2005 enduro vs my new ibis mojo HD

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  • 2005 enduro vs my new ibis mojo HD
  • julians
    Member

    Following on from this thread here:-

    http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/new-bike-vs-old

    I’ve got my mojo hd built up tonight, and I went for a quick spin in the park.

    A bit background, I’m reusing the wheels, brakes, crank,bottom bracket, derailuers, bars, stem off the enduro. The enduro weighed approx 33lbs and the mojo weighs ~30lbs on the same digital bathroom scales.

    I havent really had time to set it up properley, I set the air pressures in the forks and shock to give roughly the right amount of sag, and set the rebound and compression (on the front) half way to act as a starting point.

    After the quick whiz round the park, I felt that it climbs better than the enduro (no great surprise), but the back end felt skippy over the rough’ish stuff when going downhill, the enduro would have just absorbed it and felt smoother.

    Obviously the suspension needs to break in, and I need to fine tune the setup (maybe a bit less air in the rear, and a bit more rebound), but what do others with the mojo HD think?

    Also, re the float rp23 rear shock , which way is on for the propedal lever? is it on the side of the air valve or the opposite side?

    flow
    Member

    I test rode one in January.

    I couldn’t wait to ride it but when I did I was very disappointed after all the hype they receive. The rear suspension made everything feel as if it had a square edge no matter what sag I set it at.

    geetee1972
    Member

    OK here’s the bad news: this is not the first time I’ve heard reports like this relating to a Mojo HD. My riding buddy (HeiHei) has an HD and he had exactly the same problem. The ‘skipping around’ is exactly what he reported; he also commented that he initially always felt ‘on’ the bike rather than ‘in’ it.

    Now here’s the good news. It’s simply down to set up and it takes time to get it working so that it benefits you.

    It took HeiHei around three months to start to feel comfortable on the bike and even now, six months later, he’s still trying to find the ultimate sweet spot; it works well by all accounts but still he’s not quite getting the same compliance as me and the other guy we ride with are getting. To that end, he’s just ordered a Cane Creek Double Barrel, which is what we run.

    I’ve ridden his bike a few times and each time I ended up setting the rear up to be far softer than I thought I would want. Certainly I’ve never had any pro-pedal on and the sag has been around the 35% or more mark. Set up like that, you sacrifice some pedaling stability (they do move more than the marketing would like you to believe, but then most bikes that work well DH are guilty of that) but the rear over square edge hits is excellent.

    So the two messages, are take your time to get it set up and stick with it, don’t be disheartened. You’ve bought an amazing bike and it will get better the more time you invest to set it up right. The second message is to try running it softer than you might expect; don’t turn the pro-pedal on and run at least 35% sag and see how that goes for you.

    Enjoy.

    Premier Icon vinnyeh
    Subscriber

    Pretty much what gee tee says. Mine (HD140) has ended up with a bit more sag (around 35%), and a bit less rebound damping than I would have expected. It did take a bit of playing around with the settings.

    I rebuilt my 2004 enduro with new bits and although some would say that design is out dated it is still more bike than I will ever need.

    rexated
    Member

    i read somewhere that swapping the rp23 for a pushed rockhox shock made a world of difference – was probably on a mtbr forum (turner or ibis) is you wanted to go looking for the thread…

    good luck with getting it sorted, i’m sure you’ll end up loving it!

    ftr1873
    Member

    If you pop over to MTBR and look at the Ibis forums, there’s guys on there talking about Push’d Rock Shox kit.

    PP is opposite valve as http://www.foxracingshox.com/fox_tech_center/owners_manuals/011/index.html

    Mine felt good to start with but definitely felt better once the suspension had broken in. The rebound control does make a difference and as vinnyeh says a bit less seems the way to go. I’m very happy with the way mine is running at the moment, tracks better than my old Meta and I feel I have moved my riding on a bit.

    Just ride it and play with the settings for a few weeks while it breaks in, then if it still annoys you check out the Push kit, I think it’s TF Tuned in the UK, or contact Mojo for a custom setup on the RP23. My mate done that for his Intense and he reckons it made a world of difference.

    julians
    Member

    Hi all,

    I definately need to tweak the set up, I literally had about 10 minutes last night ,so put it to ball park right and went for a quick ride.

