- This topic has 6,282 replies, 176 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by kelvin.
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2019 General Election
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outofbreathFree MemberPosted 4 years ago
Dunno it’s complex. With an alliance you’re effectively saying ‘our best attribute is that we’re not them’ which isn’t exactly positive campaigning.
This plus a load of other reasons which is why Labour rules prohibit it. Tories won’t do a deal with the BP and Labour won’t deal either & personally I think they’ve both got it right.
For the smaller parties it’s a good tactic though AFAIC, mind you if you won a seat because other parties stood down that leaves a really dodgy looking mandate.
To be fair to the Lib Dems Dazh, this is how elections work…You try to persuade people to vote for you.
This.
If you’re looking for parties who aren’t pulling their weight in the effort to beat the tories, it’s pretty obvious who they are.
Bollocks, without SNP and the LibDems there wouldn’t even be an election. If Labour had their way the Torys would be in Government indefinitely, or rather until after Brexit happened.
mattyfezFull MemberPosted 4 years agoNicola Sturgeon:
“If there is a hung Parliament after this election… SNP MPs would seek to form a progressive alliance to lock the Tories out of government.”
dazhFull MemberPosted 4 years agothis is how elections work…
By pubishing misleading data and outright lies in an effort to con the electorate? You’re right yes, skullduggery has always been a feature of election campaigns, and it’s certainly nothing new for the lib dems. But seen in the context of Matty’s comment that every party should be doing their best to keep the tories out, that’s clearly not what the lib dems are doing.
I’m all for politicians persuading people to vote for them. I’ve said more times than I can remember that parties should be judged on their policies, past records and their honesty. The lib dems are failing miserably on all 3 of these aspects in this campaign.
filibusterFree MemberPosted 4 years agoLooking in from afar both the cons and labour look like they are imploding….
MP quit because of anti semitic remarks.
Tory candidate quits because of rape comments.
Deputy of Labour gone…
If these people can’t seemingly run a party how are they to be trusted to run the country….
I need to register to vote as I’m out of the UK. Where does my vote go/get counted? The last place I was registered in the UK?
boomerlivesFree MemberPosted 4 years agoa complete no brainer
Except it would be against a lot of the key labour areas who had the clearest leave vote in the Ref
See previous pages ad nauseum for details
every party should be doing their best to keep the tories out
In fairness, that’s what the tories are doing and it’s working out very well for them
outofbreathFree MemberPosted 4 years ago“If there is a hung Parliament after this election… SNP MPs would seek to form a progressive alliance to lock the Tories out of government.”
Given the Tories’ profligate spending commitments are nearly as mental as Labour’s I’d welcome a coalition government lead by the SNP with a revoke policy dictated by the LibDems. (Fantasy, I know.)
Weird though, I thought the ‘threat’ of an SNP/Labour coalition was a vote loser for both.
boomerlivesFree MemberPosted 4 years agoTories profligate spending commitments
Pennies compared to the barmy Green policies!
nickcFull MemberPosted 4 years agoBy pubishing misleading data and outright lies in an effort to con the electorate?
Have you cast a critical eye over McDonald’s spending “plans” by any chance? I wouldn’t be making sweeping statements about misleading data and lies this early in the campaign. It’s not any other parties (including the one we both support) aren’t shy of telling the odd porky themselves…
CaptainFlashheartFree MemberPosted 4 years agoIn amongst all the Labour PPCs having to excuse themselves from the process, there’s this gem from LibDemLand;
Hang on, this extension of the Brexit deadline until 31 January 2020 will better not ruin my ski season. December and January are for winter sports not campaigning. Not to mention that WEF is in January as well. I am not amused.
— Beatrice Bass (@BeatriceLibDem) October 20, 2019
Won’t somebody think of the tartiflette?
dazhFull MemberPosted 4 years agoIt’s not any other parties (including the one we both support) aren’t shy of telling the odd porky themselves…
Not claiming labour are squeaky clean, they can and do play dirty to when required. There’s a big difference though between fabricating and misrepresenting poll data and overly optimistic economic forecasts.
mattyfezFull MemberPosted 4 years agoBy pubishing misleading data and outright lies in an effort to con the electorate?
Like labour you mean?
I love this graph. It’s a thing of beauty. pic.twitter.com/avaV9udfmW
— . (@twlldun) November 8, 2019
Labour have the gall to complain about LibDem bar charts.
