1:1 actuation vs. 2:1 actuation (ie SRAM vs. Shimano)

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  • 1:1 actuation vs. 2:1 actuation (ie SRAM vs. Shimano)
  • swoosh
    Member

    Does the 1:1 actuation err…. action make any difference when faced with a cable full of crap just like a Shimano gear system can be?

    I have SRAM on my commuter and i think it is a lot easier to change gear, much less effort needed and thats still on the same cables as over a year ago. If i swap my MTB to SRAM (X9 most likely) then will i notice a difference after a couple of muddy gritty rides? or will it just be the same and its all just marketing hype?

    I know SRAM tension springs are tighter so the rear mech doesnt bounce around half as much as a Shimano one does (Like in this video) but is the 1:1 actuation any better?

    yes. stacks better. do it.

    Kuco
    Member

    If you want a good tension spring then get a Saint rear mech. imo Sram=Cheese.

    Didn’t we have this conversation a couple of days ago?

    MOJO K
    Member

    My experience has been that the shimano is way more fussy than the sram.

    Premier Icon Del
    Subscriber

    go for an x7 mech IMHO. the jockey wheels are bushed and don’t seize up like the x9 ones, and you won’t cry if you break it. x9 shifters if you’re feeling flush.

    Premier Icon auricgoldfinger
    Subscriber

    Having run 3 sets of X0 on my bikes for longer than I exactly remember now, the worst thing about the system is the jockey wheels. Once dialled in, I’ve always found shifting stays sweet and the whole thing quite un-fussy. I think the actuation ratio is part of it, but also cable routing – where I’ve run it with full length outer, I’ve never had a problem at all. I haven’t used the current generation of Shimano stuff, so have no idea, but the performance of my SRAM stuff doesn’t give me a reason to look elsewhere.

    Inzane
    Member

    Full length outers make a huge difference to both brands, but I have found Sram to be less fussy than Shimano.

    With one system you push a lever it moves a wire which changes the gears.

    The other system is completely different you push a lever it moves a wire which changes the gears but it has a different name on it

    I have Shimano on one bike and SRAM on another and they both work just fine

    buy the cheaper one its that simple

    TimothyD
    Member

    I think a lot of the mags find Sram to be less fussy. I got annoyed and went back to thumbies when i used Shimano index,but that wasn’t your question.

    I guess there’s sound theory behiend why Sram is less fussy as well as mag people liking them.

    Though they can sometimes be slippy when wet (especially if you’re wearing gloves as well?) i think Sram gripshifts are well liked by MBUKbecause you can trim the front mech to get rid of any chain rub.

    can’t say i’ve noticed a huge difference, I’d probably go for SRAM on looks if they made a rapid rise mech, but they dont and my old LX mech is still refusing to die.

    my setup:
    Sram rocket shifters, shimano mech’s

    I’ve found my now three year old SX5 mech a lot less fussy than the short cage XT mech it replaced.

    Premier Icon sillyoldman
    Subscriber

    Shimano stuff is faaaaaar more durable than Sram.

    Sram’s 1:1 set-up is great.
    It’s cable routing is great.
    Ergonomics of shifters is great.
    Build quality is woeful.

    mudplugga
    Member

    Rapid rise mechanically is far less stressfull on the cassette.
    For me that’s the end of the argument. Less maint etc.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    sillyoldman has it, SRAM stuff works OK, but you’ll buy three of everything in the time it takes for Shimano to wear out. Replace the cables every year for a sweet running system

    swoosh
    Member

    i’ve been changing the cables more frequently than every year on the shimano’s and they have still been a pain when it comes to grit in the outers etc.

    in general the concensous seems to be that SRAM action is better if a little flimsy, well i dont wrack many of my bike parts so reckon i might have an answer there for when my shifters die, which they seem to be doing with consistency.

    oh and Kuco, sorry for not being addicted to this place and reading every single post like some people.

    Premier Icon auricgoldfinger
    Subscriber

    As usual, horses for courses then. I smashed the rear mech off my Pace 303 a few years back. Sheared off the mech hanger, the X0 mech is still going strong on a different bike – the same one has been on 3 different bikes, so seems plenty durable enough to me. Same couldn’t be said about that frame.

