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2015-16 rugby, world cup year
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Kryton57Full Member
I didn’t see the game but reading the aftermath, I can’t believe our forwards were so shite. What went wrong? Also in fairness then, want opinion on a Burgess / Joseph centre pairing? One big defensive yet threatening player with enough skills to real ease the guile and skill outside?
I firmly believe Watson and JJ play well of each other so that combo could be really strong.
Also – opinions on May? The media reading has him parting a better more direct game and will start ahead of Nowell – true? Haskell pointed out as being one dimensional and a pointless sub – also true? Looks like LCD won’t make the cut.
anagallis_arvensisFull MemberLCD couldnt hit a cowscarse with a banjo. Leave well alone. First half pack were outplayed but stayed competitive, second changes saw them crumble. May was pretty good and Watson very good too. The french backs were dire in both attack and defence mind apart from Spedding.
wreckerFree MemberThe media have for some reason made loud noises about May. Didn’t look hugely threatening, caught a sublime kick from Goode but his try didn’t involve anything more than that. Watson on the other hand had his opposite number completely petrified, why it didn’t keep going out there I don’t know.
don’t know if Slade’s ever covered 15
Slade has played a lot of rugby at 15, as has Nowell.
Lawes is actually a pretty good 6, Billy V not so much. The Hask(tm) covers all positions in the back row.
No idea why Corbs is in there, he’s barely played any rugby this season.Chances are that it wouldn’t be needed anyway: it’s Robshaw they’d be covering, not warburton.
Naughty!
PigfaceFree MemberIf Lancaster gambles on Burgess and it goes horribly wrong will he fall on his sword?
deadlydarcyFree MemberSo, I hear Hawkeye is to be used in the RWC (haven’t read up in what capacity…just parroting something I heard on the Beeb). Might make for some interesting replays.
duckmanFull MemberLancaster seems determined to take Burgess, he is quoted in todays times as having told Burell he has to step up this week.So,the guy is great all season,Burgess has a curates egg of a game and still goes? Go England…Oh and I think you should start with LCD,Corbs,Clark and The Hask(tm)and Burgess.But then I am Scottish, so would say that.
anagallis_arvensisFull MemberEngland team to face FranceMike Brown; Jack Nowell, Jonathan Joseph, Luther Burrell, Jonny May; George Ford, Ben Youngs; Joe Marler, Tom Youngs, Dan Cole; Joe Launchbury, Courtney Lawes; James Haskell, Chris Robshaw (capt), Billy Vunipola.Replacements: Jamie George, Mako Vunipola, David Wilson, Dave Attwood, Nick Easter, Danny Care, Danny Cipriani, Billy Twelvetrees
Strong side. Is The Hask fist choice 6 then?
Kryton57Full MemberCrikey, pretty much a first team named for England. Not sure what this means, I thought Lancaster would wait for Ireland for that. Looks like Billy V will get a full 80, and Burrell and JJ are back in the centres- an established pairing and in my mind Burrell is Having to prove Burgess is too green but needs a solid game to do so. Nowells on for Watson whom I believe had secured his place, Brown for Goode. Test also for the two Youngs brothers. Haskell at 6, Robshaw, Cole and Marler back.
Playing on prior form, we should nail France with this team and to not do so would be self defeating.
I think this sees 12 trees, corbs, lcd, and perhaps Burgess potentially out, although Burgess could be a good impact player.
wreckerFree MemberStrong side. Is The Hask fist choice 6 then?
I think woods stock(!) has fallen. The Hask(tm) has had a very good season and finally seems to understand the game (a little….)
I don’t think Burrell will be first choice, and Watson is nailed on (IMHO) so it’s a chance to have a look at Nowell.we should nail France with this team and to not do so would be self defeating.
Let’s see what the french team looks like eh?
Kryton57Full MemberIt won’t be good enough for that team, which doesn’t mean the French can’t win in Paris. For confidence, we need to beat them and Ireland and if that momentum happens, Wales and Australia will face a strong confident England’.
Burrell has the skills but needs to revert to form and match a Burgess defense – both he and JJ can score but it’s his to lose. Frankly it’s a horrible decision if Burrell plays well – consistent experience vs new boy with skills vs the Blunt instrument.
May obviously didn’t do enough – catching and scoring is not the same as play making hence another look vs Nowell required. Haskell can cover 8 – can Wood? So there we have Billy V probably a cert, but a choice between Haskell/wood/Morgan? Morgan is the best 8 of those three for 60, Haskell can cover 8, so a good game could relegate Wood.
wreckerFree MemberWell they beat us in february of last year so whilst I admire your confidence, I don’t share it!
Bomber has to drop 8 I think and Brookes is out already, leaving 7.Kryton57Full Member36, Burgess, Cips, LCd, Goode, Wood/Morgan, Webber, Easter, George would be my bet. I realise that’s 9, so I’d gamble on Goode and Morgan staying in.
ekulFree MemberI’m not sure where all the hate for May has come from? I thought Saturday was his best game in an England shirt. No defensive blunders, chased well, scored a well taken try and also had an assist. I’m not sure what more he could do?