    I thought I’d give everyone an honest review on my experience so far, as a lot of people on here think that nobody says anything bad about the bike they own.

    Good to hear you can improve it, I did suspect I could,I havent written the mojo off yet,I’m actually nowhere near writing it off, but i dont think I’ll be selling the enduro just yet.

    The aim of changing to this bike was to get something that was better up and down hill than the enduro, and also to see whether going ’boutique’ does gain you a significant improvement on a 6 year old ‘mainstream’ bike (ok, the old bike was light years ahead of its time, but its still 6 years old).

    I will spend a bit longer riding a section and tweaking the pressures, rebound etc and report back, my gut feel was lower airpressure and more rebound damping needed.

    Rickos
    Member

    Pro-Pedal is on when the lever is closest to the valve.

    @vinny – HD140 – that’s the HD with the travel adjusted down, right?

    Does that slacken the angles?

    PJM1974
    Member

    I’ve recently resurrected my garage dwelling 2004 Enduro with modern kit and it’s an absolute blast – I’ve commuted to work on it today in fact.

    I have been pondering the very same conclusions as the OP. Despite the fact that it’s a seven year old frame and a decade old design, it seems to take everything I throw at it and feels plenty plush. With wider bars and a Rockshox Revelation up front it feels contemporary and tips the scales at just under 28lb too.

    My only complaint is that I can’t find an RP3 to fit it…

    geetee1972
    Member

    Does that slacken the angles?

    It does but only by a little. The most significant change is that the static BB is lowered. Not sure if that means you end up lower once your sagged into the bike though; you can do the maths.

    The Horst Link design may be ancient relative to modern designs, but it still works really well. There’s a reason why Spesh paid for the patent and why they’ve religiously enforced it.

    Apparently it runs out next year I think, so then anyone and everyone will be able to use it. It will be intersting to see how many companies end up going over to it.

    epicsteve
    Member

    My only complaint is that I can’t find an RP3 to fit it…

    I’ve got an RP2 on my ’04 Enduro and it works very well.

    @geetee – interested in a HD frame myself, if next year’s bonus permits (no, I’m not a banker)… like the idea of having a lower, slacker, shorter travel option. Is it mich hassle to swap between settings?

    Premier Icon vinnyeh
    Subscriber

    It does but only by a little. The most significant change is that the static BB is lowered. Not sure if that means you end up lower once your sagged into the bike though; you can do the maths.

    Not quite that simple- you’re not only changing the shock length, but the placement of the top shock mount- HD140 with a 150 fork is around a degree steeper for both seat and head angles than the HD160 with a 160 fork. There’s next to no difference with bb height- the 140 with 150 fork is less than half an inch lower than the 160, with a longer fork the difference would be less.

    In the real world, if I’m lazy about crank positioning I get an awful lot of pedal strike, otherwise the angles are pretty academic to me- the bike just works really well for me.

    psychle
    Member

    @geetee – interested in a HD frame myself, if next year’s bonus permits (no, I’m not a banker)… like the idea of having a lower, slacker, shorter travel option. Is it mich hassle to swap between settings?

    You’ll need two rear shocks – 7.875″ x 2″ travel for the HD140 and 8.5″ x 2.5″ for the HD160, plus you’ll need a set of ‘limbo chips’, it’s not just a matter of changing the shock mounting point.

    The plan for mine is to run a Vipr for HD140 mode and a Stoy (or maybe a PUSH tuned Vivid R2C for HD160 mode…

    geetee1972
    Member

    Is it mich hassle to swap between settings?

    Well I don’t own the bike myself, but from what I’ve heard from my mate, it’s realtively simple to do. Vinnyeh points out that you’re not just swapping the damper but also the mounting brackets.

    I doubt you’d want to do it every time you ride, but if you were say going to run it in 140mm mode for 80% of the time and then swap out for the occassional DH day, it wouldn’t be too much of a hassle I guess.

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    the enduro would have just absorbed it and felt smoother

    That’s Enduros though isn’t it? I demo’d a 2006 model and downhill it was just as you say.
    I didn’t buy one though because it’s not as much of an allrounder as what I did buy (not a Mojo).

    I_Ache
    Member

    PJM1974

    You should be able to fit either a 7.5×2 or a 7.875×2 shock to a 2004 Enduro. Try a Monarch they are quite good, I have a Monarch Plus on my 06 Enduro and its great.

    mr plow
    Member

    Pointless review until you spend more time on it, especially if you can not tell which way PP on and off is. Ride more, report back.

