It’s that simple, it’s a bigger rear cassette. That’s the reason people run them.

If you could get a 50T setup on a 10sp, we’d all run that.

Maybe we as riders have got lazy instead of grinding out a 36T cassette we now spin a 50T.

I’ve used 9 thru 12 and TBH I don’t believe that the 11/12 speeds systems wear any quicker or are more fragile. Use 1x and 11 or 12 on my gravel, XC and enduro bikes.

Gear-wise, depends where you ride and how fit you are.

Hey there,

Good thread I have a multitude of bikes from 3×9 to 1×12. To be honest I like them all, sometimes I like the range of the 3×9 but like the simplicity of the 1x setups. For sure the 3x setups or even the 2×10 are cheaper to maintain. All I can say is thank god I can buy SunRace cassettes because they are a damn site cheaper than the Shimano or SRAM ones 😉

JeZ

OP you’re missing the many thousands of people running a wide range of gears, with good shifting, who’ve got nothing to moan about on tinternet.

Every 11 speed set up I’ve had has worked really well and been very durable. Ended up with shimano 12 speed on a new bike and it’s been fine. I was skeptical after reading such threads but I’ve had no issues with set up or durability. My chains seem to last longer on the 12 speed set up.

But had I never tried 12 speed I’d be perfectly happy with Shimano 11-46.

Every 11 speed set up I’ve had has worked really well and been very durable. Ended up with shimano 12 speed on a new bike and it’s been fine. I was skeptical after reading such threads but I’ve had no issues with set up or durability. My chains seem to last longer on the 12 speed set up.

I have currently done over 5000 miles on a Sram AXS 1×12 speed chain and its still not worn to 0.5. It is on the road bike but it’s not even kept particularly clean. Quite amazing really.

I’ve never had any issues with either Shimano 11 speed (M8000) nor the 52t 12 speed GX Eagle setup I have on my new bike. Wear rates have been the same as any 9 or 10 speed setup I have used. The only gearing that seems to last forever is the older 7 / 8 speed stuff. I still run Shimano 8 speed on my wife’s bike.

Essential tool for your toolbox = mech hanger alignment gauge

Watch all the free Park Tool gear setup guides as well as their video on how to use the aforementioned mech hanger alignment gauge. SRAM Eagle seems to be really sensitive to B-Tension. The plastic gauge they make helps get it dialled in. Once set up its been perfect. Super crisp shifting.

I am religious with my cleaning and lubeing regime though.

This too. Reduced tolerances on 11 / 12 speed mean that a gunked-up drivetrain is going to misbehave sooner.

I’ve had middle ground 11 speed (SLX), posh 11 speed (XTR) and now posh 12 speed (XTR), my eldest has cheap 10 speed (Deore) and is about to move to middle ground 12 speed (mainly SLX with a smattering of XT) and I’ve absolutely no qualms about any of it whatsoever.

The 12 doesn’t wear any quicker, is no harder to set up, gives you all the range without clunky big steps at the low end, and on XTR at least in a combined 9000+km I’ve never had need to even adjust the cable tension on the rear mech.

The M9100 XTR chains are absolutely phenomenal – granted I kind of look after mine, as in I clean the cassette and chain ring and keep the chain sweet with SquirtLube- but it took over 1800km to get anywhere near 0.5% worn before I changed it.

I have my prejudices against 12 speed, but they are more about more vulnerable rear mechs and potentially finnicky indexing than cog durability.

I think a lot of that is down to you only see the bad posts on the internets, once they’re set up right (not even remotely hard for anyone with a modicum of technical ability) and you actually have the correct gearing in place for where you ride, so you’re not spending loads of time in the 3 biggest (alloy on XT & XTR) cogs it lasts just as well as 11 speed.

coconut
What am I missing ?

People buying/fitting new gearing are the ones who have problems, and those people are buying 1×12, hence you hearing more about it

Seems the Cassettes on 12 speed are wearing quickly and issues with the rear mech alignment set up/shifting.

