13 yo daughter and deciding on the hpv vaccine.

Home Forum Chat Forum 13 yo daughter and deciding on the hpv vaccine.

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  • 13 yo daughter and deciding on the hpv vaccine.
  • Premier Icon I_did_dab
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    Thalidamide is a strange example, the drug itself in one form works perfectly, it’s Chiral opposite causes the problems.

    This is factually incorrect despite turning up in organic chemistry textbooks. The enantiomers of thalidomide interconvert rapidly at the pH of blood so you could never test anything other than a racemate.
    Thanks for letting me get that off my chest…

    Premier Icon cheshirecat
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    Recently read Bad Science, and am in the middle of Bad Pharma. It seems to me that Ben Goldacre was fairly complimentary about the drugs companies that signed up to the trials register (GlaxoWellcome was one I think), and was disparaging when they pulled out after a merger with Smithkline. He’s hugely in favour of open information on trials (positive and negative), and unimpressed with hidden trials and statistical manipulation.

    Bad Science is a great book – should be a standard text for kids. Encourage them to look behind sensationalist headlines.

    To the OP, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, my friend’s wife was diagnosed with cervical cancer basically during the birth of their daughter, and died soon after. The HPV vaccine (had it been available then) may have prevented the cancer and my friend’s daughter may have a mother now.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
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    This is factually incorrect despite turning up in organic chemistry textbooks. The enantiomers of thalidomide interconvert rapidly at the pH of blood so you could never test anything other than a racemate.
    Thanks for letting me get that off my chest…

    I stand corrected (and happy to be – thats science), but back to the other point is it’s back in use today.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
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    “I’ve tried homeopathic medicines but he’s not got any better”

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0[/video]

    iolo
    Member

    Homeopathy works for some. Not for me. Acupuncture works for some. Not for me. Natural herbs work for some. Not for me.
    Without my medication I would be unable to live a normal life, be unable to leave the house, end up in hospital (again) and possibly try to commit suicide (again).
    Good luck to you guys with your natural medications. I’m sure they work but not for me.
    My point is if something is clinically proven to help just bloody take it.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
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    Homeopathy works for some. Not for me.

    And don’t use it to clean your loo either 😀

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KX8C3H4Oaw[/video]

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
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    Homeopathy works for some.

    Well, no. It’s no better than placebo, as that’s exactly what it is.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
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    To be fair I think the rest of his post suggests that iolo actually meant:

    Homeopathy works for some.

    Premier Icon martinhutch
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    I think it works quite well for homeopaths.

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
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    To be fair I think the rest of his post suggests that iolo actually meant

    Point taken, however acupuncture may work (though not for everyone, and not for me either), and herbal remedies (ie. St Johns’ Wort) do have some effect.

    Homeopathy, OTOH, is utter quackery, and doesn’t work for anyone.

    iolo
    Member

    If a placebo makes someone feel better is it a bad thing? When mummy kisses her sons elbow and he stops crying is this a medical thing?
    St. John’s wort was the worst possible thing I ever took which sent me batshit crazy. Don’t give it to a Bipolar sufferer.

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
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    No, of course placebo is no bad thing. My objection to homeopathy is that there is lots of robust evidence it doesn’t work, little that it does work, and it’s hugely expensive for what is distilled water. There is a disaster relief charity called Homepaths Without Borders, and this is beneath contempt.

    St John’s Wort has well-documented effects.

    Anyway, me ranting about the evils of the distilled water peddlars is getting a bit off topic.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
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    If a placebo makes someone feel better is it a bad thing?

    That rather depends if it is just making them feel better whilst the underlying cause is still killing them.

    Skint elbow is one thing. Cancer is another.

    I have had treatment twice for abnormal cells (CIN2) on my cervix and I have HPV.

    Once you have it, it can stay dormant and never actually clear up. the body may get rid of it on its own, but it doesn’t always.

    I had very unpleasant treatment to remove the changed cervical cells, including a biopsy with no anaesthetic and then a LLETZ treatment which basically burns them off. My first abnormal smear was at 23, which is only 10 years older than the OPs daughter, and I was treated a year later. My second treatment at age 27 – I got infected afterwards and my cervix is scarred, and is now hypersensitive.