    Oh. right. I didn’t realise it involved two shocks.

    I can forget that then, there’s no way I’d ever bother.

    PJM1974
    Member

    Ah, I want to find a shock with the correct (7.675″) eye to eye. Too little and it’ll slacken the geometry and lower the BB, too long and it’ll steepen the HA. I find the angles pretty much spot on as they are, I wouldn’t want to mess with it either way.

    A couple of years back I spoke with Mojo who suggested it might be possible to machine the shock body of an RP3 to the correct length, but I opted to have my Float PUSHed at TFT instead.

    julians
    Member

    Mr plow,

    I’ll report back with more feelings when I’ve ridden it more, and tweaked it more, but it sounds like my initial gut feeling isnt miles off the mark going on feedback from geetee etc.

    Sounds like it has quite a narrow sweetspot that might be difficult to find, and outside that sweetspot its not super smooth on the small trail chatter.

    Might post an update later tonight after another ride, but I’m thinking that its not going to descend better than the enduro and the best i can hope for is comparable performance .

    PJM1974
    Member

    Maybe get some more miles in on the Mojo to fully get a feel for it. The RP3 is going to feel a little odd for a while, as there is a very distinct “step” between each of the pro-pedal settings. The RP3 on my Wolf Ridge makes it feel like it’s skipping all over the place if I forget to disengage it on a descent.

    The FSR on Specialized bikes is legendary for it’s plushness, not to mention that they’re very forgiving of imprecise pressure settings (compared with my Marin WR). I suggest there is an element of trial and error.

    mr plow
    Member

    The more you ride the mojo the less you will remember the comparison of the enduro. Within a month you will say it is better so don’t worry about it too much. 😆

    I_Ache
    Member

    PJM1974

    Its only 5mm either way I doubt you would notice it. It probably equates to something like 0.25 degrees.

    epicsteve
    Member

    Ah, I want to find a shock with the correct (7.675″) eye to eye. Too little and it’ll slacken the geometry and lower the BB, too long and it’ll steepen the HA. I find the angles pretty much spot on as they are, I wouldn’t want to mess with it either way.

    I’ve got two shocks for my ’04 Enduro – one is a 200×50 Pro-pedal Vanilla Coil and the other is a 190×50 RP2. The bike is absolutely fine with either, in fact I can’t detect any handling change due to the different shock lengths.

    heihei
    Member

    The HD is certainly not a bike you jump on regardless of set-up and get the best out of, certainly compared with a typical 4-bar say.

    As GT notes, it’s taken me a while to get comfortable with my HD, and to be honest am still not there in the 160mm setting, hence the CCDB order ahead of a trip to the Alps. I have it pretty much dialled in the 140mm setting, running with 160mm forks and a Pushed RP23, and love the way the bike rails due to the low BB height and snappy acceleration.
    I’ll keep you posted as to how the CCDB works!

    julians
    Member

    I spent some more time on it tonight.

    lowered the air pressure from the recommended 200psi to 180psi, and decreased the rebound damping to 3 clicks away from no rebound damping.

    It now sags by about 40% when I’m sat on it, and bobs a bit more under pedalling, but turning on the pro pedal sorts that out.

    Its a lot better now, very nearly as smooth as the enduro, I’m hoping the rest of the smoothness will come as the shock breaks in.

    I need to give it a proper run out on some rougher terrain now and start to get to grips with it.

    heihei, let me know how the ccdb works out, im loath to go that way because of the cost and weight, but interested to hear your experiences still

    flow
    Member

    julians

    Why didn’t you test ride one before buying?

    I mean you would test drive a car right?

    julians
    Member

    flow, I couldnt be bothered with the hassle, and I’m dubious of the value of a quick test ride. I think you need to ride a bike on lots of different rides to get a true picture, which is pretty difficult on a quick test ride.

    If I dont get on with it after giving it a good go, I’ll sell it on, and put it down to experience.

    My conclusion so far (and I caveat this with the fact that I’ve only ridden it twice so I may change my mind one way or the other) is that its a very good bike, probably slightly better than my old enduro and the current 10/11 enduro in an all round sense (but that would depend on what you want from a bike), but its not the second coming of christ that some people and the professional reviews make them out to be, and not light years betters than a 6 year old mainstream bike.

    flow
    Member

    Surely its better than not testing it at all?

