2017 XC Racing Thread

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  • 2017 XC Racing Thread
  • steve_b77
    Member

    molgrips – Member
    So Rons are a bit chunkier than Ralphs in terms of tread, and slightly better in mud?

    Thinking I want all-rouders I can leave on – I can’t be arsed messing around with tyres any more.

    Vittoria Barzo TNT’s are where it’s at for all rounders, if you want faster (within 0.6w of RaRa) then the Mezcal G+ are great too.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
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    I’ve got rocket rons on at the moment, will be switching the rear to a racing Ralph soon

    You know Ron’s have a lower rolling resistance under 35psi don’t you? Google the rolling resistance review.

    ferrals
    Member

    I’m not convinced by that review, I guess too many variables to be sure. Normally run rons at 18psi front and 20-22psi rear. Put ralphs on when dryer and run at 22-25psi. Ralphs at 25psi definately feel faster on hardpack than rons. Also I use snakeskin tubeless easy and I think the carcasses are more similar then.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
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    Why tyre pressures are people using? I’m religiously sticking to 30R 28F tubeless Rons, nervous of change/being slower, but wondering whether I’m missing out on grip/confidence.

    ?

    windyg
    Member

    22-23F with a Ron 24R with a Ralph, i’ve gone as low as 17 before but the tyre moved about too much for my liking. 28 and 30 is quite high for tubeless.

    Premier Icon everyone
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    I use ~21 F Ron, ~24 R Ralph. I do only weigh 66/67kg though.

    Surely it’s dependant on tyre width as well? 2.25 front, 2.1 rear (that’s what you get from a frame designed by americans…)

    steve_b77
    Member

    First xc race entered of the year done and dusted, Cannock Winter Classic in Fat Bike class, pretty happy with 5th considering it was very muddy and grip on JJ’s is at a premium in mud.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
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    First race today.

    Basically went: great start, stitch 2nd lap, fade. From 6th to 21st in 90 minutes. Club mate that hasn’t slept for 3 months (baby) came 8th and will be gridded in front of me.

    Shit. I might take up knitting.

    wheely
    Member

    Anyone race XC Soggy Bottom at newnham today ??
    First race with my Scalpel and it rode excellent. 4th in grand vet despite 5 offs — 4 me leaving bike and 1 chain leaving 1×11 setup !!!

    Premier Icon jam bo
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    I heard it was a bit of a mudfest. Had visitors for rd 1&2, hoping to make it to rd3.

    Stupid.is
    Member

    Wheely I was there to! I was racing hard (or is that hardly racing) and managed three laps before deciding to call it a day! Had 3 or 4 offs all on the final decent. Great fun mind. πŸ™‚

    wheely
    Member

    Nasty crash involving 5 or 6 riders on initial start sprint. Missed them by an inch !! Wasn’t nice.

    tooby
    Member

    Completed my first ever off road race in the fun?? Category at cannock today. Mud was plentiful and had me off on lap 2. Thanks to the chap who stopped to see if I was OK. Pride hurt! Completed the race and thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it.
    Front tyre 24 psi- spesh Butcher (too much in hindsight today) rear tyre 28 psi-Spesh Purgatory.

    Premier Icon adsh
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    Kryton – sorry to hear your woes. Analyse what went wrong, rejig training and come back stronger.
    Are you starting too fast? Maybe you should chase rather than be chased?

    Premier Icon weeksy
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    2 weeks before the first Southern XC race. Not raced with these guys before. I’ve just thrown on the XC RR’s tubeless, so i’m ready to go ! if only i had 20% more power and 20% less weight to drag round too !

    Premier Icon Kryton57
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    Kryton – sorry to hear your woes. Analyse what went wrong, rejig training and come back stronger.
    Are you starting too fast? Maybe you should chase rather than be chased?

    Thanks.

    I’ve 3 weeks until the next one. Traineroad say repeat the last 3 weeks of plan, I can’t remember if thats build or speciality. Probably the latter?

    Maybe so – my race team colleagues have mentioned the same so perhaps I’ll go off easier at the next round an see what happens, but as you know on XC its harder to pass on the singletrack than the start, so I’m not sure I’ll fair better. I’d live to see an overhead Video of yesterdays race to see where on the start the people that later passed me were for analysis.

    However, a strava comparison over the same rounbd/course last year has me exactly the same speed, 5 places up. Yesterday there was a howling head wind, last year there wasn’t. So perhaps I am overall stronger than before just not good enough overall. Last year estimated Wats 177, this year estimated Watts 205. My club collegue was using stages and knocked out 288 NP to come 8th.

    Sigh, what does it all mean…

    windyg
    Member

    Kryton I wouldn’t kick yourself too hard, i don’t think it was an ideal course to judge overall how good or bad you or anybody else was.
    I was annoyed to lose out to people riding B lines yet I rode all the A lines that shouldn’t happen.
    Round 2 will be better, hoping to head over there on Sat afternoon to check it out.

