Left field comment - should we have called for a public inquiry immediately after the referendum but before submitting article 50?
It’s a bit of a rhetorical question, mind.
Into why thickos were allowed to have a say?
should we have called for a public inquiry immediately after the referendum but before submitting article 50?
Yes but everyone knew the main outcome would be it's a terrible idea and it will cost billions to achieve nothing good. So in order to make brexit happen they disconnected the brakes, restrained the passenger's, fitted sound proofing and aimed us at the cliff.
As I’ve said, rhetorical question.
You do have a thing about thickos THM. Give it up, it’s worn thin.
Yes there was a correlation between education and remain, but please feel free to stop labouring it.
We all know already. And it’s just you that mentions it these days.
I don’t. I think they have as much a say as everyone else. They could even post here if they wanted to.
If they only have a few brain cells they would be able to misunderstand everything.
It’s not about ‘thickos’
It’s about lies
However this rolling national catastrophe plays out, to me the definitive image of the whole debacle will be the looks on the ashen faces of this pair of self-serving charlatans when they realised what they’d done
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And it’s been all downhill since then
I’d happily string the pair of them up!
it’s just you that mentions it these days
It's his obsession the poor dear. Hell it beats having put up an argument though. Along with the Will of the people, and gNats. Oh and don't forget the 'strategic' 😯 whilst ignoring any difficult question. His 'pal' will be along in a minute just wait and see....
I like the defensive skills of the loyal tories.. It's (nearly) like Australia batting last night, just play your shot and ignore where the ball went, ignore the ref, ignore the commentators, ignore the crowd and keep going.
To take a step back for a moment, TM tacitly acknowledged the divisions in society, immediately before empowering the hard Tory right to exacerbate them. Probably because Brexit is cheaper than fixing society.
But we live in a representative democracy, we vote for people to represent us with the best information and advice. None of us knew the extent of what we’re getting into.
This is why we should’ve had a public inquiry, chaired by experts with no political influence forced upon them.
The thing with the thickos these days is that they take pride in their thickness and ignorance and wear it as a badge of honour - I was embarrassed to be a thicko and did something to try and change it.
Nice obsession you are developing there MH
Regarding thickos , my mum voted leave as her friend had a Nigerian nurse be nasty to her in hospital.
Another friend who lives in Cornwall voted leave as all the fish caught in Cornish waters have to go off to a central eu fish market and then sold back to us.
A relative voted Leave because he had “had enough of bloody commissioners from bloody Bombay telling us all what to do”.
It’s dead easy to laugh at the stupidity, but equally we should’ve committed to addressing those societal divisions that precipitated this, long ago.
teamhurtmore - Member
Nice obsession you are developing there MH
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How about offer Scotland “regulatory alignment” in exchange for 35 SNP votes? And DUP can 'do one'.
How about england ( minus london?) just effs off from the UK and the EU and leaves the rest of us in peace and prosperity!
Ahhh the elephant in the room "thicko" conundrum.
Trouble is folks it's more accurate than not.
teamhurtmore - Member
Into why thickos were allowed to have a say?
I was compelled to post....
The thing I don't accept about your 'thickos' schtick is this:
...you are fully committed to Brexit happening because you seem to see no way back from it now. You are determined to carry on with it regardless. Making the best of it is how I think you'd describe it. Fair enough, I can give you that: but only if we factor in some completely imaginary irreversibility of Brexit.
You won't or can't allow for the idea that, if presented with a balanced, logical view of the sheer overwhelming negativity of Brexit, they'd rethink it. It seems that you think that people are undeserving or unable to cope with another chance. That there's no way back as people aren't rational enough to deal with it. That they can't do as you have: divorce your sentiment from your rationality and concentrate on practicalities. And that view to me implies a certain contempt for people.
So, with respect to you- isn't it therefore true that you that are the one implicitly calling people "thick?"
I think that presented with the facts, and the facts alone, many would happily rethink. To think otherwise is to show...a lack of parity.
How about england ( minus london?) just effs off from the UK and the EU and leaves the rest of us in peace and prosperity!
Can Bristol stay too please.
I’d happily string the pair of them up!
I feel sure that bare-faced and demonstrable lying during a political campaign should be illegal. Obtaining a political result under false pretences? Basic fraud?
well said goingslightlymad
They could even post here if they wanted to.
I'm a thicko apparently as I voted for Brexit. The bottom line is that the Tories screwed up, specifically Cameron. Even a thicko like me could see they hadn't thought it through. The devil is in the detail of which there was none. What did the intelligentsia expect?
You won't or can't allow for the idea that, if presented with a balanced, logical view of the sheer overwhelming negativity of Brexit,
Interesting idea. Unfortunately to date we have nothing of the sort to test it with.
Instead we have not only had complete contempt for those who chose to make a different decision but also an endless supply a total tosh to justify ignoring a democratic result. Even the Brexshiteers would blush at a lot of the remoaners BS
So you can dress your contempt for the winners in emotive language but is still comes through load and clear
The devil is in the detail of which there was none. What did the intelligentsia expect?
The collective works that were labelled "project fear" that seem quite accurate.
Large financial settlement
Trade on EU terms
Damage to the economy
Civil War in the tory party
All the easy tasks just being slightly harder than we were told
we have not only had complete contempt for those who chose to make a different decision
Indeed, there's a certain irony seeing Eire so involved in the shenanigans, it's as if there was no history with the Irish public's opinions on the EU...
The collective works that were labelled "project fear" that seem quite accurate.
Not quite reached
"As a historian I fear Brexit could be the beginning of the destruction of not only the EU but also Western political civilisation in its entirety,"
yet though have we?
