2019 General Election

  • This topic has 6,282 replies, 176 voices, and was last updated 3 weeks ago by  kelvin.
Viewing 40 posts - 921 through 960 (of 6,291 total)
  • 2019 General Election
  • no deal” as more than a possibility

    ccording to media reports, the Manifesto says a no deal brexit is no longer a possibility.

    The Tories don’t own the pollsters afaik and voting intention is heavily favouring them going in.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Why are the Tory’s ratings so high?

    A lot of the English electorate seem to have a terrible cap-doffing attitude. They seem to assume that going to Eton and Oxford and the ability to use big words in a plummy accent denotes some kind of competence, whereas even a cursory glance at the last ten years of ineptitude and chaos prove the opposite

    This government has also been extremely lucky in it’s (useless) opposition. Just ask anyone who listened to Dianne Abbots car crash of an interview on the Today programme last week

    Premier Icon rone
    Subscriber

    Just pulling up an objectively ‘car-crash’ interview doesn’t make them a useless opposition.

    Far from.

    I think it’s more the fact that the tact of mainstream interviewing and lack of proper journalism doesn’t really do anything other than force politicians into polarised scenarios. This then gets repeated scant of facts as it tumbles out of proportion and often into forced contradiction (The news is often guilty of encouraging drama and conflict for ratings I believe.)

    For instance:

    Sophie Ridge’s ‘infamous’ interview with Corbyn – where is he asked to condemn the IRA (you know the murderers we don’t like) – 5/6 times. He clearly says “I condemn the loyalists and the IRA” – in the film. But the majority of the MSM reported the interview as he refused to condemn them. This then gets repeated over and over until the public think it’s true.

    That’s not journalism in any way shape or form. It’s flat out lies.

    Truth:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2017/05/no-jeremy-corbyn-did-not-refuse-condemn-ira-please-stop-saying-he-did

    Then for instance how the potential policy of integrating Independent schools was reported as banning/shutting/seizing independent schools. Same with the seizing of property (houses) – I can’t find anything to support this other than Council’s having the power to charge higher Council Tax to houses left empty for a long time. Etc.

    So whilst MPs do cock up in interviews it’s actually the echo chamber that tends to move away from the facts of the interview/policy/personality that causes the problem.

    I’m not saying they don’t have problems (some people just aren’t great with media training) but it’s also worth getting beneath the veneer rather than using an interview as a yard stick.

    (I pulled the Telegraph interview from my post – I decided I don’t want to give it attention.)

    tjagain
    Member

    Cromolly – its the fact the tories and their friends own most of the UK media or have it so cowed ( the BBC) that they repeat the propaganda.

    Its a relentless push of propaganda like that bit from the Telegraph that makes folk vote tory. Just look how many folk on here believe the lies about labour?

    tjagain

    Member

    Why is tory support so high? When yo have control of almost all the media its easy to boost support for your party. Its about propaganda.

    I don’t think Tory support is anything like the polls suggest.

    This said, the reason the Tories are not doing worse is because many swing voters think that Corbyn would be a disaster. I really don’t want a Tory government, as I’m a staunch remainer, but, as a business owner I have real worries about the sort of mad stuff that a Momentum-driven Labour government would implement. There are lots of people like me who have similar worries.

    JP

    tjagain
    Member

    Cromolly – no deal is still a possibility as Johnson will not rule it out and insists that the transition period wuill not be extended – but there is not enough time to make a deal in the time left on the transition period. so no deal it is.

    tjagain
    Member

    JP

    Momenteum does not drive labour – thats one of the tory press lies

    What sort of thing are you afraid of? I bet its again tory lies

    I completely accept that the Murdoch effect is a real thing – that if you get his backing through the media, you are 8/10ths of the way in. Plus Corbyn is a Marmite leader.
    There is a large block of older, private pension, house owners from when houses were affordable, who are sitting fairly pretty and who will vote Tory despite the fact that the Tories have gutted the NHS, are threatening the supply of Nurses and Attendant care worker s through immigration cuts.
    The very thing those older voters use in much higher proportions than anyone else. So the turkeys are voting for Christmas. It makes no sense.

    Plus young people are slowly but surely going to become the largest single voting demographic, taking over from pensioners and I can’t see them going Tory, after everything they’ve done to them. Yet they look to be going for a majority.

    Polls also show Brexit is bit the biggest feature of the GE for voters and yet the Tories lead.

    no deal is still a possibility as Johnson will not rule it out

    While BoJo doesn’t even have a passing relationship with the truth and Manifestos arent truly binding, he has apparently stated in it that there will be no no deal brexit under the Tories.

