2013/14 Rugby Thread

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  • 2013/14 Rugby Thread
  • deadlydarcy
    Member

    surprised youve not run crying to the mods like you normally do

    I’ll let you in on a secret here nora. I’ve never once reported you. Have others then? Just shows you need to be careful when you’re being a racist bigot round these parts. There are eyes everywhere. Anyway, do stick to the rugby old chap. I realise you know bugger all about it, but it’s a welcoming inclusive thread. 😀

    bloodynora
    Member

    Well i know JW won a world cup medal and odriscoll never got anywhere near one, know that hurts you but they’re the facts however much you don’t like them, no need to get all arsey dear and deflect the argument by casual accusations of racism… tut tut

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    😆
    I don’t even know why you’re arguing the point with me, I didn’t even join in the debate.

    nora, you’re a bigot. You’re a racist. You’ve demonstrated it plenty of times on STW. It’s there to see for anyone who cares to check your posting history. You don’t even deny it.

    Anyway, about the Irish bottling in Paris…care to comment?

    No, didn’t think so. 😆

    Funny thing is I’m sure DD couldnt careless about ireland not winning a world cup as I certainly dont care that wales havent. Anyway I would suggest you just leave it DD but I might look a bit hypocritic!!!
    To end the debate though we only need two words Dan Luger.

    boxfish
    Member

    I’ll admit that JW wasn’t an unbelievable 10 in the Carter, Latham type mold

    Latham was a fine fullback, but a 10 he was not. Larkham was a 10.

    toys19
    Member

    Funny thing is I’m sure DD couldnt careless about ireland not winning a world cup as I certainly dont care that wales havent.

    Much as I agree with you about JW vs BOD, it is an established pshychological fact that people move the goalposts to suit their lot. If you had won or even come 2nd in a world cup you would think it is important.. (Much like we don’t care about grand slams..) 😀

    Meanwhile I wonder if you would cast your eyes over this vid below.
    It is not the best example but I was meaning to ask what you guys think. Everyone says May is great, but to my naive eye he just runs sideways (the break in that vid agaisnt scotland is not a great example as they forgot to bring their tackling pants that day, and flatter May somewhat). Normally he runs sideways looking for a gap, across the front of the whole England line, decides to turn in , and gets flattened. (I tried to find a vid of this but couldn’t) Is this good?
    I can’t see why.. He seemd to do this the whole tournament. Enlighten me.

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppARHEF6vM0[/video]

    Much as I agree with you about JW vs BOD, it is an established pshychological fact that people move the goalposts to suit their lot. If you had won or even come 2nd in a world cup you would think it is important..

    came third once! You are right though, Wales level is a grand slam every once and a while. We’ve done well recently in this but lack the playing resources to win a world cup really

    May is OK, I’d rather have Cuthbert though and he is pretty flawed too. Young fella on the other wing is tidy, reminds me of 1/2p, reckon he could be a full back in time. Neat, tidy, composed and has pace.

    May is merely continuing the English rugby tradition of thrilling, exciting runners……running sideways.

    See also Jason Robinson. 🙂

    toys19
    Member

    Wales level is a grand slam every once and a while.

    more onces and whiles than England though.. Hence my disdain for the paltry achievment..

    Premier Icon El Vino
    Subscriber

    May’s sideways running is more effective at club level, I have seen him have a fair bit of success with it at Gloucester including against Munster in this years HEC.
    The best measure of Englands wing play this season is how Marland Yarde’s reputation improved the longer he was injured.

    As for JW, great player and arguably one of the best Northern Hemisphere OHs but way off Dan Carters level, it’s like comparing Beckham to Maradona.

    duckman
    Member

    The best measure of Englands wing play this season is how Marland Yarde’s reputation improved the longer he was injured.

    And Ashton has gone away and rediscovered his International form 😆

    toys19
    Member

    The best measure of Englands wing play this season is how Marland Yarde’s reputation improved the longer he was injured.

    yes I love this.

