11spd XTR – BOOOOM

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  • 11spd XTR – BOOOOM
  • Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    Having seen all the leaks it’s like opening a birthday present when you’d already had a good look at it when you found it hidden at the bottom of their wardrobe.

    It’s what I expected but there’s a sense of disappointment too.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    That is a hideous crankset. Last seen as a particularily bad wheel choice on a vw golf.

    Dear Shimano, all we actually wanted was a bigger 10-speed cassette. That’d give us practically all of the benefits, for £40. Instead you’ve given us a smaller gear range than I already have using existing parts. So you can stick your 11-speed up your arse. Too late, too expensive, too pointless.

    brakes
    Member

    Last seen as a particularily bad wheel choice on a vw golf.

    that’s exactly what I thought! reminded me of old-skool aftermarket VW Beetle alloys.
    but my response was “oooo, rather nice”.

    I agree on the 11 speed though.

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
    Subscriber

    Side swing is interesting, pity I’ve not had a front mech on a mtb for about 6 years

    10sp or 11sp 40t rear cassette in Slx price/flavour please Mr Shimano

    patriotpro
    Member

    That crank does look odd, it looks heavy and like something you’d find on a supermarket bike.

    Failing to get excited about any of the rest. SRAM FTW.

    Premier Icon frogstomp
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    Northwind wrote:

    That is a hideous crankset. Last seen as a particularily bad wheel choice on a vw golf.

    I’m going to wait until they do a Ronal Teddy Bear version…

    scruff
    Member

    22/40 😛

    mrblobby
    Member

    Feels like a bit of a “we know better than our customers” fail to me.

    That chainset, I wonder how the chainrings attach? Can’t see any obvious bolts. All looks a bit proprietary to me which would put me off.

    Also thought we were getting a Di2 option with the new XTR?

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    What northwind said ugly cranks (not that I particularly GAS about looks) and spectacularly missed the boat not doing at the very least 11-42 if not 10-42.

    All looks a bit proprietary to me which would put me off

    already a custom BCD so who cares about how they attach

    22-30-40t

    WTF? 22X40 seems rather low even for me (and I like low gears) what’s the point dragging around a whole triple chainset and 11spd cassettes if your gear spread is narrower (and arguably less useful) than a standard 3×9?

    Premier Icon wwaswas
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    spectacularly missed the boat not doing at the very least 11-42 if not 10-42

    but keeping it fitting existing freehub standards will probably lead to a wider take up when this filters down to XT and SLX in the next couple of years?

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    but keeping it fitting existing freehub standards will probably lead to a wider take up

    yep this is the 1 good thing about it, but as I can already get 11-42 with 10spd the lack of a 42t on an 11 spd cassette seems a pretty big fail to me

    and they are fannying around with enough standards so keeping this one (which is probably overdue and upgrade – alloy freehub mangling) is daft

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
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    At the heart of Shimano’s M9000 and M9020 groups is the concept of rhythm and range. One can easily see that Shimano’s 1x system doesn’t have the spread of their competitor;s wide range cassette, but in typical Shimano fashion the M9000 is all about system engineering and producing the most efficient drivetrain possible. Everyone wants to know about the 1x option of the new XTR so we’ll start with the new HG-X11 11-40 cassette.

    And out with the Bull and the SHIT really early

    edit…
    heavy cranks, not carbon, no proper range and still using/selling a front mech

    brakes
    Member

    so, to get around the narrow freehub, they’ve made a dinnerplate big cog and bent it around the spokes?
    I’ll stick to my 32 x 11-32 9-spd thanks,

    sorry but shimano lost out to SRAM on this, missed a massive massive amount of sales due to xx1 and will continue to do so IMO

    xx1 looks better, relatively cheap (compared to even current xtr 10speed stuff), and it just works

    the new xtr cranks look truly awful, massive step sideways given there are already hope 40t/one up 40t rings on the market, how on earth is that going to be a gain over just adjusting your current 10speed to a hope 40t or similar?!

    Premier Icon bearnecessities
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    Chainset inspiration from 90’s BMW alloys?

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Fair point, the cranks would look alright on a beetle.

    mrblobby
    Member

    Shimano feels that if you need more range than the 1x system you are better off with the new Trail 2x crank which offers drastically improved performance, especially from the front derailleur.

    SRAM must be having a bloody good laugh about this 🙂

    Premier Icon edd
    Subscriber

    The salient points for me are:

    Rather than using a narrow-wide design made popular by many manufacturers, Shimano created teeth that are wider and taller than the standard tooth and also includes a hook to the front, all of which helps keep the chain in check. Sounds interesting (in a good way).

    and one of the main benefits of the cassettes is that it fits on standard Shimano freehub bodies without any new parts. This has to be a good thing especially when (as pointed out above) it trickles down to XT/ SLX/ Deore level.