    I now have to have smear tests every year, I bleed every time and it’s very painful after the two treatments, not to mention that having a very sensitive cervix affects, ahem, other things. I dread having another abnormal one and having to go through it all again, but of course if it happens then that’s what will have to be done in order to stop it turning cancerous.

    Sorry for any squeamishness on the part of the men, but that’s what women have to deal with when they have abnormal cells due to HPV infection and I would like that the OP is informed about this before he makes any final decision regarding whether his daughter is vaccinated or not. I sure as hell wish there had been one when I was that age.

    I sometimes wonder if men don’t want their daughters to have this vaccine because they can’t handle the idea of them having sex, ever, so they WANT an excuse to say no to it and not have to deal with it. And of course, there is an association of HPV with promiscuity, even though you need only have one partner who has been infected to get it yourself, so some people think that the women who have to go through this probably deserve it because they are sluts anyway, if they’ve ended up with a sexually transmitted infection.

    iolo
    Member

    @graham, I never said anything about healing cancer with sugar pills.
    My post was to take whatever medicine or vaccination to ensure the illness, whatever it might be, is either controlled or treated.

    clanton
    Member

    I am a small animal veterinarian. I give literally dozens of vaccines every day. In 13 years I have seen fewer than 10 serious adverse reactions.

    Being a vet and a keen traveller I have also received far more vaccines than the average person – my wife, also a vet, has too. We are both quite fit and well despite these dreadfully toxic things.

    My daughter who is now 11 months has had all her vaccines to date and I’m sure in time will have her HPV vaccine too.

    I think in the Western World it is very easy to forget just how serious the diseases are which have now largely disappeared. I have dealt with rabies and distemper cases (both of these fairly well eradicated in the UK) and still see parvovirus – which is preventable IF animals are vaccinated.

    Vaccines are not without risks. No medical intervention is. By and large though these risks through are tiny compared to the diseases they prevent.

    Premier Icon molgrips
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    I sometimes wonder if men don’t want their daughters to have this vaccine because they can’t handle the idea of them having sex

    That’s part of the public opposition in the US, within a religious framework. As in, our kids should not be having sex, and they should only sleep with one person, so why should we support them doing anything else?

    That’s part of the public opposition in the US, within a religious framework. As in, our kids should not be having sex, and they should only sleep with one person, so why should we support them doing anything else?

    The thing is, that one person they sleep with could have slept with one other person who had HPV….even if the girlie is a wee angel, the boy might not be, or vice versa!

    Premier Icon molgrips
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    Of course – you don’t have to tell me how stupid the idea is!

    Premier Icon cheshirecat
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    And don’t use it to clean your loo either

    Beginner’s mistake. He’s supposed to put the solution into a special flask, and strike it 10 times against a special leather and horsehair mat. Only then will the water remember the bleach molecules…..

    Good thing he didn’t, or the homeopathic bleach could have killed him 🙂

    Of course – you don’t have to tell me how stupid the idea is!

    Lol – I saw “US” and “religious” in the sentence and I figured! 😉

    Premier Icon GrahamS
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    Good thing he didn’t, or the homeopathic bleach could have killed him

    Makes you wonder why there have never been any homeopathic terrorist attacks eh? Pretty easy to sneak 1 picolitre of something nasty into a public water reservoir! 😆

    Premier Icon Cougar
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    Spotted this this morning and thought it would help those still on the fence.

    http://theconversation.com/six-myths-about-vaccination-and-why-theyre-wrong-13556

    theflatboy
    Member

    What was the outcome of the original decision here, out of interest? Still holding off or got the jab?

    rockhopper70
    Member

    Held off for now.
    We’ll be looking into this in due course but I appreciate the debate this thread started.

    Premier Icon onewheelgood
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    those of you who Facebook might like to look at the Anti Vax Wall of Shame – but I warn you, there is some frightening stuff on there.

    restless
    Member

    Of course, you could always ask your daughters what they want.

    At 13 yrs old, I know myself and most other girls were quite self aware and if my mum signed for me to have an injection that I did not want, there is no way I would have had it!