    Going back to JW, he did what he had to do at the time and did it well. For my own personal likes in rugby, despite winning the world cup, it was not our finest hour, as in not the most impressive exciting rugby. I hope to see more creativity and improvement, as well as winning ways in the future..

    Premier Icon El Vino
    Subscriber

    For my own personal likes in rugby, despite winning the world cup, it was not our finest hour, as in not the most impressive exciting rugby. I hope to see more creativity and improvement, as well as winning ways in the future..

    You won the world cup in the Southern Hemisphere, you are the only Northern Hemisphere team to even win it. You should cherish it.

    My rugby club has just sent me an email asking us to apply for tickets for the 2015 World cup, half a million tickets available to members of rugby clubs before they go on sale to the general public.

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    I hope to see more creativity and improvement, as well as winning ways in the future..

    Yeah, how about take on the All Blacks with All Blacks style rugby. That’ll work!

    My rugby club has just sent me an email asking us to apply for tickets for the 2015 World cup, half a million tickets available to members of rugby clubs before they go on sale to the general public.

    We’ve had that too – damn expensive isn’t it!

    He looks after himself very well and is the ultimate professional. We’re really pleased he’s staying and so are the boys

    guess who

    Pigface
    Member

    He does seem to of won over the haters

    My comment about JW being an idiot defender, as a 10 it is not your job to be smashing into 8’s and second rowers, he did it and hurt himself more than once

    Premier Icon muddydwarf
    Subscriber

    In fairness, JW had to do that at Newcastle because his own back row players weren’t doing that job!

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    @aa I don’t think JW was Carter’s equal, I think JW was better. So that makes me nuttier than a nutty thing in your book.

    @CFH I recall Robinson going mostly forwards to score his try in the RWC 2003. His nick-name in Australia was “fast-forward” BTW

    @Pigface, Howley was clearly a better 9 than Dawson (as demonstrated by the fact he was first choice for the Lions until getting taken out). I have it on very good authority that the England coaching staff tried to get JW to calm down with regard to his tackling to prolong his career, fact is he is still playing.

    Re “style” it’s professional sport, wining first style second. The RWC is a high pressure environment, its unreasonable to expect a spectacle of running rugby under that amount of pressure, NZ won ugly last time.

    In other news I am looking forward to the Saracens v Clermont H Cup semi – £16.50 a ticket is a bargain in my view.

    toys19
    Member

    You won the world cup in the Southern Hemisphere, you are the only Northern Hemisphere team to even win it. You should cherish it.

    I think we could safely say I do cherish it. I rank that day in my life pretty highly, and all I did was watch it on TV at home. (I did go surfing after and that was good). Still have the VHS recording of it, and the next days newspapers. I would just prefer to win the world cup with a prettier style of rugby next time…

    @aa I don’t think JW was Carter’s equal, I think JW was better. So that makes me nuttier than a nutty thing in your book.

    not just mine I would think.

    duckman
    Member

    So what now for the rabo AA? How about games played on a Sat afternoon? I assume the Welsh clubs will end their fight with the union as the union controls entry to it?

    Can we shoot it. Its shite, God knows what the way forward is. The demise of pro rugby in Wales I suppose.

    ijs445ra
    Member

    Sky have picked up the broadcast rights for the Pro12 next season have they not? Match times are likely to be dictated by their scheduling.

    Further details of the new Euro setup below.

    Broadcasting…
    BT and Sky have reached an agreement in principle concerning arrangements for the European Rugby Champions Cup and the European Rugby Challenge Cup competitions, both of which would be broadcast jointly by BT Sport and Sky Sports.

    The pool matches would be shared equally, both will show two quarter finals each, one semi-final each and the final would be broadcast by both live. The four year agreement is subject to contract.

