Boris and Patel both made statements to the effect that Brussels can “go whistle” and “sod off”, respectively, but that’s not necessarily the official line of our negotiators.
But there’s been a noticeable winding in of the hubris since June, plus as I’ve said before I suspect that those impact assessments will have had some sway in softening the tone.
oh,and Ninfantasist
As an aside, I’m viewing the constant badgering of THM with growing distaste.
We may not all agree, but I hope that we can at least try to keep it civil.
Keep it quiet but - ssshhhhh - we are in a [i]negotiation [/i]
(It’s what negotiators do, but mums the word 😉 )
So if the leavers aren’t getting what they thought they voted for and the ‘remoaners’ think it’s a shit idea anyway, remind me why we are doing this again?
A Spanish friend just asked me "So . . . .almost half the country, led by a party that lost the election and had to jump in bed with some loonies, is being forced down a road they don't want to go because a prime minister, who also didn't want to go down that road, was forced to call a referendum"?
Because it’s:
Too big to fail
The people have spoken
To save face
Party before country
Etc
Delete as applicable.
PJM1974 - MemberAs an aside, I’m viewing the constant badgering of THM with growing distaste.
We may not all agree, but I hope that we can at least try to keep it civil.
Given his long term personal attacks on people, his sneering contempt and his obvious falsehoods I don't think he gets it too badly. Well protected by the mods. Its different from Jamba who is not rude. THM is deliberately rude
Modern politics innit?
Those who make the most noise set the agenda
Got to love it! Cheers!
[img] 
[/img]
tjagain - Member
dannyh - actually suggested by the DUPPOSTED 19 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
Oh, well, in that case.......
[img]
REACTIONGIFS.COM PJM - save your kind thoughts. The posse in full flow is always a sight to behold and half the 1XV have yet to turn up.
Remember opposing views must be quashed at all costs 😉
we are in a negotiation
Yeah, but we hold no cards, the EU holds them all,
that’s why the U.K. had to cave in today and the Irish got the guarantees they wanted.
(Oh...)
The Irish dont want a hard border, fine... now perhaps someone could tell me again how holding up negotiations and increasing the chance of no deal (which we are willing to walk away with, because as we said from the start, it’s better than a bad deal) helps deliver that?
A Spanish friend just asked me...
Did you point out to him the distinct lack of police smashing peoples heads in with batons at our referenda? Or that Nigel Farage isn’t currently in exile for daring to lead the rebellion (as much as some of you may like him to be)
If all of us think that the moderators favour everyone else then they’re clearly doing their job.
I bowed out of this thread a couple of months back because I was uncomfortable with the mud slinging, things haven’t improved in general.
Meh. I’m going riding. By the time I get back hopefully someone will have found some unicorn dust down the back of the sofa and waved a magic wand.
Till then I maintain it’s a complete bit of a mess. A totally uncessary, self inflicted one too.
Ninfan there are many ironies in this whole debacle.
teamhurtmore - Member
Keep it quiet but - ssshhhhh - we are in a negotiation(It’s what negotiators do, but mums the word )
POSTED 6 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
[img]
Ohhhh, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, haaaaaaaaaaa!
As an aside, I’m viewing the constant badgering of THM with growing distaste.We may not all agree, but I hope that we can at least try to keep it civil.
Yep most heartedly agree
I do like to see THM’s take/view on this thread although he can be a tad crotchety 🙂
I hope you replied, "yes, except no-one forced that prime minister to call a refererendum, he just promised to and did so", Spekkie.
My French friends are every bit as preceptive as your Spanish friends, their main concern is that Britain should be prevented from gaining any kind of unfair advantage from Brexit.
AirB&B have developed a card system based in London and Gibralta so that rental incomes can be hinden from the French and Spanish tax collectors (and other countries too I presume). This kind of tax evasion facilitaed by London-based tax optimising firms is getting a lot of press in France, I assume Macron watches TF1 and reads a paper now and then. Britain is increasingly being presented as the dirty-dealing, tax-cheating black sheep of Europe. Just as 27 EU leaders have to sign off any deal with the UK. I'd like to thank our media sources for doing an excellent job.
Britain is increasingly being presented as the dirty-dealing, tax-cheating black sheep of Europ
Some deflection going on there then. UK is up there but Holland compete nicely and then Ireland and Luxembourg make both UK and Holland look like amateurs.
dissonance - the UK are the masters. all those crown dependencies and other assorted offshore havens .
ninfan - Member
we are in a negotiation
Yeah, but we hold no cards, the EU holds them all,that’s why the U.K. had to cave in today and the Irish got the guarantees they wanted.
The Irish dont want a hard border, fine... now perhaps someone could tell me again how [b]holding up negotiations and increasing the chance of no deal (which we are willing to walk away with, because as we said from the start, it’s better than a bad deal) helps deliver that[/b]?
The mistake you make here (and so does, bizarrely, a Tory PM) is because you don't understand their position.
The DUP [b]don't want a deal[/b]. This isn't a commerce thing for them. They only want money to help them win votes.
I've had some contract negotiation training and will be the first to admit that I'm no expert, but have sat around the table in big public sector deals that my firm has tried to broker and tried to find that viewpoint of my client, the "golden bridge".
So, the DUP can't possibly go back to their base and say: we took you a step closer to a United Ireland today, and escape unscathed at the next election. With the DUP- there's no golden bridge available in having any unity between the North and South that differs from that between the North and mainland.
I dont know if its too much of a stretch to say that they would be risking their lives to even suggest so. I'm regularly in Belfast these days and the murals tell the story.