Also I think they’ve been quoted as saying Brookes will be ok. And given the fact he can play both sides of the front row I think he’s in with a pretty good chance.
wreckerFree MemberDropping goode and cips leaves holes due to their versatility. Goode will be in is my bet.
Kryton57Full MemberIm sure Moore would step up….
I’m not sure what more he could do?
That’s the point. He isn’t big, he offers nothing other than scoring ability when put into position by other players, will get bowled over by Julien Savea and fails to support a FB well. Not a patch on Watson and needs a better show of ability hence he’s out again. Nowell needs to support Brown and out play May in any other than a easy scoring position to secure his own position tbh.
Kryton57Full MemberOnly taking one hooker Kryton?? Youngs and…
Realistically yes ok – Webber will stay. So Attwood vs Kruis, or maybe Clark gets his just desserts.
ekulFree MemberShirley his assist for Watsons second try belies the theory that he fails to support other players, it was in the opposite wing looping right round the back, a nice little show and then a well timed pass out.
If we weren’t capable of creating holes in opposition defences I’d completely agree with you because nowell and Watson are better in traffic. But with ford pulling the strings if May can hit those gaps he’s gone, in situations like that there’s no substitute for raw pace.
I think all three will go anyway tbh.
i think it could be last chance saloon for 12ts myself, he’s had chance afte chance to prove himself and then Slades come in and done everything the want from 12Ts on his debut.
wreckerFree MemberShirley his assist for Watsons second try belies the theory that he fails to support other players, it was in the opposite wing looping right round the back, a nice little show and then a well timed pass out.
Quite. Greenwood ran this play on the fancypants puter thing before kick off.
i think it could be last chance saloon for 12ts myself, he’s had chance afte chance to prove himself and then Slades come in and done everything the want from 12Ts on his debut.
Bang on too. He’s essentially the player SL hoped 12T would be but a little bit smaller. SL will play a lump between ford and JJ though and I don’t blame him. Burrell needs to have a good game or he’s going home.
Kryton57Full MemberOk. I’ll stay on the fence though as I don’t disagree with the above either.
DanWFree MemberQuite telling that neither the English management or fans really have much idea of the “best” 15 let alone a matchday squad. The vast majority of players mentioned are known quantities for England so there aren’t many surprises to be had individually but England appear to not know the team as a whole in quite the same way still.
jambalayaFree MemberLooks close to a first XV to me, perhaps not surprising as the first match was a second XV and he wants to give everyone a run out. My guess is France do much the same.
I think 36’s time has passed, he never really grabbed the opportunity. JJ had to wait a long time but has excelled, Slade has grabbed his chance too.
Kryton57Full MemberDanW there are no big surprises because an excellent a Rugby team is one that also has gelled and formed relationships together, and know/ expect how their colleagues will play. The difficulty of this is magnified for international teams as they play together less than club teams. I’m not saying England is an excellent team, but neither are the players so adept that they don’t need that relationship. Vis a vis a “different” team will likely have a disadvantage of missing that experience together – hence then need for the same players to experience time, wins and losses together.
Watch the two recent AB’s games to see the difference experienced partners Smith and Nonu made.
anagallis_arvensisFull MemberEngland will take 3 hookers as you need 2 in each squad, if say Youngs takes a knock that puts him out of the next game but he will be fit for later matches your screwed. Without the kiwi biter this is Englands biggest potential worry the other 2 dont look up to it. A prop who can play both sides is pointless with match squads of 23.
Is Brad Barrit not in the current squad?
I reckon 12trees, Cips, Wood and Corbisero will be the headline drops and one of Burgess and Slade with Slade most likely. Could we have Slade please?anagallis_arvensisFull MemberI reckon Wales will be:
Leigh Halfpenny, Liam Williams, George North, Alex Cuthbert, Hallam Amos, Jamie Roberts, Scott Williams, Tyler Morgan, Rhys Webb, Gareth Davies, Lloyd Williams, Dan Biggar, Rhys Priestland, Gareth Anscombe, Gethin Jenkins, Paul James, Aaron Jarvis, Samson Lee, Tomas Francis. Scott Baldwin, Ken Owens, Kristian Dacey, Alun Wyn Jones, Luke Charteris, Jake Ball, Bradley Davis, Ross Moriarty, Justin Tipuric, Dan Lydiate, Taulupe Faletau, Sam Warburton.
With these going home:
Rob Evans, Scott Andrews, James King, Dominic Day, Cory Allen, Eli Walker, Matthew Morgan.PigfaceFree MemberOooh Samson is having a run is he, pleasegod don’t let him break.
wreckerFree MemberI reckon 12trees, Cips, Wood and Corbisero will be the headline drops and one of Burgess and Slade with Slade most likely.