    Premier Icon weeksy
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    Sigh, what does it all mean…

    Youre an average bloke with average ability.

    The sooner you accept this, the better the world will become.

    Over the past 5 months i’ve learned a massive lesson… I wasn’t training enough, i wasn’t eating right, i wasn’t as fit as i thought.
    I’m still not eating right, but i am a LOT fitter and faster than i was.
    In simple terms, the guys who are fast are fast for a reason, either genetically, historical training/fitness or current training…. If you want to be quicker… train better/more/harder/intelligently.

    if you’re putting in an average amount of training, you’ll be an average racer πŸ™‚

    crosshair
    Member

    Kryton, have you got your Strava profile for that bike set to MTB? It massively alters the predicted power I think….

    Premier Icon adsh
    Subscriber

    Stages power is immaterial – mine over reads by 30W compared to a powertap.

    When I have felt the need to kickstart things but have little time:-

    1. Have a key very high quality session each week that you do to complete exhaustion – eg 4 increasing to 5x 15minutes x 90% your 20minute FTP. This session is trumps – nothing must get in the way of going into it rested and giving maximum effort.

    2. Get out to an XC course to play/ride each weekend. Concentrate on holding speed and technique.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
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    Kryton, have you got your Strava profile for that bike set to MTB? It massively alters the predicted power I think….

    Yes it does but I do.

    You’re an average bloke with average ability.

    The kind of comment which makes me think all the time and money spent on this is pretty pointless. I mean, Turbo’ing and riding to a plan for 6 months for what exactly? To be average. Wonderful.

    Premier Icon weeksy
    Subscriber

    The kind of comment which makes me think all the time and money spent on this is pretty pointless. I mean, Turbo’ing and riding to a plan for 6 months for what exactly? To be average. Wonderful.

    Not really.. there’s levels of average. There’s average within average and there’s personal battles within that too. Just because you’ll never make it as a podium elite rider doesn’t mean it’s pointless. If you’re fitter/faster/better than previously, then of course that’s a good thing. But don’t ever think you can just flick a switch and go from Sport mid-pack to Elite front runner in 6 months, because simply put, that’s not going to happen.

    I’m average… but i’ve accepted the averageness (sp!) and i now target goals within myself and my realistic expectations.

    For example, this weekend i’ve got the Cat 4 debut…. my target is to make 50% of race distance without being shelled out the back.

    Weekend after it’s Southern XC, which doesn’t seem to have a rubbish bloke friendly class like Gorrick, so my target is 50% of finishers….

    Both of these are WAY above what i could have expected this time last year… so even though i’m only average.. i’m a better average than i was πŸ™‚

    Premier Icon weeksy
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    p.s….

    When i say Average… i don’t mean that as an insult… I mean that as Average in an XC Racer context. You’re still going to wipe the floor with 99% of other humans…. it’s only other racers who will fall into your ‘average’ catagory with you.

    I remmeber taking a bunch of lads to Afan “yeah we can ride, we’re fit and healthy”… We nearly had to call for an air-ambulance.

    ferrals
    Member

    Kryton, I think your strategy is right, I’m not a good starter and find if there is a singletrack or other bottle neck soon after the start it’s game over unless I really push it to get as near te front as possible off the start. Otherwise you are spinning away behind people without being able to pass and lose too much time

    In my book, cramp isnt a fitness thing, its a preparation thing. Were you adequately hydrated the day before?

    Premier Icon adsh
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    Actually from this https://www.rootsandrain.com/race5464/2017-feb-26-mud-sweat-and-gears-xc-1-lee-valley/graph/filters/category62117/ it would appear you rode a good consistent race 17th, 21st, 20th, 19th, 20th, 20th, 21st.
    21st ex 38th in vets – pretty competitive class no?

    ferrals
    Member

    Also two points regarding average.

    1) The people winning, even in lower cats, are exceptional, to win you need a combinination of genetics, training, technical skill and mental fortitude. Being avaerage in an XC race context is not a bad thing as weeksy said.

    2) I don’t know your background, but your in vets, this includes ex-elites who have raced since they were in junveiles and so have 25 years of training in them. However hard you train you wont meet their base. Last year I trained as much as I could, based on strava more than others, but was at best mid field sports cat and slightly better in ‘cross. However I have to accept that having not touched a bike from the age of 20 – 32, I’ll never get that base level of the faster guys and will always be mid pack. 3 years hard training will never beat 20 years

    edit. In other news, having spent yesterday slithering down our local pretty technical hashtag enduro trails the motivation is back and I’m looking forward to racing. πŸ˜€

    Premier Icon adsh
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    Actually from this https://www.rootsandrain.com/race5464/2017-feb-26-mud-sweat-and-gears-xc-1-lee-valley/graph/filters/category62117/ it would appear you rode a good consistent race 17th, 21st, 20th, 19th, 20th, 20th, 21st.
    21st ex 38th in vets – pretty competitive class no? Top 10 within 4minutes of eachother.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
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    Thanks ADSH it looks better like that. You can see where I lost out to the 2nd lap stitch then pulled some back.

    pretty competitive class no?