    Premier Icon nedrapier
    Subscriber

    Thumbies.

    My answer to the ‘oldest component’ thread too. 10 years, no problems. Stick it on friction and you never need to adjust it either.

    Premier Icon nedrapier
    Subscriber

    not an answer to the question, though. Just the kind of self-righteous, self-congratulatory not-even-a-tangent post that makes STW what it is.

    I think the thumbies are 1:1 if that makes any difference?

    Got SRAM on Hardtail, and they’re fantastically precise – change up and down exactly as you command.

    Got Shimano on full suss – new rear mech(XT), new cassette, new chain, new chainrings, new cable inner & outer – changing is terrible. 2 clicks to make it move one gear – 1 click back to keep it there. I don’t really know why they’re that bad, but they are.

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    Whatever system you use, regular cable maintenance work pays dividends. And to that end I’d recommend middleburn cable oilers every time so you can flush the dirt back out of the housings after every ride, replace it with a new load of teflon impregnated GT85 or Weldtite, and say goodbye to misclick misery.

    r6ymy
    Member

    I’m with auricgoldfinger, other than the jockey wheels being dodgy I think X0 is fantastic quality, I have two X0 rear mechs, the older one has developed a tiny bit of play in the main pivot – when I was checking I noticed the manufactured date on the cage – Jan 2003, my ‘newer’ one is from 2004.

    Premier Icon ononeorange
    Subscriber

    Got SRAM on 2 bikes and Shimano on one. SRAM changes excellently and is fit and forget through any cr*p. Oldest mech is probably 4 years old (?), essentially I’ve never had to change one yet. The Shimano is forever jumping around and is generally very attention-seeking. I know what I’d buy again!

    CountZero
    Member

    My oldest mech is an X9, which is now six years old and has been on two bikes with the only cable change being when the bits were swapped over. I had to change a jockey wheel when a tooth snapped off a couple of years ago, and around that time the jockeys got absolutely packed with mud on a horrendously muddy ride. Other than that it’s been faultless, with full cable outers. Get some BBB jockeys to replace the stock ones when they peg out and you’ll be fine. Whenever I’ve ridden bikes with Shimano I’ve always had issues with the shifting, and I hate the shifters.

    bigyinn
    Member

    mudplugga – Member
    Rapid rise mechanically is far less stressfull on the cassette.

    Sorry, but i dont know of anyone having over stressed cassettes due to having a normal rise mech.
    All this moaning about shimano being fussy, makes me think people are blaming shimano for their own poor maintenance. Either that or im just lucky with my setup!

    All this moaning about shimano being fussy, makes me think people are blaming shimano for their own poor maintenance.

    Or maybe they’re saying that you don’t need to clean your drivetrain with a toothbrush after every ride in order for Sram to work efficiently.

    clubber
    Member

    I’m a confirmed Shimano user (off road at least – for roadieing I’m a Campag man) and I can’t say that I’ve ever really had any major shifting issues (despite riding in some awful conditions) but I do run full length outers.

    That said, SRAM’s 1:1 is a mechanically superior system – it’s quite simple really. With a 1:1 system, you pull the cable more, meaning that cable stretch has less effect and also any drag in the cable makes less difference. It’ll never happen (IMO) but if Shimano went to 1:1, that would be inherently better.

    traildog
    Member

    I did use SRAM for a few years, but gone back to exclusively Shiamno. Maybe SRAM was less fussy about setup, but installing a rear mech is not exactly the hardest job in the world so I never worried about this. I guess I adjusted the cables less with the SRAM system, but not sure if this was to the 1:1 system or more to do with the fact that I was always having to replace the mech. The jockey wheels would seize up, despite all the improvements they apparently made to this. And then the mech would shake itself apart and develop play in less than 3 months.
    I put the whole 1:1 thing down to hype. Don’t care what the actuation ratio is, just want a system that works and lasts well and Shimano provides this for me.