I'm a thicko apparently as I voted for Brexit.
So what was your logic for voting for it?
Also are you still in favour?
Biggest problem going forward is, somewhat ironically, the Brexiteers whoppers. They’ve already showed how little understanding or concern they have for cultural sensitivities
As he famously said...
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‘Ever has the feeling you’ve been cheated?!’
Plenty of people, including less rabid Tory MPs are concerned that when ‘the thickos’ realise the extent of the lies and how much they’ve been shafted, there’s only going to be one inevitable result
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So you can dress your contempt for the winners in emotive language but is still comes through load and clear
There is one good example who keeps talking about "grown ups". As a sign of contempt it really is quite something.
Mike - I took no notice of 'project fear' nor the emblazoned NHS bus but I do recollect hazily the UK joining the EEC as it was then called. It seemed a brilliant idea and did work well but it eventually became something it was not supposed to be. This is why so many voted for Brexit.
Democratic result (over 1000 uses but ignores that joining was a democratic thing which must be respected)
No evidence of anything bad at all (new one I think but still just selective reading)
Contempt for those battling away in union jack y fronts on the front line (yeah hard to not have contempt for a bunch of people who have wasted the UK's limited time and pissed off the bigger party by pretending all the issues were not issues before capitulating on them)
We are getting a clearer "vision" of what comes next, would be a good point to have an opinion as to how it's going unless your opinion was carved into a stone tablet - we all know how that one ends.
I'd welcome those leave voters to pop in and tell us if they think they are getting what they thought they voted for, tell us why leaving is a good idea but also stay to debate it - we mostly get pure fantasy ideas in here from the leave side.
Mike - I took no notice of 'project fear' nor the emblazoned NHS bus but I do recollect hazily the UK joining the EEC as it was then called. It seemed a brilliant idea and did work well but it eventually became something it was not supposed to be. This is why so many voted for Brexit.
Problem being project fear was the label from those who disliked experts...
I'm glad you have your reasons - do you see it turning out well for the UK?
Proved the point on the partiality of moderation though haven’t I - bet a tenner you wouldn’t have intervened if anyone called me a liar despite the “No personal insults” rule
Not really. If you're fishing for whether anyone reported you or not, I'm not telling you. I didn't issue the warning, I stopped reading the bollocks spouted on here about 300 pages back. But you carry on making shit up if it makes you happy.
You do have a thing about thickos THM. Give it up, it’s worn thin.
Given that I've explained this a dozen times on this very thread, it's clear to me that THM is either not listening or determined to twist what people say to his own ends. I'm not overly sure which is worse.
we should’ve committed to addressing those societal divisions that precipitated this, long ago.
Bingo, we have a winner.
On the contrary it’s the opposite of the insults (mis)directed at our negotiating team by remoaners on here. Some very smart people accused of being one t short of a thicko by people who struggle with even a basic grasp of what is true and untrue
Mike - I took no notice of 'project fear' nor the emblazoned NHS bus but I do recollect hazily the UK joining the EEC as it was then called. It seemed a brilliant idea and did work well but it eventually became something it was not supposed to be. This is why so many voted for Brexit.
have you ever read the treaty of Rome?
So what was your logic for voting for it?
Also are you still in favour?
I had serious concerns about becoming a United States of Europe, the jostling for power that was going on, the gravy train, concern about some of the countries that joined the EU etc. Importantly though I felt it was costing this country far too much money.
As regards whether I'm still in favour, I look at the Tories and think God help us all.
I'm not overly sure which is worse.
Given that is exactly what you have just done, the answer should be obvious. You didn’t vote leave did you cougar 😉 ?
Plenty of people, including less rabid Tory MPs are concerned that when ‘the thickos’ realise the extent of the lies and how much they’ve been shafted, there’s only going to be one inevitable result
I really don't think there is. The remain "thickos" will either get what they want or simply don't care, and the leave "thickos" will take "undemocratic bureaucrats, corrupt EU, something something brown people" to the grave with them.
"Thickos," generally, on both sides of the argument, are entrenched in their views. That is in part what makes them thick. A wise man can see that he is wrong and revise his opinion. There is no way the extreme brexiters will revise their ideology, not whilst I've got a hole in my arse.
There may well be a small-scale revolt at some point, but it won't be when the populace go "oh shit, we've been lied to," it'll be when a minority of racist knuckle-draggers have their toys taken away from them.
@cg. In the light of what has come to pass, are you still of the opinion we should leave?
My mil is not a thicko but voted leave on the back of financial promises (yes, the bus) and reduced regulation / control from Brx. She feels she was lied to and would if she had her time again, vote differently. That to me is not a sign of being thick..... if anything to continue on the path when it becomes clearer day by day where that path is going, just because of a very close one time vote on poor / misleading arguments on both sides. I find that to be more 'intellectually challenging' than the original decision!
Still, watching the tories unravel kind of makes up for it a bit.
C_g, fair enough, and appreciate your post. I note your use of the word 'felt', but this is observation, not criticism.
Amen to your last. 🙁
concern about some of the countries that joined the EU etc.
Which ones? Why?
Importantly though I felt it was costing this country far too much money.
At least that's working out well for us, we've saved a fortune since A50 was triggered.
I'll come back to this tomorrow, my head hurts from stringing words together. 😳
Night all.
Has anyone added up the cost of all the EU institutions we will need to replace the EU ones? The money we will need to spend to duplicate the work that the EU are doing?
A wise man can see that he is wrong and revise his opinion.
How very true. Given that none of the doomsday predictions have occurred, the wise have time to reveal themselves
Bienvenue a tous....
