- This topic has 11 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by shedbrewed.
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10 speed derailleur with 11 speed everything else
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mildredFull MemberPosted 4 years ago
I’m currently building my son a bike from the spares bin.
I thought I had a full 11 speed set up but on examination the rear mech is a Shimano rd-m675 not m7000 as I originally thought.
My question is, has anyone tried a 10 speed derailleur with 11 speed everything else?
As far as I understand it the rear mech simply swings through an arc & distance, whereas the shifter dictates just how much it moves for each gear shift. Therefore the key element to each gear setup would be the rear cassette spacing & the amount of cable the shifter pulls for each gear shift.
I don’t mind losing a gear at either end if it means it will work for the other gears.
Has anyone done this?
YakFull MemberPosted 4 years agoOther way round is ok and can be used to avoid using rad cages/goat links or other ways of working with larger cassettes. Ignoring shift ratios for a bit, the danger is that a 10speed mech won’t clear the larger sprockets well without lots of b-screw tension and then poor chainwrap in the smaller sprockets.
Edit – shift ratio for a 10speed mech is 1.2 and for 11speed is 1.1. You’ll be out at either end of the cassette.
ellipticFree MemberPosted 4 years agoCable pull and spacing are very close, and with luck you’ll have enough spare range in the stop screws, but if this is a 1x setup be aware shimano 10 speed mechs are not great at handling the larger sprockets on wide range cassettes without some bodging (11-36 is their nominal max range).
Its more common to retrofit an 11-speed mech to a 10-speed transmission for that reason when going to an 11-42 cassette or similar.
thisisnotaspoonFree MemberPosted 4 years agoNope, the pull ratio’s are different, it won’t index.
1.2 to 1.1 means you’ll be almost half a gear out at either end. that’s about 3.5 full turns of the barrel adjuster either way (assuming 6.5mm spacing and 1mm thread pitch which I think is correct)
richmtbFull MemberPosted 4 years ago11 speed Shimano cassettes basically adds the extra sprocket onto the back of the cassette making the entire cassette a bit wider, rather than 12 speed which reduces the spacing and the sprocket width to cram an extra sprocket in the same space.
Spacing is 3.9mm versus 3.95mm so close but not the same – if the spacing was the same you could use a 10 speed chain on an 11 speed cassette and you can’t. Pull ratio is slightly different too. Its also pretty close but not the same, you might struggle to get smooth shifting across the whole cassette.
There a few clips on youtube with a 10 speed derailleur working fine on an 11 speed cassette. Its probably worth a try to see if you can get it working, but be prepared for it to be “sub-optimal”
balfaFree MemberPosted 4 years agoI did this a few years back when I initially swapped to 11speed. Worked fine with a 11-42t cassette. Lots of people said the same about different pull ratios back then. Doubt any of them had actually tried it. 9 and 10speed were not compatible and 10 and 11 speed are.
mildredFull MemberPosted 4 years agoThanks everyone; a mixed response then.
My train of thought is that it’s the shifter that dictates the amount of cable pulled, and therefore the amount it pulls/moves the derailleur. If the derailleur is simply moving in a smooth linear fashion (i.e. not affected by a cam etc.) then it’ll go wherever the shifter puts it along its range of possible movement.
I think I’ll give it a go & report back.
thisisnotaspoonFree MemberPosted 4 years agoMy train of thought is that it’s the shifter that dictates the amount of cable pulled, and therefore the amount it pulls/moves the derailleur. If the derailleur is simply moving in a smooth linear fashion (i.e. not affected by a cam etc.) then it’ll go wherever the shifter puts it along its range of possible movement.
The derailleur multiplies the cable pull by the pull ratio.
So a Shimano 10 shifter pulls ~3.9/1.2=3.25mm per shift, a 11s one pulls 3.9/1.1=3.54mm. Doesnt sound like much but over 11 gears with that combination a 3.54*11=39mm cable pull, with a 10s mech that’s 46.8mm travel, with an 11s mech it’s 42.9, 3.9mm out. I.e. you’ll be in 11th gear when you should be in 10th and have an extra click. And inbetween it’s just sitting inbetween sprockets.
10s mech and 10s shifter on 11s cassette works, just cant shift into one of the gears.
reluctantjumperFull MemberPosted 4 years agoIt’ll work at the extremes of the cassette but you’ll have no indexing across it ie it won’t work well. The only odd combination of 10/11 that does work is a Deore M6000 mech which is labelled as 10 speed but is actually an 11 speed mech (to clear the 11-42t cassette) but with the shifter indexed differently. Swap that out to an 11 speed shifter and it works fine. Every other 10 speed mech and shifter won’t work.
unovoloFree MemberPosted 4 years agoI did a bit of googling on this a while back as are looking to do the same,
One post I found suggested that using a 2.1mm spacer on the rear derailleur cable clamp would alter the cable pull to the correct ratio but haven’t found anyone who has tried it to confirm.
I was going to try it but just not got round to it, was considering getting a 12spd derailleur instead to sort of future proof as I do already have 11spd Cassette and shifter waiting to be fitted.
shedbrewedFree MemberPosted 4 years agoHaving tried out of curiousity and frugality both a DA7900 with link and Deore XT M792 rear derailleurs with rs505 shifters and hg800 11-34 cassette I can confirm there was always one cog out of index.
I can also confirm that 10 speed chains work fine on SRAM Rival 22.
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