6 weeks or so ago I was of the opinion that a more centrist, likable leader would of walked this election for Labour, but now I’m not so sure.

This idea of a centrist cleaning up seems to be an unshakable belief, but where’s the evidence for it? Both Labour and the Tories had abandoned the centre ground by 2017, yet cleaned up something like 80% of the vote between them. Fast-forward to 2019 and we see the TINGers polling at zero, and the Lib Dems failing to make any significant headway.

Both Labour and the Tories had abandoned the centre ground by 2017, yet cleaned up something like 80% of the vote between them. Fast-forward to 2019 and we see the TINGers polling at zero, and the Lib Dems failing to make any significant headway.

FPTP voting means most people have to gravitate to the two big parties. In the past people could claim that it made them too similar as they chased the “centre” voters (it was never true, there were always major differences), but there’s a new game in town… and anyone who watched USA politics from the tea party onwards knew it was coming in some respect… the right have been purifying… but the big surprise here is the left can use similar tactics… knowing that the toxicity of the Tory brand will help them keep a big chunk of the “centre” voters onside (although it was never going to be enough of them to get a majority of seats).

Who are the “Blairites” you refer to?

People want those things. Corbyn has other qualities and history as well though. To pretend otherwise is just cultish blindness.

To be fair to Diane every other Labour MP had already been in the cabinet and resigned. She was the only one available (and one of the tiny few not to back the motion of no confidence).

Oh, let’s not lose sight of what Johnson will turn this country into.

He

Stopped

the UK is going to elect a lying selfish shit because the UK is full of lying selfish shits.

a typical UK lie

the reality

What policies could a centre-left Labour party possibly offer to a remainer Conservative to get them to switch?

There surely can’t be all that many remainer Conservatives left, can there?

Who knew? 🙂

The point I’m making is Corbyn got a similar percentage of the vote as Blair in 2001 and 5% more in 2005.

The fact that those votes weren’t in the correct seats is vital, but to make out 2017 was this disastrous landslide and Corbyn was unpopular isn’t really true is it? He was roughly on pre Iraq Blair levels, and then more popular than post Iraq Blair.

You’re ignoring the quality of the opponent.

No it can’t. It’s a lib/lab marginal, the clue is in the name.

Ok I should have typed more carefully. It can help get Tories into no 10.

Not this time. The Libdems will only work with Labour not with the Torys and I suspect they’ll want to stay away from power all together after last time. Nobody thanks you for being in govenrment – the small partys get crucified. (The SNP will work with Labour but that’s only in exchange for a legally binding Indyref after which they hope the won’t need Westminster votes any more.)

So neither have the qualities needed to be leader yet one is far ahead. How do you explain that?

A lot of it is down his clever use of dog-whistle racism, his ‘get Brexit done’ bullshit which has seen off the Brexit party, Dominic Cummings evil but effective Cambridge Analytica style social media policy and unfortunately a lot of it is down to the frankly cringeworthy trait of people in this country to defer to people with posh accents who can drop the odd latin phrase into conversation. Then theres the whole ‘loveable rogue’ shtick which I can’t believe people haven’t seen through, but yet still seems to work

Even if Labour had a leader who was seen as a better leader do you think they would be beating Boris?

Yep! I reckon if someone like Kier Starmer was at the helm, they’d be walking it!

So neither have the qualities needed to be leader yet one is far ahead. How do you explain that?

1) Boris has adopted a leave policy. 2) Labours Manifesto.

1) Boris has adopted a leave policy. 2) Labours Manifesto.

I’ll wager that most people voting, on either side of the argument, won’t have the faintest clue what’s in Labour’s manifesto. Of those who do, the ones who like Labour will be happy and the ones who don’t will simply dismiss it all as lies. Because of the reason eloquently explained in the post directly above yours.

Parties aren’t so much pushing manifestos as dragging them on a long rope. In the wake of the referendum no-one cares any more. The electorate has spent the time since then being bombarded with a battery of lies and the only tool they’ve been given to process all this is “project fear,” which means that people can simply hand-wave anything they don’t like and dismiss it as fake news. It no longer matters what anyone says because no-one is really listening any more.

That presumably then is how we get the conflicted “remain Conservative” and “leave Labour” people mentioned earlier. Why are they voting Lab/Con? Policies? Brexit? Corbyn? No, they’re doing it because they always have and that’s what they do.

30% intending to vote for Corbyn is testament to this.

They aren’t voting for Corbyn. They’re voting for their local MP.

Huh, QED.

I see Boris is talking about looking at ending the BBC tax.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

That will have a greater negative impact on my live than Brexit. 🙁

Hopefully he’s just saying that to get the Murdoch Press onside.

geez he only had to show some empathy, central office must be apoplectic !

Nothing to do with Boris. It’s about Corbyn. Vote for anyone who isn’t Corbyn.
Otherwise you’ll be sleeping on the floor with everyone else, after eating your pets.

No, they’re doing it because they always have and that’s what they do.

Actual conversation this weekend.

I paraphrase.

“My father was a Tory man. I’ll vote for who I’ve always voted for. Labour just spend spend and spend! The EU man, he has liquid lunches, he’s obviously evil, I’m not sending him money.”

But, good old wandering hands cocaine vodka on the cornflakes Johnson, he’s ok is he? because he’s Tory? Who spent more out of the last two governments then? Oh, the Tories. No, that wasn’t “because they were fixing Labours mistakes” like the righteous newspaper told you.

“The liberal democrats are a contradiction because most people voted brexit so how is planning to stop brexit democratic you tell me that?”

Er, I dunno, because democracy is about making decisions through public vote? Don’t we change government every five years? Is that democratic? Are you being forced to vote Lib Dem, with your democratic vote? or could you vote for the shower in power should you so desire?

“What you’re forgetting is that for a lot of people the war is personal and we just can’t work with these people. The Torys are doing the right thing by leaving the EU.”

I despair, I really do. It was eighty firking years ago. People actually fought for peace across Europe. The actual stated goal of close trade links as set up by the EU.

Other flimsy regurgitated crap genuinely included britain being better than europe because we’re special at everything because we’re better than europe and won the war, immigrants stealing the benefits, something something bananas something silly EU rules, Torys saving the NHS (actual WTF), Corbyn wants to nationalise everything, Corbyn is a marxist, Corbyn is a socialist.

It was like speaking with an animated copy of the Telegraph. Supremely depressing, really.

The real depressing fact was that after this conversation, it will be rationalised away with “he’s got that from the Guardian, it’s all rubbish” or some similar cognitive dissonance banishing excuse.