    EDIT: I would also expect that the XT/ SLX/ Deore level cassettes will have an 11-42t option.

    Premier Icon lawman91
    Subscriber

    Am I the only one who is actually looking forward to trying this out? Sure you can bodge a 10 speed set up to have the same or greater range, but it’s just that, a bodge. This will trickle down to xt/slx within the next year, and if the pricing is similar to what it is now it will be a bargain at those levels. Keeps the standard freehub which is nice and I personally don’t think the chainset looks all that bad, pretty sure people said the same about the last gen xtr cranks when they were launched…

    plus XTR is aimed at the XC racer to start off with (not weekend warrior), and presently i bet 9/10 racers are already running xx1, so doubt very much they will go to xtr and lose the 42t and 10t

    doesnt make much sense, they may as well have just stuck with 10speed, but made a nice new cassette instead

    and ill say it again, that crankset is absolutly gopping!

    mrblobby
    Member

    Crankset actually looks a bit better in these photos.

    Still wondering where the Di2 is?

    Rather than using a narrow-wide design made popular by many manufacturers, Shimano created teeth that are wider and taller than the standard tooth and also includes a hook to the front, all of which helps keep the chain in check. Sounds interesting (in a good way).

    This ^^ would have sounded interesting if the current glut of NW chainrings didn’t do the job very well already.

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    reckon I’ll be keeping atleast one double chainset for the foreseeable so new F mech technology is a plus, assuming they don’t wear out even faster than bottom swing mechs (top swing lasted for ever) which I’ll admit is a massive feat of optimism on my part.

    EDIT: I would also expect that the XT/ SLX/ Deore level cassettes will have an 11-42t option.

    fingers crossed

    philfive
    Member

    could you not just use your existing 10 speed crank and just buy 11 speed cassette, derailer, chain and shifter?

    I like the idea of 34 up front and 11-40 at the rear. i suppose i could that for less with a t-rex sprocket.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    lawman91 – Member

    Am I the only one who is actually looking forward to trying this out? Sure you can bodge a 10 speed set up to have the same or greater range, but it’s just that, a bodge.

    What’s bodgy about it? Have you used it?

    Premier Icon lawman91
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    What’s bodgy about it? Have you used it?

    I personally haven’t but a few folks at the LBS have been using the Hope adapters and while shifting is acceptable they say they a)miss the 17t cog and b) shifting in the lower cogs can be a little less smooth on some bike/mech set ups. It’s a good option no doubt, but given the choice I’d rather have something designed for the purpose. Current mechs were never designed for 40/42t cassettes, makes me wonder of the long term effects it could have on them. It’s all well if it works for a few months but in a years time if the mechs scrap it’s not great imo. As I personally I haven’t tried, but I’m kinda sceptical for now.

    If Shimano had released XT or SLX 11 soeed first I doubt any of us would be having this conversation though!

    Premier Icon lawman91
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    could you not just use your existing 10 speed crank and just buy 11 speed cassette, derailer, chain and shifter?

    Of course you could. XTR is going to be expensive, whether it’s 11 speed, 10 speed 7 speed… you get the idea. It will trickle down soon.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    lawman91 – Member

    I personally haven’t but a few folks at the LBS have been using the Hope adapters and while shifting is acceptable they say they a)miss the 17t cog and b) shifting in the lower cogs can be a little less smooth on some bike/mech set ups

    They should change the cog then, it costs a couple of quid. I can’t speak for the Hope but the shifting on the OnOne is just as good as standard (it sounds a little worse onto the 42 but it shifts clean and crisp, on and off)

    Premier Icon njee20
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    presently i bet 9/10 racers are already running xx1, so doubt very much they will go to xtr and lose the 42t and 10t

    It’s not that universal actually, single ring is prolific certainly, but plenty are just using 11-36 cassettes.

    This will be hugely popular I’m sure, I’m not convinced you’ll get people with XX1 selling up and moving over, but I’m not seeing it as “a lanslide victory for SRAM”.

    Premier Icon lawman91
    Subscriber

    It’s not that universal actually, single ring is prolific certainly, but plenty are just using 11-36 cassettes.

    This will be hugely popular I’m sure, I’m not convinced you’ll get people with XX1 selling up and moving over, but I’m not seeing it as “a lanslide victory for SRAM”.

    Absolutely this. I’ve never been a fan of Sram shifting, it feels pretty cheap compared to Shimano imo, even the few XX1 groups I’ve tried, while the range is great, it felt no better than my XT setup, if not slightly more vague. Comes down to preference I guess, I’d happily give up a bit of range for a shift feel I’m happy with, plus as I’m currently running a 34-11/36 setup any extra range is good in my book!

    mrblobby
    Member

    This will be hugely popular I’m sure, I’m not convinced you’ll get people with XX1 selling up and moving over, but I’m not seeing it as “a lanslide victory for SRAM”.