Deliberately misleading to treat all borrowing as current currency values (a 2010 GBP is worth £1.27 in 2019 GBP; a 1997 GBP is £1.80 in 2019 GBP).
In the last 33 years there have only been 13 years of Labour government.
“All Labour governments in the past 33 years” is not the same as “33 years of Labour government”
It’s actually a way of saying “The Blair/Brown government”.
Which was only 13 years.
stevextcFree MemberPosted 4 years agoNot claiming labour are squeaky clean, they can and do play dirty to when required. There’s a big difference though between fabricating and misrepresenting poll data and overly optimistic economic forecasts.
Umm…. yeah but I don’t think in the manner in which you mean.
Who gives a toss over poll. data that is already deliberately biased according to who pays….vs fabricating economic forcasts and models… ?
“will the UK be better economically under a deal than in the EU?”
answer (sic)
“um, I’m just a shadow chancellor… we will have to ask the people”antigeeFull MemberPosted 4 years agolibuster
…..I need to register to vote as I’m out of the UK. Where does my vote go/get counted? The last place I was registered in the UK?
provided in time frame allowed yes….5 mins on line if have passport handy unless you lived in NI and that is by post only. Then have to register with the council for either post or proxy vote using an email link when app’ to vote confirmed…I currently have a postal vote but seen suggestions need to swop to proxy as local authorities havn’t got much time to post out ballot papers and probably won’t get in time to return
molgripsFree MemberPosted 4 years agoWho gives a toss over poll. data that is already deliberately biased according to who pays
Bit of an allegation that – got any evidence?
willardFull MemberPosted 4 years agoMolgrips,
If you write the questions, you can skew the results. Using phrases like “Thinking of X, do you agree that Y… ” can steer people into agreeing with the question.
http://www.charneyresearch.com/resources/the-top-10-ways-to-get-misleading-poll-results/
https://www.surveymonkey.com/mp/5-common-survey-mistakes-ruin-your-data/
Thos are just the top 2 i found.
kimbersFull MemberPosted 4 years agothe times they are-a-changing
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1192813990335975424
kimbersFull MemberPosted 4 years agoScotland, regional voting intention:
SNP: 42% (+5)
CON: 22% (-7)
LDEM: 13% (+6)
LAB: 12% (-15)
BREX: 6% (+6)
GRN: 4% (+4)via @YouGov, 23 – 25 Oct
Chgs. w/ GE2017 result— Britain Elects (@britainelects) November 8, 2019
kimbersFull MemberPosted 4 years agodouble digit falls for Labour everywhere
it doesnt matter how clueless drunken uncle Bozo rambles on about the NI border he doesnt understand
Wales, regional voting intention:
LAB: 29% (-20)
CON: 28% (-6)
BREX: 15% (+15)
LDEM: 12% (+7)
PC: 12% (+2)
GRN: 3% (+3)via @YouGov, 31 Oct – 04 Nov
Chgs. w/ GE2017 result— Britain Elects (@britainelects) November 8, 2019
molgripsFree MemberPosted 4 years agoIf you write the questions, you can skew the results. Using phrases like “Thinking of X, do you agree that Y… ” can steer people into agreeing with the question.
Of course, this is clear. But you’re saying that they deliberately choose leading questions depending on who’s paying for the poll. That’s the big claim you’ve made, where’s the evidence for that?
A good pollster would carefully choose questions that avoid this issue. You’re saying they’re all basically bent.
kimbersFull MemberPosted 4 years agoEast Midlands, regional voting intention:
CON: 45% (-6)
LAB: 22% (-19)
LDEM: 15% (+11)
BREX: 12% (+12)
GRN: 6% (+4)via @YouGov, 17 – 28 Oct
Chgs. w/ GE2017 result— Britain Elects (@britainelects) November 8, 2019
kimbersFull MemberPosted 4 years agoWest Midlands, regional voting intention:
CON: 43% (-6)
LAB: 23% (-20)
LDEM: 14% (+10)
BREX: 12% (+12)
GRN: 7% (+5)via @YouGov, 17 – 28 Oct
Chgs. w/ GE2017 result— Britain Elects (@britainelects) November 8, 2019
kimbersFull MemberPosted 4 years agoEast, regional voting intention:
CON: 45% (-10)
LAB: 17% (-16)
LDEM: 18% (+10)
BREX: 14% (+14)
GRN: 5% (+3)via @YouGov, 17 – 28 Oct
Chgs. w/ GE2017 result— Britain Elects (@britainelects) November 8, 2019
ferralsFree MemberPosted 4 years agoPretty consistetnt picture there. However, how it plays out on a constituency by constituency basis will give very different answers and also there is plenty of time for peopel to change their mind. I image at this stage people are mor elikely to say who they would like to vote for, but by the end tactical voting will com into play and they mmay vore elsewhere
sobrietyFree MemberPosted 4 years agoHow come they add up to 100%, without a column for “all others”?