Or that Nigel Farage isn’t currently in exile for daring to lead the rebellion
I wasnt aware he did an illegal referendum inside the UK to get, oh I dont know, Thanet maybe free from UK control.
Aside from anything else he would have had to get elected to power inside the UK first.
all those crown dependencies and other assorted offshore havens .
Not really. They certainly compete but part of the problem is the UK government doesnt have much say over several of them.
Admittedly parts of the city do make use of them but its not quite as bred into the political system as Luxembourg and Ireland.
Dont get me wrong there is plenty wrong with the UK approach but we dont stand out compared to some EU countries. Although, of course, certain of the rabid right would like to change that and hence their support for brexit.
The FT is reporting that Tory MPs are once again judging people by their own standards and suggesting that Theresa offers the DUP more money to play ball.
“Like a vending machine for political solutions”
I don’t think they really understand Oirish politics 😆
dissonance - I strongly disagree. The UK government could call theose tax havens to account if it wanted and could do plenty to stop the tax avoidance but it doesn't want to. those various crown dependencies are the bigget tax avoidence players
binners - Member
The FT is reporting that Tory MPs are once again judging people by their own standards and suggesting that Theresa offers the DUP more money to play ball.I don’t think they really understand Oirish politics
POSTED 2 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
They'd need a lot to buy new identities and plastic surgery all-round.
They just don’t get it, do they? They think it’s about money. I spent a lot of time over there at the height of the troubles. They’ve absolutely no idea, or no respect, for what they’re playing with! (Probably both)
I just hope their total cultural insensitivity and incompetence don’t take us back to that
It seems like they’re being wilfully ignorant. But that pretty much sums up Brexit. A celebration of stupidity
Regardless of your view on brexshit, the agreement is astounding. They thought it would be ok and didnt think to run it past the NI MP’s!!
Incompetence beyond words.
The FT is reporting that Tory MPs are once again judging people by their own standards and suggesting that Theresa offers the DUP more money to play ball.“Like a vending machine for political solutions”
I don’t think they really understand [s]Oirish[/s] politics
FTFY.
If that's true, it suggests that HM Government is royally shitting itself.
That'll be an 'alternative view' that has just been made up by ninfan and released onto the Internet to acquire the status of 'truth'.
You’re probably giving Zulu a bit too much credit there as I’m sure I heard the upstanding Sammy Wilson ([i]“Taigs don’t pay rates.”[/i]) on the radio earlier saying much the same thing in one of his “you can’t trust those Fenians in any negotiation” type tirades.
He’s an absolute top bloke that Sammy Wilson. When you’re getting your opinions from him, you really need to have a think. 😆
there is no payment large enough to make the DUP give up their Britishness
The UK government could call theose tax havens to account if it wanted
How exactly, given that the U.K. government has zero constitutional power in them?
I can only imagine how much you would scream if the U.K. govt started throwing its weight around on issues devolved to the Scottish government.
The UK government could call theose tax havens to account if it wanted and could do plenty to stop the tax avoidance but it doesn't want to
I would disagree in turn with that. If they try throwing their weight around the dependancies will look for alternatives (or cave in). Given Maybots negotiating skills I cant see it going to well.
Anyways back to the great news of the day. I thought the grown ups had taken over and everything is now perfect but oddly enough no one else seems to be taking that line.
Britain is increasingly being presented as the dirty-dealing, tax-cheating black sheep of Europe
In the context of today’s news that is truly brilliant
They are by far the most British people in the British Isles. There is nobody more British than the DUP. 😆
Jeez, what a bunch of muppets. They really have backed themselves into a corner. Sinn Féin must be pissing themselves - they haven’t had to do a thing.
deadlydarcy - MemberThey are by far the most British people in the British Isles. There is nobody more British than the DUP.
Jeez, what a bunch of muppets. They really have backed themselves into a corner.
What was it she said. That they absolutely would not accept any deal that meant NI was treated differently from the rest of the UK?
So, not even a much better deal? The DUP absolutely and resolutely will not accept any deal which benefits the people of Northern Ireland. They absolutely will insist on exactly the same terms as the rest of the uk even if it means dire consequences for everyone on the island of Ireland.
More stellar leadership from the woman who (literally) burned 500 million pounds worth of public money, most of which ended up suspiciously enough heating Free P churches and farms and business run by senior DUP members, Orange Order members and Free P clergy.
I’ve noticed the total silence from Sinn Féin. They must be literally laughing themselves to pieces watching this shitstorm unfold
I’d love to see them rock up at Westminster tomorrow morning to take their seats. Just for shits and giggles 😆
Well Ireland have agreed to tax Apple but Gibralta is doing nothing about AIRB&B.
agreed is a bit strong didnt the EU have to take them to court and the opposed
Forced is more accurate but I agree no one is forcing the UK to tax its tax avoiders as we are amongst the worst in the world for this
[url=
https://flic.kr/p/228h1Jb ]DQOxk-RXcAg78a1[/url" rel="nofollow" >]">
by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/151687774@N05/ ]james anderson[/url], on Flickr
Wasn’t it Juncker who when asked about Britain becoming a tax haven, noted ‘it already is’
True, but coming from the former President of Luxembourg.....
The EU must be truly thanking Dave for instigating this whole debacle and making it look, by far, the least worst option
What was it she said. That they absolutely would not accept any deal that meant NI was treated differently from the rest of the UK?
But the DUP don't count trivial issues like abortion and blasphemy which are crimes in NI but not in GB...
I love the cartoon, summed up perfectly.
THEULSTERFRY.COM So if the leavers aren’t getting what they thought they voted for and the ‘remoaners’ think it’s a shit idea anyway, remind me why we are doing this again?
Democracy apparently.
