2019 General Election

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  • 2019 General Election
  • yiman
    Member

    The result of the 2017 election has been implemented,

    Has it? Have the Tories delivered all their election promises already? The “winning” party is the means, not the end.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    Jess Phillips, unfortunately, is only generally interested in the prospects of Jess Phillips.

    S’ok, if binners et al get what they want she’ll soon have plenty of time to develop her career as a celebrity. Strictly Come Dancing are probably on the phone as we speak.

    soobalias
    Member

    the amendment for 16+, EU citizens and troll votes was narrowly rejected

    Jess Phillips – There will be an onslaught of money, from who knows where, coming into the country to fund propaganda during our election.. our electoral laws are not fit for purpose & we are about to see foreign funding flood into our system

    I really rate Jess Phillips and I’d agree we need to end private funding of political parties – the state needs to do it.

    Having said that, if she’s saying the Tory party are at an advantage in campaigning terms due to funds she’s wrong. AFAIK the Tory party is broke – in debt IIRC. (Google’s not helping me with the figures.) Plus, crucially, the Tory party have a dearth of activists. The other parties have activist coming out of their ears. They’re not running a good well funded campaign their entire lead in the Polls is due to an utterly crap Labour leader. Which they can’t be blamed for!

    Mind you what else can she say to excuse the current polls? It wouldn’t be a good look if she’d said: “If I’d won instead of getting 4pc we’d be on the verge of a landslide right now”.

    Not really true, unless you simply mean there are fewer safe seats than before.

    Forgive my hyperbole, but yeah, I’m saying a large number of seats that look safe might not be because Brexit and for the reasons stated on the media and in these threads. …and yeah, that could be all of them. A 75pc majority means nothing if *all* the people who voted for you last time are Leavers, and your party is Remain or uncertain. (and vice-versa.)

    robdixon
    Member

    On the Jess Philips comments – weren’t we repeatedly told by Labour that dodgy foreign money had funded Brexit via Arron Banks – only for an investigation by the National Crime Agency to find there was zero evidence?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/24/no-evidence-leave-eu-and-arron-banks-broke-law-says-agency-brexit

    chewkw
    Member

    Without wishing to be rude, are you even eligible to vote in the UK?

    Yes. 😀

    His internet persona probably isn’t but he himself almost certainly is.

    taxi25
    Member

    Has it? Have the Tories delivered all their election promises already? The “winning” party is the means, not the end.

    Does any party ever ? Manifestos are statements of intent nothing more.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    Does any party ever ? Manifestos are statements of intent nothing more.

    Like a referendum?

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Phillips and Lucas made contributions in the house today that are both worth watching. And they’re both right.

    Been speaking to people locally today who I thought might hold their noses and vote Labour to change our MP… and for now it’s a strong, “I can’t for Corbyn, it has to be LibDem”. Hmm…

    Labour might well have pushed voters away at the local and European elections expecting them to come running back at a General Election (which describes me I suppose) but looks like it’s going to be tough.

    bigrich
    Member

    Like a referendum?

    democracy is apparently having vote after vote until the result agrees with the goal of the leader.

    very periclean.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Is that why we are having another vote in December then Rich?

    Does any party ever ? Manifestos are statements of intent nothing more.

    …and they didn’t win the election, they just lost slightly less than the others.

    All comes out in the wash though, parties that fail to fulfil their promises usually get punished in elections.

    Like a referendum?

    IMHO referendums mean nothing, it’s an opinion poll. IMHO a manifesto means little but means more because a party is actually held to account over their manifesto in the following election. A referendum means nothing and has nobody with any responsibility for carrying it out. Added to that over Brexit there’s a 50/50 split so a referendum is a coin flip – you could hold weekly referendums and get a different result according to what’s in the news that day.

    now it’s a strong, “I can’t for Corbyn, it has to be LibDem”.

    GOOD. The Libdems are a rallying point for remainers, and the leave vote is split.

    chewkw

    The only chance to get Brexit is to “drain the swamp”, hopefully with No Deal, then start again. i.e. get out with No Deal then after that the politicians can argue amongst themselves until their face turn blue.

    A stunning piece of political insight there. Please enlighten us further with your great and unmatched wisdom.

    JP

    mattyfez
    Member

    I can’t say I’m liking the idea of a general election, it’s only fair that the Conservatives should own the mess of their own creation, it seems like it’s passing the buck.

    That said, I’m pretty sure there will be some musical chairs going on but it will ultimately result in a hung parliament so where does that leave us? We’ll right back where we are now to be honest. Parliamentary paralysis.

    I can only hope that the tories and Labour lose seats to the libs, SNP and the brexit party to further level the field.

    If there’s ever been an argument for PR it’s this.

    But.. Maybe it’s not a bad thing, we won’t have PR any time soon so it might force the children in Westminster to play nicely and share the toys, and form agreements, maybe not formal coalitions but sensible adult cooperation for the good of the country, something we seem to be lacking.

    taxi25
    Member

    IMHO referendums mean nothing, it’s an opinion poll.

    I’m sure this has been covered many times but it really isn’t, not when it’s presented as a clear choice with the main parties agreeing to implement the result.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Only one party produced that leaflet, and they’ve long since got rid of those that produced it. There is a thread about all that.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    GOOD. The Libdems are a rallying point for remainers, and the leave vote is split.

