2013/14 Rugby Thread

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  • 2013/14 Rugby Thread
  • Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    @aa – yes I think this is a big factor. If you’re in the England setup then the financial incentive is to stay in England, once you are outside from choice or not being selected then France looks very attractive, as I understand it there is no salary cap in France.

    @tinybits I have no doubt there are all sorts of swerves in play to stay under the cap

    wrecker
    Member

    The new deal, which was brokered by the RFU, the Rugby Players’ Association (RPA) and Premiership Rugby, will reportedly see each member of an England matchday squad receive a £7,000 match fee, a £7,000 image-rights payment and a new £1,000 training fee.

    It is understood that previously they received a match fee of around £9,200 and a win bonus of approximately £3,000.

    DanW
    Member

    Flood could be off to Toulon… he doesn’t seem too fussed to be playing a bit part in the current England set up:

    “I imagine a move [overseas] would probably rule me out of England. For me, it is no longer about whether a move might further my career.
    “It is about where I feel comfortable, about who I enjoy hanging out with and where I’m living.”

    Have we done the Return of the King yet?

    Almost certainly coming back to join Easterby’s coaching line up, I reckon.

    DanW
    Member

    Hadn’t spotted that CFH, thanks. Perhaps part of the deal to let Jon Davies head the opposite direction?

    Also talk on the same site that Byrne could be headed for Newport. Byrne did seem to be one of the more peed off players having been overlooked for Wales despite his move to France. He seems more determined to play international rugby than some of those heading abroad so perhaps a move back could actually happen- age isn’t on his side though so you’d imagine if there is an offer to stay in France (perhaps there isn’t) then it would be more sensible to take the extra pennies

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    @DanW – do you have a link to the quote from Flood ?

    duckman
    Member

    The above Flood quote is in todays times…attributed to Graham Rowntree.

    DanW
    Member

    I saw the flood quote on Eurosport

    They make it sound like a direct quote from Flood himself but I’d trust Duckman over Eurosport’s dodgy reporting!

    Hibbard next one to leave Wales
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25229561

    gone/going 15

    a few pages back we were discussing a complete team of welsh exiles but had no hooker… seems that’ll be fixed

    Byrne
    North
    Davies
    Roberts
    Brew
    Henson/Robinson
    Phillips
    Powell (dubious)
    Lydiate
    ?
    Evans
    Charteris
    Mitchel/Effion Roberts
    Hibbard
    James/Gill

    Hook misses out again!!

    DanW
    Member

    No English clubs in the Heineken Cup next year! The mess rolls on

    duckman
    Member

    But they aren’t self funded so surely will have to toe the WRU line. Surely grandstanding by English premiership teams?

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    Surely grandstanding by English premiership teams?

    Yes, I think the English teams are persisting with their negotiating stance which looks very weak without the French. H Cup games are sell outs, the replacements will not be.

    ijs445ra
    Member

    Omnishambles.

    french participation in HC is conditional of the English being in.

    Suspect the english clubs have dug themselves a bit of a hole with their TV deal.

    French cant be relied upon one way or the other as usual.

    The Welsh in fighting appears to be using the opposing camps for leverage.

    What do the fans want ? And do the clubs / governing bodies care?

    wrecker
    Member

    Cripes!
    It’s open war. The WRU seem to be acting like real assholes to the regions.

    The HC will go on without the english, the FFR will make the French clubs play. God alone knows what the English clubs will do. The relationship with ERC is completely broken, and the BT deal effectively prohibits them from competing anyways. The only saving grace is that the BT deal leaves them no worse off than they were playing in the HC.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    European Rugby. What do the fans want ? I want to see the best club sides playing each other. In the past few years that’s meant Irish, French and English. I’d like to see the Welsh get a good club side or two together. Scotland and Italy can have a reprentative or two in the group stages but I wouldn’t miss them of they weren’t in. TV money is distributed based on how you do, ie where you place in the group and how far you go in the knockout.

    Edit: Phillps came on but Rarcing got battered as did Northampton. Johhny had a bad day with his kicking and after Giteau took over the Exeter crowd where chanting “we want Johhny” excellent 🙂 planet-rugby

    Premier Icon bruk
    Subscriber

    The Heineken Cup thing is a shambles. No surprise really as money is starting to take hold of the game now.

    Jambalaya, do you want to end up with a football situation where a few clubs have all the money and power, reducing the chances of smaller clubs ever being successful? Where the clubs have the power over the international game?

    To me the international game is still the bit I enjoy watching the most. Possibly because with the invention of scottish and welsh regions there has been a loss of smaller clubs which now play at a lower level.. Progress maybe but not local for a lot of people.

