he is running scared of racists in those northern constituencies
You've got to move from this childish belief that the pro-Brexit vote was the result of the prejudices of provincial thickos and racists.
I do, however, agree with you that Starmer is not going to pursue joining the EU - at least in a first parliament. He has said exactly that. It might be that in 5 years' time he comes back with a new manifesto to seek a mandate to begin negotiations. I agree with you that rejoiners who think Starmer is saying all this with a nod and a wink are self-deluding. I disagree with you that it is a bad idea at this juncture.
You’ve got to move from this childish belief that the pro-Brexit vote was the result of the prejudices of provincial thickos and racists.
Nothing childish about it. Its well proven especially in those red wall seats. Yes it was more than that but that group - the red wall racists is who Starmer is pandering to. ukip played nicely on their prejudices
But here’s the kicker. If Starmer’s strategists are correct, my vote is not required for a Labour majority, right?
I do wonder who the Labour supporters on here are going to be angry at if Labour manage to lose the next election. Will it be Starmer and his strategists or those of us who choose not to vote Labour because they offer nothing other than being a marginally less shit version of the Tories.
My guess is it's going to be our fault.
I think we are conflating the people who are still convinced it was the right thing and being very vocal about it, and those who voted for it in 2016 for a myriad of other reasons. It's amazing how corrosive years of austerity, financial hopelessness, erosion of public services and loss of sense of community can be to your mindset.
My feeling is that a lot of people would find it hard to put into words what drove them to vote Leave, perhaps an emotional response, a general malaise and feeling of being forgotten and ignored - which made them vote for a change, rather than the status quo. Hoping for something a bit better, which of course was never coming.
TV crews and other journalists don't tend to interview those people, perhaps because they regret it, don't want to appear foolish, or perhaps because they just don't want to talk to reporters, so you tend to hear from people who have fixed (and often quite unpleasant) views.
Finally someone has delivered a worthy reason for brexit.
Where can I sign up for ukip?
You’ve got to move from this childish belief that the pro-Brexit vote was the result of the prejudices of provincial thickos and racists.
Nah I'm alright, ive watched a few YouTube clips of QT last night with the ****ing thick pig-ignorant uninformed dickheads and my opinion of the average Brexit voter is entirely valid.
Roofs ,it's all because of roofs.
or those of us who choose not to vote Labour because they offer nothing other than being a marginally less shit version of the Tories
In Labour/Tory marginals, those who didn’t vote Labour at the last election (afraid of nationalised broadband or whatever pitiful excuse they have) are partly to blame for the mess of the last four years. Come the next election, if people don’t vote to unseat Tory MPs, and they squeak in, yes, they will be partly to blame. I’ve been that person many times. Never again. Better than the Tories but not exactly what I want, because of compromises made for people I don’t agree with, be it on EU relations or buying school or university places or whatever… just got to suck it up and help take power off the Tories, accepting a small shift rather than a big jump to where I want the UK be.
thick pig-ignorant uninformed dickheads
...and it's exactly this kind of rubbish that means people skip over thinking what the vote was really about, to glom on to "rejoin EU now" as the fix to everything, to be amazed when it doesn't get you elected, and to fail to fix anything at all.
It wasn't about roofs it was the unfairness that we adhered to the rules and no-one else did.
Unfortunately in struggling to come up with an example of this her brain managed to grasp on something else that was bouncing around inside her cerebrum that old favourite for oldies "Health and Safety gorn mad"
It wasn’t about roofs it was the unfairness that we adhered to the rules and no-one else did.
Obviously, all countries applied different rules in slightly different ways... anyone living in or visiting multiple countries knew that (prime example in our case is how long and hard "we" fought against minimum holiday and maximum unpaid overtime rules)... but, for some reason, people in the UK so often felt it was just others resisting rules, and our government overzealously applying them. Nonsense, of course. Anyone now dealing with German customs will tell you that being overly flexible with the rules isn't really their thing... where as VAT collection in Greece... all countries quite different... harmonisation is always slow and has limits... but no one had more opt outs and exceptions in place than the UK.
Obviously she was planted by the BBC to make brexit voters look as thick as pig shit.
In Labour/Tory marginals, those who didn’t vote Labour at the last election (afraid of nationalised broadband or whatever pitiful excuse they have) are partly to blame for the mess of the last four years.
True, but in this case the 'pitiful excuse' will be that they won't vote for a party that has no policies they agree with and seem to be a continuation of the status quo with the promise they will do it a bit more competently.
Given the choice between voting for a party all of whose major policies I broadly agree with and a party with no major policies I agree with I'll choose the one I agree with. Even if that means I don't get to be on the winning team.
John Curtis analysis
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/23/britain-2016-brexit-vote-eu-referendum-labour
I think an entire narrative is being constructed around Roof Lady to try to imagine she had a point. She really didnt. She had a false preconception then created a bullshit narrative around it because that's what morons do.
Funnily enough listening to her and thinking about roofs... one word sprung into my head - bungalow. Which is ironic as they don't have anything upstairs either.
🤡🇬🇧🤡🇬🇧🤡🇬🇧🤡🇬🇧🤡
Thanks for the link TJ. Is that really any different from where UK sentiment was before the referendum was called though? Where the public are now, and where they end up if Labour make the next election about Brexit and the campaigns take on an in/out narrative are two very different things.
Some follow on commentary in the same paper…
Not agreeing with it, just posting it.
Do agree with this bit though…
As for the terms of our exit, ask anyone who buys from, sells to or is stuck in a queue to visit the continent if we enjoy the “exact same benefits” we once did.
…b2c trade across the border is a ******* mess post Brexit. I don’t think it’s something most people give a shit about though. Until it’s their employer calling in the administrators.