    JP

    Momenteum does not drive labour – thats one of the tory press lies

    What sort of thing are you afraid of? I bet its again tory lies

    OK – let’s give you a couple (there are plenty): my wife is the registrar of an independent school. Labour have already said that they plan to make life hard for this type of school. Regardless of how far they take this, with the exception of a few of the more famous schools, most public schools aren’t rolling in money, and even small changes, such as those to their charitable status, would have disastrous consequences.

    Labour also plans to raise corporation tax significantly, which is moronic. Most small businesses are not rolling in money, and suddenly having to give an extra 7% to HMRC could easily make them non-viable.

    JP

    Labour have already said that they plan to make life hard for independent school. Regardless of how far they take this, with the exception of a few of the more famous schools, most public schools aren’t rolling in money, and even small changes, such as those to their charitable status, would have disastrous consequences.

    In what way? Will there be large groups of kids with no schools to go to, or will those schools be government funded? If the “charities” behind schools can pay grotesque amounts to the people running them while doing the bare minimum and sometimes not even that to qualify as a charity, except on paper, is putting them out of business such a bad thing? Let’s at least agree that under the Tories schools have become commodities and made profits in various ways for the people operating them and that that is a bad thing for education.

    tjagain
    Member

    On the independent schools – its high time they paid their way – all they have to do if costs increase and they lose their mostly undeserved charitable status is to put the fees up. I would also make them pay the government for the training of the teachers they take out of the general pool

    corporation tax? IIRC they did state there would be transitional help for small businesses – and of course staying in the EU will be a huge boon for small businesses.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    of course staying in the EU will be a huge boon for small businesses

    True. Is that Labour policy now?

    Just has my first red leaflet through the door, and it doesn’t mention the EU or Brexit once.

    tjagain
    Member

    Once again. Labour policy is a second referendum in all cases. If they have the opportunity they will seek a deal with a much closer relationship with the EU and put that to a referendum.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    So, it’s not Labour policy to stay in the EU, despite that being a “boon for small businesses”?

    I mean, I’m voting Labour, but what are they really offering to win over the small business owner, and their employees, worried about rising taxes (which I support and think are necessary) under a Labour government? Throwing them a bigger bone as regards staying in the EU would be welcome, wouldn’t it.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Here’s a question

    If the Brexit Party is essentially not a political party, but a business, and now the man-frog isn’t standing himself but is more a CEO, do the rules around election expenditure etc apply to him?

    Or can he just go out there and say what he likes, without proper legal scrutiny, like they did in the referendum as he wasn’t heading the official leave campaign?

    Looks like they could be an absolute nightmare for the Tory’s. Having Farage out there banging on and on about ‘Boris’s surrender bill’

    There’s a certain delicious irony in Dom and Dommer, having used Farage and Banks and co as unofficial outriders during the referendum campaign, now being on the receiving end of their same dodgy practices

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    jjprestidge

    Member

    Labour also plans to raise corporation tax significantly, which is moronic. Most small businesses are not rolling in money

    Most small businesses don’t pay corporation tax

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    According to media reports, the Manifesto says a no deal brexit is no longer a possibility.

    Are manifestos published yet?

    tjagain

    Member

    On the independent schools – its high time they paid their way – all they have to do if costs increase and they lose their mostly undeserved charitable status is to put the fees up. I would also make them pay the government for the training of the teachers they take out of the general pool

    corporation tax? IIRC they did state there would be transitional help for small businesses – and of course staying in the EU will be a huge boon for small businesses.

    Sorry, but your answers show complete ignorance about the financial implications of both of these policies.

    I really don’t think you have any understanding of how independent schools operate. They can’t simply increase their fees because they will experience significantly decreased demand. Most independent schools aren’t busting at the seams with billionaire’s kids; the majority of students are from relatively modest backgrounds, so even small fee increases would result in many parents transferring their kids to the state sector. I think that you and the other class warriors on here are conflating Eton and the sector.

    As for corporation tax, your reply is a complete joke. I don’t want some pathetic transition help, followed by a massive hike in what I’m paying in corp tax – I want an environment that encourages entrepreneurs, not discourages them.

    This is the first time in my 27 years of voting that I will not even consider voting for Labour. I don’t want that to be the case.

    JP

    Northwind

    Subscriber

    jjprestidge

    Member

    Labour also plans to raise corporation tax significantly, which is moronic. Most small businesses are not rolling in money

    Most small businesses don’t pay corporation tax

    Source? Otherwise I’m calling that out as BS (knowing what we pay in corp tax as a business with 3 employees).