    European Rugby Champions Cup qualification…
    •20 clubs qualifying through the finishing positions in their leagues from the preceding season:
    •Top 6 from TOP 14?; top six from Premiership Rugby; top seven from the PRO12 (with at least one club from each country participating in the league)
    •The 20th place will be taken by the winner of a play off between:
    •For the 1st season: The seventh highest finishing club from TOP14 and the seventh highest finishing club from Premiership Rugby. This play off will be played in May 2014, either as one match (in which case, there will be a draw for home advantage) or as home/away.
    •For subsequent seasons: The seventh highest finishing club from TOP14, the seventh highest finishing club from Premiership Rugby; and the eighth and ninth highest finishing clubs from PRO12 (or the two highest finishing which have not already qualified automatically).
    •From 2015 season, if the previous season’s European Rugby Challenge Cup winner has not already qualified through its finishing position in its league, it will participate in the play off by taking a place given to its league.??The play off will take place over two dates.
    •1st date: seventh club of TOP14 versus eighth or ninth from PRO12 and the seventh club of Premiership Rugby versus eighth or ninth from PRO 12. The matches will be played at the home venues of the TOP14 and Premiership Rugby clubs.?
    •2nd date: The two winners from the first matches. The venue will be selected by a draw.

    European Rugby Challenge Cup qualification
    20 clubs comprising: 18 clubs from TOP14, Premiership Rugby and PRO12; 2 clubs from the qualifying competition organised with FIRA-AER.

    ?The competition will take place over nine weekends. The Pool phase will be through five Pools of four teams, which will play each other home and away (six matches).

    The five Pool winners and the three best runners up will qualify for the Quarter Finals. The Quarter Finals will be played at the home venues of the four best Pool winners. The Quarter Final winners will play the Semi Finals and the Semi Final winners will play the Final.

    Calendar of both Competitions: The Pool phase will be played in three blocks of two weekends and will be completed by the end of January. The Final will take place latest the first weekend of May.

    The Qualifying Competition

    The Qualifying Competition will compromise between eigth and 12 teams from Tier two countries and Italian clubs as agreed by EPCR & FIRA-AER.

    EPCR will be managed through a Board of Directors representing all parties and an Executive committee in charge of commercial matters and assisting with preparations of Board meetings. The EPCR Board shall have an Independent Chairman.

    The EPCR Executive will comprise the Independent Chairman, Director-General, and three voting representatives, one from each of the leagues – namely the TOP14, Premiership Rugby and PRO12. The Director-General shall manage the day to day operations of EPCR.

    A minimum eight year agreement…
    Equal distribution of funds. i.e. a third to TOP14 teams, a third to Premiership Rugby teams and a third to PRO12 teams, with a guaranteed minimum distribution for the clubs from the PRO12 in years one to five.

    duckman
    Member

    Sky have picked up the broadcast rights for the Pro12 next season have they not? Match times are likely to be dictated by their scheduling.

    BT sport had it this year and didn’t show it,tells you everything you need to know right there.

    If bt had it how come it was on bbc and s4c?

    Premier Icon muddydwarf
    Subscriber

    Sale move next seasons games to Saturday 2pm starts.
    Personally very happy about it, but some fans are whining already.
    Hopefully more away fans can now make the trip up to see us now though – MsD says Gloucester fans can stay away as they are ‘arrogant’ :D, she has a bit of a bee in her bonnet about Gloucester!

    surfer
    Member

    Personally very happy about it, but some fans are whining already.

    Alternative view is that those who have been “whining” for a long time have finally got their way? Given that Sale have been playing on Friday evenings (majority of games) since 2002 I think its fair that many fans feel that it should remain that way and make arrangements accordingly. For many having a game at 2pm on a Saturday impacts on lots of peoples own sporting activities and family commitments.

    For me it means I may not renew mine and Surfer juniors ST given we cant make it to every game. Hopefully those that “whined” to get it moved to Saturday all buy ST’s as many have promised. Given the turnouts on both Friday PM and Saturday matches recently Friday appears to draw a larger crowd!

    Premier Icon El Vino
    Subscriber

    I know AA disagrees but some of the Pro 12 games are decent, the 6 irish derby games involving Leinster, Munster & Ulster are always watchable for a start. Sure there are some crap games but the same is true of the Premiership, games I’ve seen this year involving Worcester, LI,Newcastle and even Wasps have been really poor.

    ijs445ra
    Member

    There is decent games and crap games in every league.