    I managed to get one for a whole day.

    infidel
    Member

    @GT: I’m sure the answer here starts with N and ends with icolai?!!

    geetee1972
    Member

    I couldnt be bothered with the hassle, and I’m dubious of the value of a quick test ride. I think you need to ride a bike on lots of different rides to get a true picture, which is pretty difficult on a quick test ride.

    THis is a good point and it relates to the fact that some bikes take a while to get the best out of, something you wouldn’t ever do if you test rode one even all day.

    I understand the value of test riding, but on the basis that you use it to make a decision, probably a lot of people would never end up with something like the Mojo because they wouldn’t think it very good.

    Something like a Nicolai however feels great almost immediately. Whenever HeiHei and I swap bikes, he always comments that my Helius AM just feels ‘right’, even if the spring rate isn’t always perfect.

    Some bikes are just much easier to get on with immediately.

    But, and it’s a big butt, there is a lot of value to be had from some bikes that you don’t immediately gel with.

    The Mojo HD is DH capable (remember it’s the bike that Lopes ran at the World CHamps in Australia when Peaty won), it can take a 180mm fork or be run with a 140mm fork as a trail ripper and it will still easily build into a sub 30lb bike (HeiHei’s weighs just on 27lbs IIRC).

    Plus the suspension action of the Mojo HD is a bit better over bigger square edge hits than my Nic. My Nic is more accessible and much more ‘neutral’ in the way it feels, but it’s also almost 2lbs heavier.

    I wouldn’t give it up of course, not yet anyway.

    I think the Mojo HD moves the game on in a big way primarily because of it’s strenght and weight and versatility. But suspension design is more of a moot point.

    Euro
    Member

    Having to run at 140mm travel bike at 35-40% sag to get it to ‘work’ doesn’t sound too clever to my untrained ears.

    Either the frame is a turkey or people are expecting the bike to do all the work for them.

    geetee1972
    Member

    Either the frame is a turkey or people are expecting the bike to do all the work for them.

    Euro what do you mean? I’m not sure why running a bike with 35% sag is a bad thing?

    I’ve pretty much always run my bike like this and it only seems to make me go faster.

    Euro
    Member

    I’m not sure either 😆

    Just seems a bit odd to have to run a 5″ trail bike with 3″ of usable travel for it to feel ‘right’. I’d expect a DH bike to be running at around the 30-35% mark. But that still leaves a fair few inches to soak everything up.

    Suppose it’s a personal thing really. I requested TF to set the sag on my 6′ forks and shock at 25% when they worked on them for my Supreme. I’d consider this more XC territory, but i’m fairly smooth with jumps/drops etc and was wary of eating up too much travel for the bumpy stuff by just sitting on my bike 😕

    geetee1972
    Member

    That’s a good explanation. To be honest I do see your point entirely; if you have to go to such great lengths to make the design work for you, then maybe the design is compromised?

    It will be really interesting to see what the manufacturers do when the patent on the Horst Link expires next year (if I am right about that). While everyone has been saying/marketing their own design as the next best thing, simple economics will tell us whether they’ve been telling the truth or not.

    If the Horst Link really is the best design, everyone will start using it, or at least their differentiated version (marketing will still be crucial to differentiate in the market).

    Euro
    Member

    geetee1972 – Member

    …if you have to go to such great lengths to make the design work for you, then maybe the design is compromised?

    Possibly, but maybe the OP is trying too hard to make the Mojo feel like his old bike. There’s bound to be vast differences when riding a presumably tired (6+ yr old) Enduro rear end to a spangely new one. I’d suggest putting the shock back to as close as factory as possible and ride it for a week or two. Either Julians will get used to it and ‘learn’ how to get the best from it, or at least have a better idea of what needs changed.

    flow
    Member

    Bikes that feel “right” straight away generally are. I test rode loads and ended up buying a Five (the most hated bike on STW) because it felt right straight away and still felt right after 7 hours riding it on the test.

    One thing I will never do again is buy a bike without riding it. I made this mistake with my EX9, I purchased it based on the reviews. Don’t get me wrong it was a decent bike, just not for me.

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