    JP

    kiksy
    Member

    jjprestidge

    Member

    Labour also plans to raise corporation tax significantly, which is moronic. Most small businesses are not rolling in money

    They are suggesting an increase to 26%

    Uk corp tax

    This is still lower than a decade ago.

    It’s still far lower than it was under Thatcher.

    These really aren’t radical policies.

    In what way? Will there be large groups of kids with no schools to go to, or will those schools be government funded? If the “charities” behind schools can pay grotesque amounts to the people running them while doing the bare minimum and sometimes not even that to qualify as a charity, except on paper, is putting them out of business such a bad thing? Let’s at least agree that under the Tories schools have become commodities and made profits in various ways for the people operating them and that that is a bad thing for education.

    Do you have any experience of the independent sector or are you just basing your opinions on what you read in the Socialist Worker?

    JP

    jjprestidge

    Member

    Labour also plans to raise corporation tax significantly, which is moronic. Most small businesses are not rolling in money

    They are suggesting an increase to 26%

    This is still lower than a decade ago.

    It’s still far lower than it was under Thatcher.

    These really aren’t radical policies.

    Not radical but still moronic. Have you ever thought what would happen to profits if corporation tax were reduced?

    JP

    kiksy
    Member

    Not radical but still moronic. Have you ever thought what would happen to profits if corporation tax were reduced?

    I don’t need to imagine, i can remember back to 2005 when it was 30%

    The sky did not fall.

    Do you have any experience of the independent sector or are you just basing your opinions on what you read in the Socialist Worker?

    Do you or are you basing everything on what your wife tells you based on her sample of …… One?

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    jjprestidge

    Member

    Source? Otherwise I’m calling that out as BS (knowing what we pay in corp tax as a business with 3 employees).

    Simple enough, 2/3ds of all small and medium sized businesses are sole traders or partnerships, neither pay corporation tax.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/746599/OFFICIAL_SENSITIVE_-_BPE_2018_-_statistical_release_FINAL_FINAL.pdf

    Have you ever thought what would happen to profits if corporation tax were reduced?

    They would avoid being taxed, just as they are now. Low tax regimes reward low productivity sectors. They don’t help anyone, no matter what corporate mouthpieces say.

    OK – let’s give you a couple (there are plenty): my wife is the registrar of an independent school. Labour have already said that they plan to make life hard for this type of school. Regardless of how far they take this, with the exception of a few of the more famous schools, most public schools aren’t rolling in money, and even small changes, such as those to their charitable status, would have disastrous consequences.

    Yeah, there are/were three private schools I’m aware of in my area. One went bust two years ago, the other two were hoping to pick up more pupils over that – neither did and both made redundancies this summer and last.

    People can say “Good, they should all close” but these jobs are that rare and precious thing – service jobs that can’t be outsourced to Romania or China. Plus the amount of trades work keeping these old buildings up and running. Plus the kids of staff get seriously discounted education which saves the state money.

    Doing provide employment and educate children at no cost to the state seems unwise to me.

    Labour also plans to raise corporation tax significantly, which is moronic. Most small businesses are not rolling in money

    ….and it’s really easy to headquarter elsewhere and avoid it all together. Often you need two or three FTEs in the country and to hold board meetings locally. Just pick somewhere Easyjet serves for day trips for monthly board meetings, make three UK admin staff redundant and hire three in your new HQ country and you’re done. The rest of your business remains totally unaffected. On the industrial estate I work on about half the firms are headquartered abroad now. These aren’t blue chip companies, just SMEs nobody’s every heard of. Countries didn’t need competitive tax rates in 1950. They do now.

    Not that many people will be looking past Labour’s Brexit policy and compared to that omnishambles reducing white collar jobs in education and chasing companies abroad seems small beer.

    People can say “Good, they should all close” but these jobs are that rare and precious thing – service jobs that can’t be outsourced to Romania or China.

    The kids needing an education wouldn’t just disappear, though. They’d still need schools and teachers. So the jobs wouldn’t disappear, they’d just change employer from independent to state.

    This is still lower than a decade ago.

    It’s still far lower than it was under Thatcher.

    These really aren’t radical policies.

    Raising Corporation tax when everyone else is busy lowering it seems pretty radical to me. If you were an ice cream seller and you and all the other ice cream sellers have been dropping their prices for 15 years raising yours to levels from 10 years back strikes me as bit of a bold move!

    In “A Journey” Tony Blair writes about Corporation Tax and the importance of keeping it competitive. It was completely un-competitive in the UK up to around 2008 while everyone else was slashing theirs.

    The kids needing an education wouldn’t just disappear, though. They’d still need schools and teachers. So the jobs wouldn’t disappear, they’d just change employer from independent to state.