    I think that in general there is a greater desire in the Pro12 to play attack minded rugby played. Unfortuntely it is hit and miss if the skill levels are there to carry it off successfully.

    I guess the fear is that with the new qualification criteria for the HC that may lead to a more defensive approach. Conversely it may also intensify the derbys as each team know that the best of their country qualify irrespective of league postion so beat your country rivals and you have a good chance of qualifying.

    tinybits
    Member

    But the point behind a bottom of the table clash between say Worc and Newc as opposed to Newport and Treviso is that one will be playing because they have to do so twice a season, while the others will be fighting tooth and nail to win so as to stay up. Makes for good viewing even if the actual game play is poor – which it often is against two bottom the league sides because well, they’re not very good!

    Premier Icon muddydwarf
    Subscriber

    Well Surfer, we are buying ST next week when they come out. The sheer godawful experience of getting to the ground on a Friday night, then having to leave early if the game ran late, to make the last train had put me off attending every home game. This way myself & MsD can easily train/walk to the ground & not worry about getting home.

    Yep the irish derbies are good as are the welsh derbies which kind of sums up why the pro 12 is shite. Read somewhere for example that BOD hasnt played a league game in wales since 2008. If the stars dont play and the teams dont give a shit why would the fans?

    mefty
    Member

    I think we could safely say I do cherish it. I rank that day in my life pretty highly, and all I did was watch it on TV at home. (I did go surfing after and that was good). Still have the VHS recording of it, and the next days newspapers. I would just prefer to win the world cup with a prettier style of rugby next time…

    I sincerely hope your wish does not come true, it is not in our nature to play pretty rugby, it is contrary to our traditions. The 2003 England side was probably the most complete side we have ever produced and they played wonderful rugby. In the World Cup their decline had just started from their zenith which for me was the game against Australia in the summer of 2003. I would also argue that New Zealand are not the most innovative rugby nation, their tradition is more to do with efficiency – doing the basics faster and more accurately than any one else. The French are innovative when true to themselves, so are the Aussies, and dare I say the Welsh have an innovative tradition. That is not England’s way and I don’t think a team will be successful if it eschews the ingrained way the game is played in its homeland.

    Premier Icon DaRC_L
    Subscriber

    mefty + 1 🙂 (and I don’t normally get involved in this thread)

    England teams have to remember to grind the win, via a powerful pack and defense that just smothers any Celtic (and that includes Les Bleus) creativity.
    Then they have to remember that to succeed they must be able to win despite not only the opposition but the referee, the rugby gods and the weather.

    loum
    Member

    Pro12 is great.
    But it’s up to the home team to go out and win their home games, and their fans to support them.
    That’s what might make attractive enough for home supporters to turn up and back them, likewise the team to perform.
    With the travel involved it’s not down to the opposition ( either the team, the squad, or their fans ) to make any game worthwhile. It’s totally at the door of the home team and their fans.
    Works well for the Irish provinces, can’t speak for the others but it looks more of a mixed success.

    There’s no point some fans blaming the League set-up itself, or the opposition that their not taking enough stars or supporters to away games, when the problem’s on their own turf. More fans – more money -more success – more fans.
    Specially from a cosy seat behind a hooky webstream.

    Oh yeah the pro 12 is great when you are an irish province subsidised to play in it by the welsh. The irish might want to wake up and smell the coffee. If the welsh go down the pan you’ll be left playing with yourself.

    ijs445ra
    Member

    Melrose sevens this weekend, unfortunaley i have a Nephews 1st birthday to go to so wont be attending.

    Carlin Isles and Niko Matawalu are in the Glasgow squad.

    Rugby, beer and maybe a even little sun would make for a pretty good weekend could even have cycled down from Embra for the day.

    Oh and the welsh regions get the least cash and yet

    “With the significant proposed contribution of £3.2m from Welsh television to secondary TV rights for Pro12, why is the estimated contribution from Irish TV only £910,000 and from Scottish TV only £140,000?

    “Based on all of the above, have imbalances or subsidies built up in TV revenues between the various International and Club competitions negotiated by the Unions and if so, how did this arise?
    V

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