    I’ve been using SRAM X9 stuff on my bike for the last 6 months, before that it was XT. Riding most days for the last 4 months on pretty rocky terrain and it was wet and gritty here for most of January and early Feb. I’ve found that the SRAM stuff stays tuned better which I put down to the 1:1 actuation. The shifting is always easy and quick. I’ve had a few issues with the shifters not clicking back after the change which I’ve solved by opening them up and cleaning / greasing them. I’ve put the rear mech right into the spokes once and it sprung back into shape nicely which I was impressed about, I honestly thought it’d be knackered. The jockey wheels though… rubbish! They’re completely knackered and the chain is rubbing on the side of the mech cage because they move about so much on the ‘bearings’. I’ve got a new set arriving today I hope.

    So all in all, I think they’re better than the XT stuff I was using before. I run them fairly far in on my bars which works perfectly for me. The jockey wheels are the real weak point I think.

    steve_b77
    Member

    I’ve got SRAM on my FS (X7 stuff) and I’ve only adjusted the cables once in 18 months, changed a set of jockey wheels last week and thats it, clean precise if slightly agricultural feeling. It does give really good positive shifts when hooning around.

    I’ve also got a full ’08 LX Set up on my HT, it’s a smoother shifting system, but a little harder to tell when it’s shifted as there isn’t that “der-clunk” feeling/noise when you change. But it’s ideally suited to how my HT is ridden.

    Haven’t had any problems with the cables on either, the SRAM has full length and the Shimano has the other type.

    I do like the 2 way movement of the Shimano shifters, if SRAM made them it’d be fantastic

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Or maybe they’re saying that you don’t need to clean your drivetrain with a toothbrush after every ride in order for Sram to work efficiently.

    I don’t do this with my Shimano, it works fine.

    So with this 1:1 thing, do you have to move the shift lever twice as far? If not, then it’s fairly academic isn’t it since movement at lever translates to movement at mech in the same proportions regardless of the levers in between. More cable movement might make it work with crappier cables but keeping them tidy is so minor a chore that it’s not worth taking it into consideration when shopping for groupsets imo.

    Premier Icon Wookster
    Subscriber

    Alway been a big fan of X( TBH. HAve it on my cove HT and its still going strong have not even tweeked the cable in the last 6 months I think! HOwever got x9 on my five and its been nothing but trouble cant get it to stay sweet for anthing omore than a few weeks, show it mud and it goes to pot. Have been told by lbs that SRAM have changed the plastic and its not as good on the mech body?? Either way I am putting on shim stuff and sealed cables this weekend!!

    ChunkyMTB
    Member

    I like SRAM and don’t give a f*** what people here think. 😀

    I don’t like SS’s, niche steel rigid’s, or Pitch Pro’s. Suck my fat one.

    brownpants
    Member

    XO Gripshift – cheap -ish and work best – NO CONTEST!

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Agree with those who say SRAM works better, have switched to it on all my bikes.

    Also agree about the dodgy jockey wheels though, had two out of three bottom jockey wheels seize in X9 mechs.

    Otherwise seem durable enough though, and one survived an excursion into my rear wheel.

    Interested to hear other people’s SRAM durability issues?

    swoosh
    Member

    brownpants, good thought, GRIPSHIFT or TRIGGER shifters? opinions please….

    TimothyD
    Member

    MBUK liked gripshifters in the issue i bought for thier shifter review,but they said they can be a little bit slippy when wet and splattered with mud. But i think they said they’re also pretty light and easy to hand,and you can trim the front mech to avoid chain rub.

    brownpants
    Member

    Gripshift are superb for uncluttering the bar and they allow smooth changes on fast downhills without having to hang on with 3 fingers(one on lever one on shifter 😉 ).
    The front shifter having the 9 clicks allows for ‘perfect’ chain line with no horrible cage rub .
    I did have to stop and ask a marshall to change my front Gripshift at the Hit The North on about my 3rd lap but I was removing handfuls of mud all the time from the rear wheel and mech so my gloves were very slippy – that is not the norm !! And you can very occasionally get changes in gear on climbs if you are ham fisted .

    Anyhow I think I’m buying up the worlds stock because all 4 bikes have X0 gripshift and ANOTHER new pair arrived yesterday – just in case 😉

Viewing 38 posts - 1 through 38 (of 38 total)

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