I’d say that the mix of GX, XO1 that I’ve currently got is the most hardest wearing group-set I’ve ever owned, I’ve changed inner cable and adjusted the b tension a coupler of times and that’s it over 3 plus years and 5000kms

 I don’t really get the selling point of 11/12 speed, except the obvious different gearing ratios. What am I missing ?

If you ride in places that used to have you drop into the granny, then you more or less got the same range with 12sp, whereas your 10 speed doesn’t quite have the same range. that’s it. If you don’t think you need that, there’s no point in buying it, but that’s also true of every gearing system that’s ever existed

Quite timely as I’ve just scored a 9 speed, 26″ BFe to do up. It currently has 3×9 and I’m going to replace that with an old 1×11 drivetrain I took off my “good” bike recently. Why? Mostly aesthetics really.

it did seem to sit noticeably lower

I did think this could be an issue, particularly if you are on smaller wheels and fit 12sp. Surely the cage is longer?

I might be wrong, but I think the SRAM stuff sits further out than the Shimano stuff, that a no doubt there’s some inexpensive plastic / muck metal bit in the GX that will be weaker than the carbon / stainless / Ti bits in the top end stuff

From hazy memory, I think it was more something to do with the jockey wheels jamming and causing the mech to explode?

I haven’t noticed any problems. I’ve had 2 or 3 NX setups now, and have found them the easiest setup of any that I’ve used, smooth in use and pretty resilient. No snapped chains either, which obviously means I’m going to snap my chain next time out, doesn’t it?

I think Box do a 9sp (the snappily named Box One) cassette that has 11-50 range, and that’s supposed to be very good.

Good point made above re gaps between cogs: wider range on <11sp wouldn’t be ideal, even on 11-sp SLX I find the bigger gaps at the top of the cassette less than ideal and is another reason I’m trying 10-42 SRAM on one bike:

11-sp SLX M7000 11-46: 46-37-32-28-24-21-19-17-15-13-11
11-sp SRAM XG1150 10-42: 42-36-32-28-24-21-18-16-14-12-10

Smaller gaps at the top of the SRAM cassette. I’m dropping from a 30t to 28t chainring at the same time to maintain the same low end, yet its still giving me a bigger top end 30/11 vs 28/10.

I imagine 12-sp will be even better re gaps but it’s another level of expense for me.

I have had setup issues with 12 speed so I do think it’s a little more finnicky than 11, but most people don’t and once you’ve got it running right it’s running right. I suspect it’s less tolerant than older systems to either slightly out of alignment hangers or slightly out of spec B-tension, but both of those can be got right and should’ve been before anyway.

I can well imagine the increase in both width of cassette and cassette gear spread will drive some extra wear and/or sensitivity. If it does then its a choice you make for the extra gear range.

I’ve also complained about the durability of a 12 speed Deore mech, but then the durability of 9 speed SRAM I found pretty bad too. 12 speed xt I found better, but it’s a sample size of just 2. Also possible my riding has become a bit harder on kit nowadays.

In terms of basic reliability my shimano 11 speed stuff might be the best I’ve ever had.

There is some data somewhere that says some 12 speed chains last longer than the older ones, I think, although I’d be sceptical.

If you need that low of a gear, you’re better off (and quicker) walking.

I like going out for a bike ride, not a hill walk.

It was much better when we had smaller range cassettes and a choice of front rings because nobody, ever, complained that they couldn’t set up their front mech.

I also think the easier bigger gears are also making us weaker. You used to be forced to muscle up climbs, now you stick it in an easy gear and spin up at your leisure.

There speaks someone who never had 22:36t ratio on a 26″ wheel bike. 22:36 is almost precisely the same ratio as 32:52.

N.B. it’s worth noting that if you are using 29er wheels and 165mm cranks, the reduced leverage given by that combination makes it feel approx 18% ‘harder’ than the same gear ratio on an older bike with 26″ wheels and 175mm cranks, too. Or, to put it another way, you’d need to change your 32t front sprocket to a (hypothetical) 27t one to give you the same feel at the pedals.