    I cant imagine the wishes of the girls are not asked about!

    Premier Icon prettygreenparrot
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    Held off for now.
    We’ll be looking into this in due course but I appreciate the debate this thread started.

    vaccinate now. I’d be really surprised if some further evidence emerged to either put you off or encourage you.

    HPV is also linked to head & neck cancers. http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdFact-HPVandoralcancer.htm. albeit ones with a more favourable prognosis than non-HPV related ones.

    Premier Icon kimbers
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    6079smith your links are absolute bobbins -the study they refer too seems to be a complete fiction-and dumping stuff like that a a thread about vaccinating a someone against a cancer causing virus would be laughable if it wasn’t so damaging

    Markie
    Member

    Snopes debunk 6079smithw’s scaremongering here:

    http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/gardasil.asp

    Which in part reads:

    The CDC, in conjunction with the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), operates a program known as the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). The VAERS program collects and analyzes reports on adverse events following immunizations in order to help track the safety and efficacy of various vaccines. It is important to note that reports collected by VAERS are raw data; they do not in themselves establish causal connections between vaccines and adverse medical issues — such determinations cannot be made until the reports have been investigated, evaluated, and analyzed.

    (To illustrate this concept, we offer the following [admittedly far-fetched] scenario: A man who received a flu vaccination and then accidentally hit his hand with a hammer a few hours later might legitimately report that soon after he received the flu vaccine, his hand began to throb painfully. Although such a report would be literally true, it would not establish any causal connection between the flu vaccine and the adverse medical symptom of a throbbing, painful hand.)
    Read more at http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/gardasil.asp#MvrJyOIeToiBOoox.99

    Sorry I can’t sort the line spacing in the quote!

    crankboy
    Member

    I expect it would be tasteless and too big a task to post pictures of the thousands of girls and women who have lost their lives to cancer . So I will just point out that 6079smithw’s link is to an American right wing website and intact only documents one death in relation to which it says there was no autopsy so despite the claimed link to the vaccine no evidence just a perverse form of wishful thinking.

    Premier Icon hoodoo
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    If you have any doubts about vaccination then Penn & Teller explain it very simply.

    Of course, you could always ask your daughters what they want.

    At 13 yrs old, I know myself and most other girls were quite self aware and if my mum signed for me to have an injection that I did not want, there is no way I would have had it!

    I cant imagine the wishes of the girls are not asked about!

    Hell no, when it comes to their teenage daughters, a lot of fathers believe they are the guardians of their daughters’ sexuality, and therefore they just stick their fingers in their ears and go “la la la” when faced with anything that points to their daughters having future sexual activity.

    All this scaremongering about vaccines comes from the American right, who have exactly the views above. They love a bit of Bible bashing, and you only have to read a few choice verses from there about how basically women are morally f***ed and have to repent their sins through the pain of childbirth and subservience to men. Punishment for sexual activity outside the prescribed Bible belt LifeScript(TM) is part of the deal, and since they believe that this vaccine promotes promiscuity, they prefer to believe that cervical cancer is a punishment for “promiscuous women” hence they will bash and discredit it all they can to try and prevent women having more agency, and choice, about their own bodies.

    What women want rarely comes into it.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
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    they believe that this vaccine promotes promiscuity, they prefer to believe that cervical cancer is a punishment for “promiscuous women”

    Really is an odd attitude eh?

    I mean, even if you buy into that interesting moral framework – their pure virginal daughters still risk contracting HPV when they get married and have good honest intercourse (procreative purposes only obviously) with their loving devoted husband?

    Premier Icon footflaps
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    I mean, even if you buy into that interesting moral framework – their pure virginal daughters still risk contracting HPV when they get married and have good honest intercourse (procreative purposes only obviously) with their loving devoted husband?

    Sadly, I think they believe that God will spare them and diseases only affect people of lose morals / atheists..

    Sadly, I think they believe that God will spare them and diseases only affect people of lose morals / atheists..

    Sadly, these people ARE this delusional.

    Anything that gives women greater choice, protection, and agency over what happens to their bodies is opposed.

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