1×10 or 1×9 Is there anybody else that does not need dinner plate cassettes?

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  • 1×10 or 1×9 Is there anybody else that does not need dinner plate cassettes?
  • Premier Icon mrblobby
    Subscriber

    You need more muscle to turn a bigger gear, but don’t need to generate any more power. Power depends on the speed of the bike not the cadence. So, climbing with a higher gear seems hard at first, but once you’ve built up the required muscles it doesn’t actually take any more effort to climb at the same speed with a lower cadence.

    It’s the difference between power and torque that’s important. A higher cadence taxes the CV system and a lower cadence with a big gear taxes the big leg muscles, one is more sustainable than the other.

    Premier Icon skellnonch
    Subscriber

    I’ve had a sore lower back for the past few months. Only sore enough to keep me off the bike on a few occasions, but permanently sore. The only thing that I can think that I’ve changed is this switch to lower cadence climbing (although it could just be a coincidence)

    That’ll be pushing that big gear up the hill then

    joefm
    Member

    I run a 1x 9 with 32t on the front.

    I manage but by the end of the day it would be nice to have a more spinny rear cog. Just waiting for my x9 to wear out

    But you have to spin like crazy or you are going so slow that you have no forward momentum?

    Depends on how fast you’re comfortable spinning – and if you’re doing a massive climb at the end of a long day then moving slowly is better than not moving at all. I run 1×10 (34t 11-36) but I’m not sure if I would have it on everything if I lived somewhere with bigger hills/mountains or did long days or longer trips of riding frequently. 4 hour rides averaging just over 1000ft climbing per 10 miles seems to be my regular upper limit due to life getting in the way of more bike time…

    deanfbm
    Member

    Does anyone else find that a low gear, especially to the degree of a granny ring doesn’t actually make things any easier, it just drags out the pain because they’re going slower?

    If im not getting up in my 34/36 gear, im not getting up in a 22/36 gear.

    GEDA
    Member

    So are you saying that you do hills steeper than the quarry switch backs on Honister? I am impressed.

    scu98rkr
    Member

    I’d quite like an 11-40 tooth with a 38T front chainring.

    with 11-36 i either find I struggle to get up hills or I spin out on the road one or the other.

    GEDA
    Member

    Another problem is that I spin out on the downs with a small ring.

    Premier Icon weeksy
    Subscriber

    GEDA – Member

    Another problem is that I with a small ring you spin out on the downs

    so not only are you great and better than everyone going uphill, you’re also quicker than everyone downhill too ?

    I rekon to spin out on a 34T front you’d need to be doing 25mph everywhere.

    Premier Icon skellnonch
    Subscriber

    Does anyone else find that a low gear, especially to the degree of a granny ring doesn’t actually make things any easier, it just drags out the pain because they’re going slower?

    I’d rather ride a bit slower than walk, very much horses for courses & depends what you are riding, what do you do on technical climbs, get off because the terrain wont allow you to push a big gear? Also depends on fatigue, you can start like a hero on a big day out but after manning it up the climbs all day you may feel different by the end.

    Personally 30/36 seems like a good compromise for me, I’m not big into riding on tarmac

    Another problem is that I with a small ring you spin out on the downs.

    Exactly why I run a triple still.

    Tried double and bash years ago and came back to a triple – gives the correct range of gears for my liking.

    clubber
    Member

    You need more muscle to turn a bigger gear, but don’t need to generate any more power. Power depends on the speed of the bike not the cadence. So, climbing with a higher gear seems hard at first, but once you’ve built up the required muscles it doesn’t actually take any more effort to climb at the same speed with a lower cadence.

    From a physics POV you’re correct but human bodies don’t linearly. For example, you can’t run a marathon at sprinting pace even though you’re covering the same distance.

    Working at different cadence means you’re using different systems to power the bike – low cadence will work your muscles harder. For some people this is less of an issue than for others. Using low cadence though will typically cause fade during longer rides.

    Anyway, the point is that you can clearly manage relatively big gears which presumably suits your physique. As it goes, I’m much the same though I’ve taught myself to spin more as it’s more efficient for longer rides. Being able to spin up a hill at high cadence looks a bit silly sometimes but if you’re doing it smoothly it can be a very good way to do it.

    Premier Icon mrblobby
    Subscriber

    So are you saying that you do hills steeper than the quarry switch backs on Honister? I am impressed.

    Different people climb things in different ways. Lighter, less muscly riders will likely spin a smaller gear. Riders who rely more on leg strength may be more comfortable slowly pushing a big gear. Either way can be just as quick. Just watch a peloton climb a hill and some will be grinding a big ring, others spinning the smaller ring.

    From a physics POV you’re correct but human bodies don’t linearly.

    Same power but turning force (torque) requirements are very different.

    deanfbm
    Member

    Never got the issue with spinning out.

