- This topic has 6,282 replies, 176 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by kelvin.
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2019 General Election
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outofbreathFree MemberPosted 4 years ago
IMO, to counter faarange’s cowardly refusal to stand candidates in tory strongholds Labour need to join with the SNP/LibDem/PC/Green alliance.
Labour would lose votes because they’d be openly guilt of cowardly refusing to stand candidates in some opponents seats, as you would put it.
So your first sentence explains why the two big parties can’t to do a deal like that and why Labour have a rule specifically forbidding them from doing so.
dissonanceFull MemberPosted 4 years agoI can’t see the relevance of this to your question/my reply about which countries have privatized their trains?
Well if we are going with this sort of tedious shit. Then you failed to answer.
However since you have shown yourself repeatedly incapable of a sensible discussion (eg your failure to do anything but shout Laffer curve) I wont waste any more time on you.dissonanceFull MemberPosted 4 years agoit’s the UKIP hype phantom all over again.
A lot more profitable for Farage though.
outofbreathFree MemberPosted 4 years agowhere there is a proposal to confiscate 10% of mid to large companies shares?
Not in the UK, that’s for sure.
PrinceJohnFull MemberPosted 4 years agoWell it looks like the brexit party is falling apart at the seams
Their PPC for St. Ives, was drafted into Falmouth after that one decided against standing against the Tories so as not to split the vote, he’s now been announced as the PPC for Bristol South!?
tjagainFull MemberPosted 4 years agoPredictable resposnses
Most European countries have all their natural monopolies under state control in some form. so nationalising them only brings us back to a similar position to most.
On the share ownership thing? Again we lag far behind in workers owning part of buisnesses so a radical step is needed to bring us into a similar position to most european countries. ie back to the centre
Hard left would be nationalising without compensation. Centrist is buying back or waiting until the franchise expires and not renewing
Hard left is a planned economy, centrist is a mixed economy, hard right is unfettered markets
As for the idea I am so far left – utter ludicrous ad shows two things. The very poor understanding of what left wing means and the blinkered far right attitudes some of you have
mattyfezFull MemberPosted 4 years agoA lot more profitable for Farage though.
Well of course.. He’s never been interested in politics, just money. Look at his attendance record as an MEP.
Maybe that reality is now starting to dawn on his flock.binnersFull MemberPosted 4 years agoI bet they’re shocked to their very cores to discover that Nigel wasn’t being entirely honest with them, has put his own interests before everything and everyone else, has taken the money and the peerage, sold them all down the river and run off to count his money in the pub.
I know I certainly was
Cheers!
mattyfezFull MemberPosted 4 years agoHard left would be nationalising without compensation. Centrist is buying back or waiting until the franchise expires and not renewing
In terms of trains, just don’t renew franchises when the terms expire. Trains are an absolute disaster in the UK.
From a consumer perspective it’s rediculous to have to ponder what sort of ticket to buy, and consider split ticketing and catch a particular train from a particular company etc.
You should just be able to buy a ticket from A to B, and that’s that.lungeFull MemberPosted 4 years agoTrains are an absolute disaster in the UK
They are in parts yes. But those of us who are old enough to remember British Rail, and are prepared to take their rose tinted glasses off, will remember it was even worse back then.
molgripsFree MemberPosted 4 years agoOutofbreath – we’ve done this to death as you will remember. No-one says anything about ‘confiscating’ except you and presumably other anti-Corbynites.
dazhFull MemberPosted 4 years agoI think I’m becoming somewhat besotted with Angela Rayner. I’m now convinced she’ll be the first female labour PM, either taking over from Corbyn if he wins or at the next election if he loses. It’ll be quite a story too, an ex-nurse, teenage single mum who left school at 16 to PM.
“But the star turn was Rayner, who talked about the importance of adult education in her own life, after she left school at 16 to look after her son. Under Labour’s policy, she said, “whether you left school with no GCSEs or 10, your ability to pay or your willingness to take on debt will not determine whether you get the education you need”.
She skewered politicians’ habit of parroting the idea that vocational qualifications are as important as academic ones, or that the UK can simply copy Germany.
And she had another nice line that “poverty is not just about being penniless, it is about being powerless”, because workers often don’t have the opportunity to train.”
roneFull MemberPosted 4 years agoI reckon Farage will also back down in a week or so and announce they will not field candidates in Tory/labour marginals, on condition that Boris goes full crash out/hard Brexit
And that’s labour well and truly ****ed!