    Having a Di2 option would help tip the scales a little more too 🙂

    According to what I’ve read on this here website, XX1 has sold EIGHT times as much as expected.

    That’s a massive market share loss for XTR, whatever way you cut it. Dunno how may XX1 users there are on this site, but I’d be surprised if less than half of them were on Shimano before going XX1. (Go on, tell us, you lot)

    Don’t see this winning back market share for them. Apart from not needing a new freehub, there’s nothing here. It’s not even desirable to look at.

    mashiehood
    Member

    It’s not that universal actually, single ring is prolific certainly, but plenty are just using 11-36 cassettes.

    This will be hugely popular I’m sure, I’m not convinced you’ll get people with XX1 selling up and moving over, but I’m not seeing it as “a lanslide victory for SRAM”.

    im using an XX 11-36 cassette with an XX1 front ring and XTR rear mech. Think i will stick with what I have until i get old / unfit etc, at which point I will give up cycling and play cricket instead. 😀

    Premier Icon fathomer
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    That chainset, gopping!

    And it’s been said but Shimano definately seem to have missed the point, there not actually offering much over what can be achieved with a pretty good bodge for an awful lot less money.

    And to reiterate, that chainset, gopping.

    Hob Nob
    Member

    I’m one who has an XX1/X01 setup, and have run it for a fair while now. Its probably wasted on me as I rarely use the 10T and haven’t used the 42T anywhere near as much as I thought.

    I also am one who dislikes the cheap feel to the SRAM shifting. The rear mech is typical SRAM, play everywhere, although to be fair, it does still shift.

    11-40 would probably give me a more usable range that’s beneficial to me. But then I may as well stick to a 10spd setup and get the bits nice & cheap 🙂

    The 1x market isn’t that big, although i’m a convert there are many, many multiples of people who still run a front mech.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    According to what I’ve read on this here website, XX1 has sold EIGHT times as much as expected.

    That’s a massive market share loss for XTR, whatever way you cut it

    No it isn’t, 1) I’d not believe everything on here and 2) even assume it’s totally true it’s meaningless without the context.

    If they planned to sell 10 groupsets and actually sold eighty, that’s 8 times as many as expected, means **** all! You don’t know how many of them were XTR customers, how many would have bought an identical groupset if it said XTR on it etc etc.

    The fixation with ‘1x’ is apparently quite a UK based phenomenon, the OEM market is colossal and a lot of people plum don’t like SRAM. This will be a huge success for Shimano. Odd there’s not even a mention of Di2 though it must be said.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
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    I suspect they’ll ‘prove’ the technology with manual shift before adapting to electric – same as they did with road.

    DanW
    Member

    All the negativity will pass when Di2 XTR and the awesome looking carbon XTR wheels get officially released. Not sure either are for me but I reckon it’ll generate more interest and excitement in XTR that is missing from this release.

    Also, Pinkbike noted the products they were allowed access to were last generation prototypes and 3D printed mock ups rather than the production versions so things may change aesthetically.

    The 1x curved ring profile is something I’ve been waiting for someone to try for a while (like the FSA Megatooth which hasn’t made it to shops so far) and the 11 speed on a normal freehub is a massive plus. Can’t ignore the engineering and quality approach of Shimano and hopefully it’ll keep the more robust and solid feel compared to SRAM.

    Don’t feel 11-40 is a massive difference to most people either compared to 10-42 although it’ll be perceived as such.

    …. so… some positives amongst the feeling of disappointment

    mrmo
    Member

    The fixation with ‘1x’ is apparently quite a UK based phenomenon, the OEM market is colossal and a lot of people plum don’t like SRAM. This will be a huge success for Shimano. Odd there’s not even a mention of Di2 though it must be said.

    I wouldn’t touch sram with a barge pole, in fact last bike I bought, I could have bought the “better” model but didn’t because it used Sram! It is over priced, not very durable and horrifically expensive if you start breaking it.

    as for Di2, I suspect what you are seeing is Shimano leaking information. There are pictures of XTR Di2 on the net, I wouldn’t be surprised if Sea Otter reveals a bit more?

    As for 1x, i am not overly fond of gaps between gears.

    timb34
    Member

    Actually I think that looks better than the catalogue shots.

    Front mech looks very neat, not sure how the front cable entry would work with typical hardtail cable routing, with a stop on the seat-tube?

    Rear mech appears to have the clutch switch the other way round, so it’s tucked out of the way when on.

    Older angular xtr chainsets looked much better, but it looks like the curviest parts of the new one are plastic covers over the chainring bolts.

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