    Considering that pro dh racer will be on something around a 38t chainring, who here would be approaching those speeds off road?

    If you spin out on road, it’s time for manual/hop/nollie/what ever other dicking about you fancy doing.

    Different people ride in different ways and want different things out of riding.

    I couldn’t give a monkeys if I didn’t make it up the steep, slow climb, on the down, I try and pedal as little as possible, all speed generated through pump and line reading. It’s different to an off road rider, one isn’t better than the other if you’re having fun.

    But you have to spin like crazy or you are going so slow that you have no forward momentum?

    ‘spin like crazy is relative though’

    1:1 at 40rpm is about 2m/s (the absolute slowest I can reasnobly pedal for a short period).

    3:4 (30t-40t) would be 53rpm (or I could drop to 1.3m/s which is walking speed).

    Basicly XX1 or similar just makes climbs which you could just about do in normal gears more comfortable, and over 40+miles I’d definately apreciate that. To pick a well known trail, I can ride the XC climb at Innerleithen in 32-36, but it broke me, especialy on the back of doing the Black/Red/Blue at GT in the preceding 24 hours, and sleeping uner a hedge, being able to do it at 60rpm would have made it much more plesant.

    ndthornton
    Member

    But you have to spin like crazy or you are going so slow that you have no forward momentum?

    News flash
    A multi-chainring x 34T setup has 3 gears lower than 32×36

    they aint all walking speed

    Premier Icon FOG
    Subscriber

    I know this is a heretical suggestion for STW but we are all different and one solution does not work for all. I am an old bloke and need all the help I can get to reach the top of any hill. No amount of training and skills teaching are going to compensate for the fact that I don’t have the ability that has been lost to age. If I was younger I would undoubtedly go for a 1×10/11 set up but now I need low gears!

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Subscriber

    I’ve Taken a bit of an analytical approach, I’ve worked up spreadsheets and I’ve been thinking in Gear inches for a while now, I’ve come to the broad conclusion that I personally need something in about the 80-20 Inch range (My current 2×9 Drivetrain exceeds this at either end (about 85-18).

    I think the 1xN option with a Dinner plate is Very nearly there, A fancy pants XX1/X01 10-42 cassette with a 32t ring would meet my required range (Just not my budget) And if I were to go with one of the various products out there that squeezes a 42t onto a current 10 speed cassette(or 9 I suppose) I could balance the gearing to one end or the other of my optimal range, there still has to be a bit of a compromise I guess…

    Some people are fit enough to work in a narrower, higher geared range I suppose, others are less bothered about having high gears and will fit a 30T to match the range to their ability/inability to grunt up in a tall gear…

    I quite like the fact that 1xN drivetrains can be refined to suit their users needs a little more closely now…

    I’m now eying up the idea of a 34T Chainring and a bodged 11-42 cassette at the minute, a clogged front mech and a bent chainring last weekend has precipitated things a bit… I’ll probably leave the granny on for winching emergencies though…

    Horses for courses IMO, its easy to rubbish others riding and equipment choices, quite another thing to stop and actually think about weather or not what you use actually suits your needs or could be improved… (IMO of course).

    belugabob
    Member

    I like dinnerplate cassettes because they reflect my culinary habits 😉

    I may need one of these to climb a hill, but I don’t need the higher gears for going down the other side, as I have my own in-built ‘Gravity Assist’

    Premier Icon fathomer
    Subscriber

    deanfbm – Member

    one isn’t better than the other if you’re having fun.

    This, as long as peopole are out riding bikes, having fun, who cares what gearing they’re using! 😀

    clubber
    Member

    The Bike Police of course!

    Premier Icon fathomer
    Subscriber

    Ah, sorry I forgot about them!

    gdj001
    Member

    Where do those who can’t possibly run 1×10 because it’s far too steep where they ride actually live / ride?

    I think you’d be surprised by how quickly you adapt to 1×10 and how much quicker you ride. I always used the granny but when I went 1×10 I realised I only used it because it was there.

    clubber
    Member

    But maybe you’re faster because it suits you and you ride places where the lack of a granny ring isn’t an issue…

    benjii19
    Member

    Well this is scaring me.

    Raceface thick/thin 32t with 11-36 (10speed) has been ordered and is currently being fitted…….

    after reading this I may never make it up a climb again!

    gdj001
    Member

    clubber – ride in south Wales so pretty hilly with plenty of climbing. You can still spin with a 32 chainring and 11-36 cassette

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    Does anyone else find that a low gear, especially to the degree of a granny ring doesn’t actually make things any easier, it just drags out the pain because they’re going slower?

    Agreed, that’s what I found on local stuff or climbs that aren’t silly-steep/techy anyway. And after a period of adjustment/pain. On a SS for ex, you use momentum and just get on with it so the need for lower gears is reduced. But there’s always stuff you can’t get up or days when the miles have taken a toll.