You mean in Labour marginals.
I don’t think so in all cases – at all. In fact that puts us back to 2017 really.
(And if your scenaorio plays out then it’s up to remainers to step up and Vote Labour. Which there is loads of right?
tjagainFull MemberPosted 4 years agoAm I missing something? all the polls are suggesting a lower % of the vote for the tories than in 2017. so how does this translate into a huge majority for the tories?
What am I missing?
kelvinFull MemberPosted 4 years agoA lower % of the vote for Labour.
That and the Tory vote dropping in some areas, and rising in others. Some of those areas where it is down, it has to drop a lot for seats to be lost (thanks Lord Farage for helping with that), but in some target areas they don’t need that large a local swing to win seats.
Remember, this is hundreds of individual elections, yet we, and the press, try to reduce it to national polls and swings… which doesn’t really work.
roneFull MemberPosted 4 years agoAm I missing something? all the polls are suggesting a lower % of the vote for the tories than in 2017. so how does this translate into a huge majority for the tories?
What am I missing?
You’re not. I think it’s the gulf between the two currently that has people twitching.
And the incorrect assumption yesterday that BXP being stood down in already 2017 Tory seats led to a majority. This wasn’t interpreted correctly in my opinion. I knee-jerked too.
If anything we move back to a 2017 scenario more cleanly with the Left/Leave possibly struggling to vote for Tory. Or being split between Tory and BXP. All depends on those marginals and what BXP do next I guess.
No predictions from me yet!
but in some target areas they don’t need that large a local swing to win seats.
Not being awkward but which ones? For instance here in Bassetlaw we’ve got a 5000 maj with Labour. We have BXP and a CON candidate – do you not think the leave vote will be split across those two leaving a stronger Labour majority? I’m torn. Not sure yet.
Same in neighbouring Mansfield but that changed to Tory in 2017. Add in BXP and it splits the leave vote.
anagallis_arvensisFull MemberPosted 4 years agoBut those of us who are old enough to remember British Rail, and are prepared to take their rose tinted glasses off, will remember it was even worse back then.
That trains were worse 30years ago should not be a surprise should it? After being run down by Thatcher.
GowrieFree MemberPosted 4 years agowhere there is a proposal to confiscate 10% of mid to large companies shares?
Not in the UK, that’s for sure.
So you’ve missed Labour’s proposal to put 10% of the shares all companies with more than 250 workers into the ownership of the workers?
roneFull MemberPosted 4 years agoThat trains were worse 30years ago should not be a surprise should it? After being run down by Thatcher.
That, and technology and it being thirty years ago.
mattyfezFull MemberPosted 4 years agoLots of confusing information about majorities.
It’s FPTP. The tories need circa 321 seats for a majority.
The tories will probably and up with more seats than Labour, but it will only be about 290-300 in my uneducated opinion.
That’s not enough to form a government, it’s a hung parliament.
molgripsFree MemberPosted 4 years agoThat’s not enough to form a government, it’s a hung parliament.
It’s not enough to form a government on your own. You can have coalitions and minority governments.
martinhutchFull MemberPosted 4 years agoSame in neighbouring Mansfield but that changed to Tory in 2017. Add in BXP and it splits the leave vote.
If it turned Tory in 2017 then presumably Farage isn’t fielding a candidate there?
molgripsFree MemberPosted 4 years agoSo you’ve missed Labour’s proposal to put 10% of the shares all companies with more than 250 workers into the ownership of the workers?
Nope, but I haven’t seen the proposal to confiscate them which is what some people are terrified of. It simply says ‘transfer ownership’ in all those links which will likely result in companies having to buy them back. This means that investors e.g. our pension funds will not be dispossessed, which is what many people including Outofbreath are worried about.
GowrieFree MemberPosted 4 years agoAs for the idea I am so far left – utter ludicrous ad shows two things. The very poor understanding of what left wing means and the blinkered far right attitudes some of you have
I felt it might be pointless trying to engage sensibly with you. I was right.
tjagainFull MemberPosted 4 years agoIn what way am I far left? go on please tell me ‘cos all my lefty friends disagree.
Politically I consider myself to be a dark green
martinhutchFull MemberPosted 4 years agoIt’s fortunate that Wayne Bayley still has his original cult to fall back on in these troubled times.
roneFull MemberPosted 4 years agoIf it turned Tory in 2017 then presumably Farage isn’t fielding a candidate there?