    Assuming the state sector employs as many people per pupil as the private sector then yes. …that also assumes that every single privately educated kid will transfer to a state school overnight. In my area that will probably be the case but wealthier kids and boarders will just end up in international schools abroad so they will be lost to the sector all together.

    Of course those jobs that remain will now be funded by you and I rather than the parents. Not every voter will be wildly enthusiastic about that.

    kiksy
    Member

    If you were an ice cream seller and you and all the other ice cream sellers have been dropping their prices for 15 years raising yours to levels from 10 years back strikes me as bit of a bold move!

    It’s not as simple as this though is it?

    Funds from corporation tax are then reinvested back into the country in many ways, such as transport/infrastructure (to move your ice creams to the customer), education (so people have the talent to create better ice creams than your competitor), income support (to enable you to have as many customers as possible) and healthcare (to ensue both the ice cream staff and customers are fit and well to work and buy)

    By the logic that lower is better, then 0 is best. This tax deficit would need to be balanced elsewhere.

    If you were an ice cream seller and you and all the other ice cream sellers have been dropping their prices for 15 years raising yours to levels from 10 years back strikes me as bit of a bold move!

    It’s not as simple as this though is it?

    I suspect it is. If the market rate has dropped for 15 years in a row, raising you prices is radical. Might turn out to be correct but it’s still radical.

    tjagain
    Member

    Sorry JP but the private schools one you will never get me to agree. Its nothing about class war. Its simply that I see no reason why the general taxpayer should make such huge subsidies to private schools when this damages everyone!

    However this has been done to death on here. Lets leave it as that.

    kiksy
    Member

    I suspect it is. If the market rate has dropped for 15 years in a row, raising you prices is radical. Might turn out to be correct but it’s still radical.

    You kind of ignored my second paragraph.

    If the market rate for ice creams has dropped, but you produce the best ice creams and can deliver them faster than the competition, you can still have more customer appeal.

    Companies do not work in a vacuum. They rely on society and infrastructure around them. This is all influenced by governments ability to invest in them.

    tjagain
    Member

    Of course those jobs that remain will now be funded by you and I rather than the parents. Not every voter will be wildly enthusiastic about that.

    Errmmm – we funded the training of those teachers and they are lost to the general public so we get those assets back and also we are no longer paying a huge subsidy to those private schools so overall it will cost the general taxpayer very little

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Most small businesses are not rolling in money, and suddenly having to give an extra 7% to HMRC could easily make them non-viable.

    Why do you assume they would suddenly slam the rates up with no cushioning at all?

    And corporation tax is paid on profit as I’m sure you know. Are you really making that much profit? If you are paying wages for you and your staff then you wouldn’t be affected. Likewise if you are reinvesting in your business.

    If on the other hand you are making profit and paying yourself bonuses and dividends then you will be affected. But this is a tax dodge for small businesses isn’t it?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    You can look at the front benches of both main party’s and safely assume that not a single one of them has the first ****ing clue how business actually operates

    If the market rate for ice creams has dropped, but you produce the best ice creams and can deliver them faster than the competition, you can still have more customer appeal.

    Companies do not work in a vacuum. They rely on society and infrastructure around them.

    They rely on the society and infrastructure around the places their operations are. When we’re talking about corporation tax we’re just talking about where the company chooses to put its HQ and pay its corporation tax. They only need an address, 2/3 FTEs there, an airport and somewhere to have a board meeting once a month. When it comes to where you pay corporation tax I fear ice cream is (unfortunately) a commodity that carries little premium for quality. Anyway, lets hope all the other countries have it wrong and reverting Corporation Tax to previous levels turns out to be a masterstroke all the other countries failed to spot.

    overall it will cost the general taxpayer very little

    We don’t need to use terms like ‘little’ we can quantify it. It’ll cost the tax payer 4-6k per additional state school pupil per year forever, plus whatever up front fixed costs are re-required. Fixed costs: Remember how easy it was to nationalise railways because the stock and infrastructure was so knackered that the owners couldn’t wait to get rid of it an dump the nightmare of modernising on the state? I suspect private schools are the same. The private sector has a ton of completely unsuitable (often listed) decrepit buildings that are crippling to to maintain or replace. Often out in the sticks. I’m not sure the state really wants to take this problem on.

    Premier Icon grahamt1980
    Subscriber

    Tory candidate wrote people on Benefits Street should be ‘put down’

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/03/tory-candidate-francesca-obrien-wrote-people-benefits-street-should-be-put-down?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

    Tory candidate in an area of high benefit usage……. Dumbass

Viewing 40 posts - 921 through 960 (of 6,291 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.