    Spinning out? Agreed again, time to think about flow or pumping for speed and not worry about pedalling, or find a more technical descent.

    As for triples vs 42T dinnerplates and SS etc, gearing is variable, to state the obvious.. do what you like.

    maxtorque
    Member

    I’m at the other end of the spectrum, i’d like to try a 22:42 setup! 😉

    I think a lot of rider, and mountain bikers in particular say “if i can’t get up it with X:X then i couldn’t also get up in with Y:Y” are often missing the point that their gearing is not what is preventing them getting up said hill!
    Doing some proper road biking turbo or rollers work really makes you concentrate on proper pedaling technique, and the difference in power and traction is marked (compared to standing up, and just mashing down the pedals one at a time)

    I’ve no idea with what cadence a world class XC racer climbs with, but i suspect it’s higher than about 50rpm?

    ndthornton
    Member

    Does anyone else find that a low gear, especially to the degree of a granny ring doesn’t actually make things any easier, it just drags out the pain because they’re going slower?

    nope
    I can spin all day

    thomthumb
    Member

    32:36-12 1×9 is fine for me. Made it up snowdon rangers – rode 30-50%. It mostly wasn’t lack gears holding me back.

    ran 36:32 on a dmr sidekick (too small for xc really) for a while – didn’t struggle on too much local stuff or indeed welsh stuff – had to walk a bit bus was still faster than granny gear riders.

    Premier Icon BigDummy
    Subscriber

    There aren’t any 2-3 hour granny ring climbs near where I live. But I don’t really have the 150mm FS bike for the trails near where I live either.

    Personally, I need a granny ring for big days out, so I have one on my bi days out bike. 🙂

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    big dummy you have a bi bike?

    I think all my bikes are straight, but I do wonder about my Kona Bear

    I’ve come to this discussion a bit late but do feel the need to answer the 5th post on page 1

    alpin – Member
    be interested to see how the OP fairs on long 2-3 hour alpine climbs with average gradient at 15%…..

    chain left!

    Who actually spends their time and money to take a mountain bike to the Alps to ride UP the hills when there’s a fantastic lift system that lets you get in far more of the fun stuff than you ever would otherwise? I rode up an Alp off road once but never would again. Not because it hurt (it didn’t) but because it seemed like such a waste of time. Tarmac and road bikes are far more pleasurable if you want to ride up big hills

    I’m managing 1:1 (36:36) on my local hills for 3 hours. But I struggle on longer rides in big country.

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk5SkiBna24[/video]

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Mostly Balanced – Member

    Who actually spends their time and money to take a mountain bike to the Alps to ride UP the hills when there’s a fantastic lift system that lets you get in far more of the fun stuff than you ever would otherwise?

    We did this in the Pyrenees. it was, to be fair, pretty retarded.

    dirtydog
    Member

    Op, what do you weigh?

    chico66
    Member

    I’m not quite sure what I’m trying to say here but is there some sort of correlation between fitness and strength? I’ve recently changed my 22t granny for a 28t to remove the safety net a bit to see if I could get away with 1 x 10.
    Sure, it’s a little harder but I’m basically having to walk the same steep bits as before. It’s not that I can’t turn the pedals, I simply run out of puff, again as before. I’m more of a grinder, I rarely stand up.
    Does there come a point where it’s not that you’re out of puff, it’s that you can’t turn the pedals? Is there some sort of sweet spot?

    Premier Icon schmiken
    Subscriber

    I run two 650 bikes – 1×10 (34 x 11-36|) on my race bike, which admittedly can be a bit of a grunt on a few courses in the UK, and 2×10 (28/40 x 11-36) on my full sus. There’s more than a few climbs I can’t clean in the Peak District on the HT, but can climb ok with the full sus.

    I’d be very tempted by 1×11 if it didn’t cost so much to do both bikes!

    I’m with GEDA on this.
    36 chainring with 11-34 covers everything as far as I’m concerned.
    Race bike now sporting 36/15 singlespeed which is brutal but my god it’s quick!

    maxtorque
    Member

    For the average MTBer, who rides enough to have “strong legs” i suspect o2 fitness is probably the limiting factor to short sharp climbs, (i.e ones of less than say 10min duration) They (and i include me in this!) simply haven’t trained at a high enough heartrate/o2 exchange to keep outputing that level of power. The recent Guy Martin “Speed” series showed just that. Ie pretty strong and powerful for short bursts but not being able to keep that level of output up. The advantage of granny gears at that point is that for non technical long climbs you can just spin up them at a low speed (= low power) without getting off your bike.

    Certainly i found when i started doing triathlons that even though i was what i would call a ‘fairly’ fit biker, i simply didn’t have the breathing and cardiac performance over say a 1hr or longer stage.

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