    Regional A Vets, so yes.

    In my book, cramp isnt a fitness thing, its a preparation thing. Were you adequately hydrated the day before?

    So er, I have a confession to make. I went out – ableit with good intentions – and had 5 pints on Friday, DID drink loads of water on Saturday but marshalled all day Sunday with only 2 coffees pre race. 😳

    In February throughout I haven’t been looking forward to this race – I’ve been nervous of it – have had post Turbo depression if there is such a thing and to be very honest probably didnt act much like “an XC Racer” in the last month. Retreospectively then, I’ve got myself to blame I guess.

    *awaits appropriate flaming*

    steve_b77
    Member

    ferrals – Member
    In my book, cramp isn’t a fitness thing, its a preparation thing. Were you adequately hydrated the day before?

    Apparently it’s neither. There’s a Nobel prize winning scientist who is also a top ranked competitive kayak’er and he’s been researching it. As it can occur at any point in anyone he is of the opinion is due to humans being imperfect with numerous evolutionary glitches and considers the onset of cramp to be a neuro-muscular (?) issue rather than a physiological issue; where there’s a glitch in the brain that suddenly causes the dramatic muscular contraction that causes cramp.

    The common theory that strong tasting foods such as pickles etc delay the onset of cramp don’t do so sue to their sodium content but because the sudden strong almost overpowering taste interrupts the signal generation in the brain and therefore the message to cause cramp.

    Premier Icon weeksy
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    *awaits appropriate flaming*

    Why would we flame you ? You got out there, you tried, you pushed, you ENTERED…. The only thing you’re guilty of is being human.

    ferrals
    Member

    I will flame 😈 πŸ˜†

    What were you expecting? piss-poor prep = piss-poor performance. If you are marshalling at least have a bottle of water and an energy bar with you. The cost of races these days I’d not waste an entry by getting drunk a day or two before. I’ve actually made Sunday my default drinking day. Works well with a TR plan.

    padkinson
    Member

    So er, I have a confession to make. I went out – ableit with good intentions – and had 5 pints on Friday, DID drink loads of water on Saturday but marshalled all day Sunday with only 2 coffees pre race.

    Andy Cockburn (3rd elite) was at a wedding the day before and was definitely a bit hungover. NO EXCUSES ALLOWED πŸ˜†

    padkinson
    Member

    My club collegue was using stages and knocked out 288 NP to come 8th.

    Blimey! That’s more than Rich or me (278W NP), is this guy really bad at going round corners or something?
    To be honest I was really surprised that the average power round that course was so high with the amount of twisty stuff. Some XC races in tight woods end up around 170W NP, just because you spend half the time not pedalling.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
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    I just snuck a look at his strava – 262w average via Stages. Its may be his Watts/KG of course. Our 5th place man was 175w proving guess its not what it is but what you do with it.

    because you spend half the time not pedalling.

    There was a lot of pedalling yesterday, certainly from me!

    However I have to accept that having not touched a bike from the age of 20 – 32

    Pretty similar – Rugby from 21-26, social MTB from 30-40 with some “for giggles” team 24’s, last 4 years proper training and now in my 3rd year racing.

    steve_b77
    Member

    I remember at the Emergency Service Nationals last year, there was a guy in Masters who said his stages was showing about 280W over the duration (plenty of fire road climbing) but he finished about 10 minutes behind me and I sure as hell can’t kick out that amount of power off road for any length of time.

    ferrals
    Member

    Probably had draggy tyres on πŸ˜†

    Premier Icon adsh
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    Don’t pay any attention to Stages power. I’m verging on Elite according to my W/kg from mine. All it’s good for is testing yourself and then setting your own training zones. You absolutely cannot use it to compare against others or for W/kg etc.

    ac282
    Member

    What PM do you have Paddy? I wonder whether whether left only power meters work well when there are so many accelerations from low speed.

    Eg if you lead with your right leg then you are missing the first big pedal stroke coming out of every corner. (I’ve just made this up. You would have to have a data file for the race to see if adding a powder spike after every 0W section makes a difference).

    padkinson
    Member

    I’ve got a Quarq Riken (road one on mountain bike cranks). It apparently can separate out left and right leg power, although I’m not sure how because it’s just a spider. It reads slightly higher than my road powertap, but not outside what is reasonable for drivetrain losses.

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