I thought that originally, but I think SL wants a bosher at 12 (with the diminutive Ford and JJ he needs one) and more skilled player at 13. With Barritt, Burrell, Burgess and JJ; we would be short in the skills department. Also Slade has played centre, wing, full back and fly half at prem level so he may find that his versatility stands him in good stead. My feeling is he’s staying, but what do I know?
duckmanFull MemberCorbisero unable to train due to sciatica,not looking like he is going to make the cut,is it? Cole can play on both sides,can’t he?
anagallis_arvensisFull Memberh Samson is having a run is he, pleasegod don’t let him break
Doubt he will play before the world cup and may not make it at all. Hopefully Gatwards have whipped Francis into shape.
tinybitsFree MemberCole can play on both sides,can’t he?
Don’t think so. Certainly only plays one side for Leicester.
Shame about Corbs, but if he’s not the player he was, then need to look elsewhere.loumFree Memberaa
fair play on naming a squad
– it takes a bit more effort than just picking holes in others like i’m about to
will try to put one up when more time for you to comment.think they look short on prop cover in that squad – specially if one’s carrying an injury that means he can’t start the early games. Early injury to one of them 5 and there’s trouble. Not sure on back row either – there’s the obvious 4 who are in every 23 then a youngster (can he cover 6,7,8 ?) who makes The Hask look disciplined.
Lot’s of decent cover 9-15 but may need more forward cover IMO.
loumFree MemberOn that England side – lots of first teamers but a few there who are being given a chance to make their case.
I’d put T Hask, Nowell, Burrell in the latter.
Nowell, and May fighting for 1 spot (watson nailed on) but all three will travel as they’re the only wings – and likely all 3 could be matchday 23 with may in pole at the moment but nowell offering good versatillity to cover all outside back spots from the bench.
hask will go ‘cos he’s versatile, think Woods a bit ahead at 6 but not much in it and both will be there.
haskell was playing great around christmas to easter- NotHeineken Cup v Leinster and early 6 nations but not so hot towards end of season.and IMO, Barritt and JJ still most likely centres if fit.
Burgess and Burrell fighting over one spot (more as inside bosher) and Slade probably ahead ‘cos he offers something different in covering JJ’s 13 spot better (who could have to move to wing if others are injured with only 3 included) and also backs up 10, 15 in case.loumFree MemberHealy, Mcgrath,
best, cronin , Strauss,
Ross, moore, bent
POC,Toner, henderson, Ryan
POM, SOB, heaslip, Murphy, HenryMurray, reddan, marmion
Sexton, jackson,
Henshaw, madigan
Payne, earls,
Bowe, Trimble, RKearney, Zebo, (Jones/Gilroy/Fitzgerald/DKearney)If the backs are all fit and not carrying injuries then I’d love to see Gilroy make the squad as he’s the most dangerous tryscorer of the 4, but he is an out and out winger – and at the moment looks the least likely as he’s not being given the chance to claim it. jones probablly in pole position as he’s the FB, but Zebo put his hand up to cover 15 well.
If Trimble or Bowe ( who could both move inside if needed) are carrying knocks then it may be that Fitz or Kearney’s versatillity may put them back ahead covering 13 as needed.
Admit there’s a distinct lack of decent specialist 12 cover but that does seem to be a hard problem to solve at the mo’.
if only Slammin Sam had an Irish Granny .Might not even be a fifth outside back spot availableanyway, if it turns out they need to take 6 props ‘cos of injury – healy and Moore still not proven fitness.
And there’s an outside chance they may not even take the 5th Back row forward, that’s the other option to find space for another prop. Murphy’s likely to be in the 23 bench, but Henry was great last year and would make a cracking “Midweek Team” captain.anagallis_arvensisFull Memberthink they look short on prop cover in that squad – specially if one’s carrying an injury that means he can’t start the early games. Early injury to one of them 5 and there’s trouble. Not sure on back row either – there’s the obvious 4 who are in every 23 then a youngster (can he cover 6,7,8 ?) who makes The Hask look disciplined.
Got 3 tightheads 2 loose, if Gethin or James break then someone gets called up to replace. Its not like they will have to travel far! Moriarty can cover 6 and 8. Tips 7 and Faletau can play 6 or 7. Warbs would be first to replace Lydiate or Faletau at 6 or 8 with Tips going to 7. The other option is to drop a lock eg Ball or Bradley and take King who covers 6 and 5. None are ideal options but thats who we have. We could also consider not taking Priestland or Anscombe but with Liam Williams struggling too we need one of them at least to double up at 10 and 15 unless Amos is seen as back up 15.
anagallis_arvensisFull MemberThat try was 100% Hooks fault. If the nhs did passes……
Eli was pretty good in that game but he hasnt progressed due to being almost always broken. I think Cuthbert will go instead with Amos also as he covers 15.DanWFree MemberI think we are both trying to make the same point about England Kryton but maybe coming at it from different angles. I can’t help feeling England have an abundance of top quality players but the combinations still aren’t where one would hope they should be still. A team like Wlaes on the other hand don’t have the same problem- it is more about trying to keep your only decent 15 players fit and fill the bench somehow 😆 Ok, not completely fair but not far off.
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