    Going forward there could be things learnt from things like the NFL system of trying to equalise the game so that the ones with the deepest pockets can’t buy their way to the top.

    Maybe because I’m scottish and we are always going to struggle I feel this way and possibly if I was a tigers fan I wouldn’t.

    Anyway. Decision isn’t ours to make and we can only hope we are left with some kind of game to watch and enjoy.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/european-rugby/10503566/Sam-Warburton-sets-Wales-deadline.html

    the first part about Warburton leaving is just bad. The last two paragraphs are the really worry.

    beiciwr64
    Member

    Seems Regional Rugby in Wales is terminal unless they join the EPL.
    If the English will have them that is!
    Maybe that’s what WRU want,they could then set up new regions with central contracts same as Ireland.
    They would then be fully under WRU control and i read somewhere that it could be just 3 regions, North,East and West.
    My Guess is they will play at PYS West,Rodney Parade East and Parc Eirias North.
    I for one welcome this change,we need to keep the best players in Wales,central contracts is the only way to go.
    The infighting between the current regions and WRU is a joke and will kill the game in Wales.

    Pigface
    Member

    Wearing my schadenfreude hat so happy that northampton scum got humped

    Can someone explain what the WRU and regions are having a punch up about now, they are always squabbling about something.

    Pigface
    Member

    Ah cheers for that, so still about players contracts with the HC thrown in as well. I thought it might be something new.

    In basic terms the terms the regions what a fair share of the team wales proceeds or they want to be cut free and have a go in a proper league that some fans may care about rather than the current status quo of having to release players player when the WRU want a game outside of the window, play players in positions team wales want them and not have achance of winning anything

    Good weekend for the Irish provinces. Three resounding victories (Leinster’s demolishing of Northampton was particularly satisfying – perhaps they’re back with a shout for the HC this year) and a famous away victory for Connaught at Toulouse. 😯

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    @bruk – if I look back over the past 10 years of club rugby I have it say it’s been pretty varied, different clubs and countries enjoying periods of dominance in domestic leagues and in Europe. International rugby is still the showcase, we are a way off what has happened in football and in any case internationals will always have more tv money than the clubs so a football situation is much harder to envisage.

    @aa – certainly sounds worrying for Welsh game, the WRU must be the only organisation more political with more vested interests than RFU ! They haven;t really learnt anything from the period when their best players went to League.

    beiciwr64
    Member

    Wales Rygbi at War[/URL]
    Pretty much explains it all.

    wrecker
    Member

    An AP with Newport, Llanelli and Cardiff?
    **** YEAH!
    I’d like to see them protected from relegation for a few seasons but it would be a great return to old rivalries and I’d be happy to make the short hop over the bridge to watch brizzle play there (if we get back up).

    DanW
    Member

    A Bath statement released on Monday read: ” Bath Rugby can today confirm that Gary Gold has left the Club with immediate effect.

    “The decision was taken following a re-structure in the rugby department and with the best interests of both Gary and the Club in mind.

    “No further comment will be made until it is appropriate.”

    The director of rugby leaves due to a restructure… hmmm…. 😕 Don’t tell me he punched Henson too! 😀

    Indeed wrecker and thats what the welsh think too! Irish, Italians and scots will be screwed mind. If I was irish I’d be very worried. Cant help but wonder if letting all the team wales players go has been to build up some spare cash and put pressure on wru. No one in wales cares about the rabo and warching Leunster reserves v ospreys.

    wrecker
    Member

    It’s a win/win surely?
    The welsh fans return to their beloved clubs rather than the “regions”. The AP gets additional spice with the welsh games. The welsh clubs (hopefully) get some good moneys and benefit from increased crowds (triple the prices when quins visit!) and hopefully BT dip their hands in their pockets. I’m sold.

    Pigface
    Member

    There is no way Wales can resort to a club structure, Ospreys are the only region that married two clubs semi successfully The Blues alienated all the Pontypridd fans and the Scarlett’s have always been a stand alone which is why the WRU had to bail them out. Newport kind of works but is the poor relation, they may have the best fan base though.

    As an Osprey fan going to watch rugby at the Liberty is a miserable experience as it is a footy stadium and a crowd of 10,000 rattles around inside the place, gets full when playing the Scablets 😆

    Hope they come up with something but someone is going to lose out big time, Scots Italians Irish Welsh take your pick.

    They intent isnt to go back to clubs afaik. Its for the regions to jump ship. Ospreys v Bath at the library would be very different from ospreys leinster. Away support would help for a start.

    wrecker
    Member

    I’m just quoting the link on walesonline. Don’t blame me!