For example my local MP was Labour and is now an independent, I’ll likely vote for him as I believe the two and a half party system has basically broken the design of our form of democracy, and that there should be far more independent MPs than there are, although I’ll need to look at the detailed projections in a few weeks to make sure that I’m not enabling the Tories by voting for him.
If that’s the case then I’ll hold my nose and vote for whoever isn’t a Tory who has the best chance of winning, just the thought of which is making me feel dirty inside.
outofbreathFree MemberPosted 4 years agoThanks Kimbers, “polling, carried out between 17 October and 4 November”. Really doesn’t tell us much.
roneFull MemberPosted 4 years agoThey’re all You-Gov.
You need the aggregate poll to really make sense of things.
It’s a comparison between regions back in 2017 and currently. Not last week and this week OOB. And no it’s I don’t think it correlates to spending – that after all would be a good thing.
Though it’s still interesting.
outofbreathFree MemberPosted 4 years agospending – after all would be a good thing.
Interest on debt is our 6th biggest public spending item at 39bn. Where do you think voters would like to see it? 1st? 3rd?
For a party that doesn’t like wealthy bankers it’s seems a bit odd to give them even more than the current 39bn a year – 9bn a year MORE than we spend on social services.
stevextcFree MemberPosted 4 years agoOf course, this is clear. But you’re saying that they deliberately choose leading questions depending on who’s paying for the poll. That’s the big claim you’ve made, where’s the evidence for that?
A good pollster would carefully choose questions that avoid this issue. You’re saying they’re all basically bent.
That was my post …. but I agree with willard’s reply….
Is it bent to get the answer you’re being paid for?
Dunno…. I feel its ‘more bent’ to pay for an answer than provide the answer you’re paid to deliver???stevextcFree MemberPosted 4 years agoInterest on debt is our 6th biggest public spending item at 39bn. Where do you think voters would like to see it? 1st? 3rd?
For a party that doesn’t like wealthy bankers it’s seems a bit odd to give them even more than the current 39bn a year – 9bn a year MORE than we spend on social services.
but if we spend more it increases our GDP ….surely we just need to spend more and more?
molgripsFree MemberPosted 4 years agoIs it bent to get the answer you’re being paid for?
Yes, when you’re claiming to be polling actual voting intention. I do not think they are paid to produce campaign advertising material, tbh. If so, the answers would be rather different I’d imagine, or Labour would be asking for their money back.
So, I’m on http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/swingometer/uk-parliament, and putting the latest YouGov figures (from the Guardian) into it gives a Tory majority of 30, still no Brexit party seats and only 12 LD seats.
Many of us tried to say that Labour coming off the fence for remain would damage their polling – looks like that is happening even with the 2nd ref promise.
scotroutesFull MemberPosted 4 years agoFrom that YouGov poll (so, boo) and might be out of date (boo again) but a good sample size (so, yay)
slowoldmanFull MemberPosted 4 years agoBrilliant isn’t it? Tory share of votes down, Tory seats up.
Hands up who voted against voting reform?
scotroutesFull MemberPosted 4 years agoHands up who voted against voting reform
At least 100 Labour MPs
outofbreathFree MemberPosted 4 years agobut if we spend more it increases our GDP ….surely we just need to spend more and more?
Of course, I’d forgotten that fact, thanks for the reminder. ….and that explains why every single country in the world has now become phenomenally wealthy simply by borrowing more and more in an endless virtuous cycle of debt leading to growth.
Oh, hang on…
binnersFull MemberdazhFull MemberPosted 4 years agoIf those polls above are right then all but a tiny few of us are f*****! And we’ll deserve it. Lets hope they’re wrong. Although I watched the labour rally in Manchester last night and came to the strong conclusion that Angela Rayner will be the next labour leader. That might be the only silver lining.
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