    In a seat where the tories beat labour by 600 votes, 700 people voted green and 1900 lib dem. Yes of course, people should vote for the lib dems if they don’t want brexit. If remainers vote for the lib dems in Calderdale and get Whittaker (one of the most odious tories in the country) then they deserve everything they get.

    mattyfez
    Member

    Been speaking to people locally today who I thought might hold their noses and vote Labour to change our MP… and for now it’s a strong, “I can’t for Corbyn, it has to be LibDem”. Hmm…

    This is the danger..
    Assuming you’re in the same area as me,
    The 2017 GE results were..

    Tory 26790 votes
    Labour 26181 votes
    Lib. 1952 votes

    footflaps
    Member

    now it’s a strong, “I can’t for Corbyn, it has to be LibDem”.

    I would like to think this would be the case nationwide, but there are still many who think JC is the Messiah and will take us all to the promised land (possibly a hard Brexit antisemitic wasteland).

    Interestingly in the latest poll, Cambridge looks tipped to return to Libdem after a brief stint being Labour. Zero chance of the Tories getting in.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    If remainers vote for the lib dems in Calderdale and get Whittaker (one of the most odious tories in the country) then they deserve everything they get.

    In those circumstances, why would people still not want to vote Labour? We need to think about that, and address it, rather than telling them that they ‘deserve what they get’. Perhaps slagging of those Labour MPs they might approve of might not be the best way of making Labour look broad enough to appeal to people concerned about some of the key people in the party that they don’t trust. Just an idea. The Labour vote needs to grow, fast.

    This is the danger..

    It is very worrying. We’ll see what’s planned to turn this around once the campaign proper starts. There’s lots to do. It’s going to require something ingenious now… no time for a long slow process of winning back the trust of voters… it needs something very convincing. No idea what.

    chewkw
    Member

    GOOD. The Libdems are a rallying point for remainers, and the leave vote is split.

    I don’t mind Libdems winning the next GE because their agenda is very clear which is to revoke Brexit.

    If they win then power to them but it will be interesting to see how they govern.

    taxi25
    Member

    Only one party produced that leaflet, and they’ve long since got rid of those that produced it

    Yes a Conservative government which we still have, and one that has never considered the referendum an opinion poll. Neither has the Labour party. This is the only point I’m trying to make on this.

    Negotiating Brexit

    Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first.

    2017 labour manifesto.

    Negotiating Brexit

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    In those circumstances, why would people still not want to vote Labour?

    I dunno, stupidity?

    Seriously though, stop overthinking it. People will vote as they mostly always do. Some will think about it, the remainers among them have a very simple decision, so it shouldn’t be hard. If they vote against their interests then they’ll get what they vote for. That’s the way this works.

    Now, on another subject, there’s already a theme developing in this campaign. The tories and libdems are talking about brexit, labour are talking about the economy, health, schools and other things people have always cared about. This will come down to how obsessed/interested/bothered people are about brexit. I think that could be good for labour.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first.

    Take this to the other thread and try and ask people to try and make sense of that sentence there. It has so many possible meanings it could eat this thread.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    People will vote as they mostly always do.

    Wakey wakey!

    Labour 2017 voters deserted them for other parties in the 2019 elections so far.

    mattyfez
    Member

    Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first.

    #Hashtag bus facts.

    That’s why Labour are untrustworthy, you can’t brexit and put the national interest first.
    Two diametrically opposed statements in the same sentence.

    Spun up like some fairground candyfloss.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    Now, on another subject, there’s already a theme developing in this campaign. The tories and libdems are talking about brexit, labour are talking about the economy, health, schools and other things people have always cared about. This will come down to how obsessed/interested/bothered people are about brexit. I think that could be good for labour.

    How much non brexit legislation have the Tories or through in the last 3.5 years?

    How much non brexit legislation will any government get through over the next decade as we try to negotiate the far trickier & more complex future relationship ?

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    Labour 2017 voters deserted them for other parties in the 2019 elections so far.

    Are you seriously expecting people to vote the same way in a general election as the euros? When have they ever done that before? I’m not saying it won’t happen, but it would be pretty stupid for labour to base a campaign on that when it’s never happened before.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    And so it begins

    Quite a slick video

    I’m seeing youth vote

    The tories and libdems are talking about brexit, labour are talking about the economy, health, schools and other things

    Yup, ignoring the issue that currently eclipses all others is not really a recipe for electoral success. Voters are well aware than Leaving/Remaining will have far more of an impact on “economy, health, schools and other things” than any other factor over a far long period of time.

    This will come down to how obsessed/interested/bothered people are about brexit.

    We already know that. We’ve been polarised and it’s the biggest issue by a country mile. It’s such a monster issue normal electoral predictions may no longer work.

    taxi25
    Member

     you can’t brexit and put the national interest first.
    Two diametrically opposed statements in the same sentence.

    It makes sense if you accept the referendum result and brexit as a given. You then negotiate to give the country the best possible outcome within those parameters.
    But Kelvin is right, this is drifting away from the election thread into the brexit thread.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    but it would be pretty stupid for labour to base a campaign on that when it’s never happened before.

    If the Labour campaign isn’t trying to win back voters who switched to other parties at the local and European elections this year, it’s already over.

    I’m seeing youth vote

    Because what the kids really want is a coin flip in which heads is Brexit. 😀

    But Kelvin is right, this is drifting away from the election thread into the brexit thread.

    Fair point, but all current political threads come down to Brexit – you certainly can’t discuss the election without discussing the key issue.

    mattyfez
    Member

    This is why a general election is a bad idea, there’s only one, dominant issue at the moment, we’ve not had a functional government for about 3 years now.

    The general election will be voted on a for or against brexit basis.

    And we’ll still probably have a hung parliament so back to square one.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Pretty much what Phillips and Lucas said in parliament today. Watch their clips if you get a chance.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    Phillips had the best line of the day about it too

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