Ah – good point. Might have independent candidate trouble.
koldunFree MemberPosted 4 years agoThat, and technology and it being thirty years ago.
And the cost of keeping all those branch lines open so people could, you know, travel without a car (not that i disagree, the service was still bad).
mattyfezFull MemberPosted 4 years agoIt’s not enough to form a government on your own. You can have coalitions and minority governments.
Indeed. Who are the tories going to be able to get on board? Ten more DUP? The brexit party wants a stone cold suicidal brexit, unlikely.
An informal coalition between libs, lab, green, SNP is the way to go.
I’m not aware that a coalition has to be as draconian as the Liberal Democrats /tory coalition where they were basically forced to vote in line with tory policy, which as we all know was a disaster.The big question is, is corbyns Labour prepared to work with other parties (not tories or Bxp).
That’s the sticking point. The Labour Party need to get off thier high horse and start being cooperative.
martinhutchFull MemberPosted 4 years agoMight have independent candidate trouble.
Let’s hope so. TBH, the electorate seems so befuddled that an independent standing for anything similar sounding would probably get a hatful of votes. Anyone got a spare couple of grand?
stevextcFree MemberPosted 4 years agoAs for the idea I am so far left – utter ludicrous ad shows two things. The very poor understanding of what left wing means and the blinkered far right attitudes some of you have
How old are you?
Do you remember the 70’s ?outofbreathFree MemberPosted 4 years agoIt’s not enough to form a government on your own. You can have coalitions and minority governments.
In theory yes.
In practice nobody is going to do *any* kind of deal with the Torys without a second ref and the Torys will not agree to that. I can’t see how the Torys could function as a minority government trying to get Brexit through.
So does that mean Labour would have to take the responsibility on? I’m not sure that The Libdems or SNP would be keen on propping up a fiscally incontinent Labour party.
We might see a government that exists long enough to hold a second ref and for no other purpose. We might see more chaos.
Like everyone else I see no evidence for this 90 seat Tory majority and all the pollsters I’ve heard interviewed say the seat count literally can’t be predicted.
confiscate them which is what some people are terrified of. It simply says ‘transfer ownership’ in all those links which will likely result in companies having to buy them back.
A company being forced to buy back 10pc shares and give them to someone else *is* confiscation. There is simply no slight of hand by which you can take 10pc of something without paying and the existing owner of that thing doesn’t have either 10pc less of it or 10pc less value.
binnersFull MemberPosted 4 years agoThe big question is, is corbyns Labour prepared to work with other parties
He refuses to form a coalition with the majority of his own MP’s, so I’m guessing not.
To be fair to grandad, everyone else has been pretty belligerent in slagging everyone else off and saying they won’t work with them. Any coalition would be a fraught, fractious affair that probably wouldn’t last five minutes.
Its a horrible thought but its looking to me like we could be having an election every 6 months for the foreseeable future, while the country remains frozen in this horrible limbo and slowly eats itself
dissonanceFull MemberPosted 4 years agoThe Labour Party need to get off thier high horse and start being cooperative.
The flaw there is
Green Party doesnt really count.
SNP have made it clear they will work to some extent but it will be focussed on the aim of a referendum.
Libdems have made it clear they will not work with Corbyn and will want him replaced with someone more acceptable to them.
Cant think why Labour leadership arent thanking her for that.roneFull MemberPosted 4 years agoThing is when you search “corbyn refuses coalition with libdems” you get loads of Jo Swinson refusing coalition with Labour.
kelvinFull MemberPosted 4 years agoYeah, let’s ignore all the work Watson did with Swinson and others to try and sort some way of working together to beat the Conservative Brexit Party at an upcoming election. The way he was treated (by people inside Labour not outside it) when he tried was quite telling, no?
tjagainFull MemberPosted 4 years agosteve – I’m 58 and yes I remember the 70s. dunno whats that got to do with the ludicous assertion I am some sort of hard lefty. 70s labour were not after all
Traits of a hard left position
an elimination of all private capital, compulsory nationalisation without compensation. That sort of thing.
Look at some of the real hard left groups like Scottish socialist party, SWP, RCP. those sort of folk
Point to a sinle post I have made that supports a hard left position? Where is Ernie when you need him – hes a proper lefty! I’m just a wishy washy pale pink liberal in his eyes 🙂tjagainFull MemberPosted 4 years agoSwinson set demands she must have known that labour could not possibly agree to. No party would or could.
Its as much her fault as anyone
SNP didn’t set the same demands – that Corbyn had to go.
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