    Cardiff Blues and Llanelli Scarlets are essentially franchises given out by the WRU through the Participation Agreement, while Newport Gwent Dragons are actually 50 per cent owned by the Union.

    If the PA isn’t renewed, then the WRU have indicated the regions would effectively cease to exist.

    But Cardiff RFC, Llanelli RFC or Newport RFC would still exist and that could be the form the teams take in the Aviva.

    Ospreys v Bath at the library would be very different from ospreys leinster. Away support would help for a start.

    I’d go watch that. The osprey fans might be surprised to see a bristolian cheering their team on though!

    beiciwr64
    Member

    From Gog perspective yes. 😀
    We might get regional rugby quicker than we thought 😉
    Don’t think it will be plain sailing for the current regions as they will loose funding from the WRU.
    They could struggle and if the WRU can entice some of the players to central contracts it could get very messy indeed.
    It all depends on the deal they get in the premiership if they manage to get one that is.

    Anyway it’s clear RR in Wales is struggling so something has to change,interesting times ahead.

    Who would centrally contacted players play for?

    Pigface
    Member

    The Scarlett’s were meant to cater for the gogs, who knew that gogs were into rugby 😉

    beiciwr64
    Member

    Who would centrally contacted players play for?

    WRU are still contracted to play in the Rabo for 2 more years,if the regions jump ship then the WRU are obligated to have teams play in the league so they need to form new teams for this.
    These new teams will have the players on central contracts to keep them in Wales.
    This is what the WRU want all along.
    Word on the street is there will be 3 new regions east,west and north,so a strong possibility there might not be an Ospreys team if this goes ahead,Kerdiff Scalies and Newport will be in the premier and the new regions in the rabo.

    It’s also possible that the regions will sign the new agreement with the wru for another 5 years.
    I

    duckman
    Member

    So where are these new clubs in Wales going to get players from? The WRU,who seem even more power mad than your average blazer,are rather unlikely to allow centrally contracted players to jump ship. Can’t see them being too willing to fund them either. We are screwed mind,but in ten years you won’t know as the 6N will have died as fall out.As things stand,how many of the Welsh teams are going to survive in the Prem without

    I’d like to see them protected from relegation for a few seasons

    Welsh can’t compete with money that the top English sides have,even with a share of the BT money. If you expand the Prem to take another 3 Welsh sides,their cut is 38 million divided by 15…Surely less than the Welsh are funded by their Union.And for every Cardiff v Bath, there is a Cardiff v London Irish.
    Of course the most competitive way would be to have a British league made up of the the top 8 from England and the top 4 from the Rabo, hang on; we can make that the top 5 so the Welsh get a team in… 😈 With a second tier of professional clubs involving the lesser lights such as Edinburgh,Cardiff and Zebre and two sides promoted and relegated each year.
    I still can’t help but feel that this is still a power play by EPL. There would be no more Exeters/London Welsh,which would be a shame. And ambitious English clubs would be screwed by the addition of 4 Welsh clubs clogging up the Championship.

    wrecker
    Member

    If you expand the Prem to take another 3 Welsh sides,their cut is 38 million divided by 15

    Where did you get £38m from? The BT deal is a LOT more than that.
    There is no reason that the Prem couldn’t take 3 or more sides (welsh or english). The PRL have been lobbying for it for ages.

    duckman
    Member

    Deal is 152 million,over 4 years =38 million.

    wrecker
    Member

    It’s still a good bit more that the WRU is paying them currently (£6.6m/four regions) but BT would have to increase the deal for an expanded AP, as has been stated elsewhere.

    duckman
    Member

    Which brings in the statement from Sky that they didn’t feel the BT deal was worth the product. As I stated above, I still think it is grandstanding by EPL. Nor do I see how the Welsh clubs could survive or even be competitive without centrally contracted players. Up here the SRU refused to spend on the regions until Murrayfield was paid for (didn’t use lottery) as a result it is only the last two years that they have been able to fund the two regions to begin to be on a par with the rest of the Rabo. Without the WRU money it would take the breakaway clubs 10 years to get on the same footing.
    So here are my questions; how long do you propose they stay protected? How long will the lower clubs in England put up with it,can’t see the likes of Bristol who have a prem set up buying into it.
    When the dust settles and EPL wants the Hiney cup money again ,how many Welsh Prem teams will be in Europe.
    If there are Welsh regions,where does the allocation of Welsh places go?

    I think if welsh teams were playing in a meaningful league I reckon a few backers might appear. Ospreys, blues and scablets would do ok. Only one team goes down… they are all better than worcester or sale or reading

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