Yes - its a huge change from pre brexit. I remain convinced that labours brexiteer stance will cost them more seats than it gains as folk vote SNP / Green / Lib Dem as a pro europe vote and thus let tories / SNP in in many seats.
Its also still a year till the election - how much further pro europe is the public sentiment going to shift? How much more would it shift with labour changing to a pro EU stance?
Many people might want to be rid of the Tories and to reverse Brexit… but only one of those things can be achieved in one day of voting… the other is a decade plus long project. I know you think otherwise. But Labour can’t make the claims that you do, they’d be pulled apart on them.
But Labour can’t make the claims that you do, they
’d be pulled apart on themhave to pander to the racists.
FTFY.
'Pulled apart' might suggest there is an argument to unpick. To any sane person, there isn't if you are talking about the desirability of reversing all or some of Brexit.
I mean what would be involved, the path needed and the timescale required to “reverse Brexit” or join the CU&SM. It is a long slow journey, if Labour promised it as a quick and easy fix to the countries ills they’d be called out on it. And rightly so. Normalising and steadying the current relationship with the EU and other European countries is all that can be done this year and next. Promising anything else right now is a good way for minority parties to shore up their support… Labour would need a plan to make it happen though… what’s yours? How long would it take? Who would need to brought on board, and how?
Labour would need a plan to make it happen though… what’s yours?
Get elected, have piss up, open negotiations the next day.
I don't have to pretend, though. 🤷♂️
Now it’s Biden stopping us getting all those Brexit goodies…
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1785104/biden-iain-duncan-smith-brexit-northern-ireland
IDS is a prime example of failing upwards, absolutely unbelievable that he is considered a grandee by anyone but then it is the Daily Express.
US sources have claimed to the Daily Express US that the President had received a special briefing after his Northern Ireland visit to say he had insulted America's number one ally.
Why, what did he say about Saudi Arabia???
Daily Express headline today is demanding Rishi "talks up" Brexit.
Popcorn gifs at the ready.
There is Twitter gossip about the Tories not being happy with Sunak's performance, and letters are coming in to the 1922 committee.
Daily Express is full of Thames Water sewage outfall. Brexit is dead and I'm sure even the Conservatives are not so stupid as to not know this. Their election woes are not going to be fixed with a few Brexit slogans.
Daily Express headline today is demanding Rishi “talks up” Brexit.
So what?
More lies about something that was a pack of lies to start with and has been a pack of lies ever since.
🤷♂️
We need more EU workers, admits leading Tory Brexiter
George Eustice, the former environment secretary, is calling for a reciprocal visa scheme so that under-35s can work across the EU and Britain
there is nothing to say to this but Duh!
^^^^
It was never about reality.
🤷♂️
Right wing libertarians having buyer remorse?
I still think the whole brexit saga needs to be investigated as the outcome has done appalling damage to the UK triggered by ideology.
I still think the whole brexit saga needs to be investigated as the outcome has done appalling damage to the UK triggered by ideology.
I'm sure the damage they have done is so serious and long term that it could be considered treason.
And if it really was bankrolled by "Russia" and self interested fund managers, I'm not sure there could be any other description.
there is nothing to say to this but Duh!
Hang on. I'm as remainer as anyone here, but in the spirit of fairness rather than just echo-chambering: Brexiteers always wanted to be able to control immigration, not never to have any. So a visa scheme, with limits that can be set and that can be targeted at certain parts of the workforce is not incompatible with the concept of Brexit and was in fact part of what they said they wanted during the campaign.
I'm not supporting it - I thought FoM was ace - but let's be correct here.
A[part from the brexit ultras did say we didn't need EU immigration and it was obvious we did
Brexiteers always wanted to be able to control immigration, not never to have any.
Well, this is the issue, we always had full control over immigration as EU members, we could kick out "wrong 'uns" to are hearts content within the framework of EU law. Which UK was instumental in making, but hey.
Collectivley the UK for whatever reason decided it was too expensive to keep track of immigration, so opened the doors so to speak, and then blamed it on the EU.
An now, quel suprise we still have the same problem, only compounded because we've pissed off a lot of 'would be' highly skilled EU imigrants with bullshit visa requirements, and we still have loads of (arguably unlskilled and without paperwork) desperados in boats trying to get here.
It's a very British problem if ever I saw one.
I’m sure the damage they have done is so serious and long term that it could be considered treason.
To be honest I watched the News Agents on YouTube and the much missed from main TV Emily Maitlis, was making the same point. Worth a watch.
Brexiteers always wanted to be able to control immigration, not never to have any
No, it was never about "controlling immigration". Brexiters used immigration as a dog-whistle issue to get people to vote for them. Having a go at dirty foreigners coming over here, taking our jobs, sponging off the benefits, all the usual nonsense rhetoric.
They've now painted themselves into a corner where they have to make good on all their nonsense promises, but there's no way to do that which does not harm the country.
And once again we come back to 'Which Brexit did you vote for?'.
Something that meant a lot of different things to a lot of different people.
And once again we come back to ‘Which Brexit did you vote for?’.
Well I voted for the status quo (not the band ovs - that would have been horrific).
And why would anyone from the EU want to come here now that Brexit has put up prices for food etc higher in the UK than mainland Europe?
It's a very interesting question... maybe the people fleeing war and depravity are not aware of such knowledge?
They have clearly never been to Bridlington or Bury.
Or Nottingham.
No one in thier right mind, for example, would choose to live somewhere like Dewsbury.
So we have to ask ourselves why.
I’m sure the damage they have done is so serious and long term that it could be considered treason.
Particularly whilst being illegally funded by a hostile foreign government.
You have to hand it Putin - he totally undermined 'western' and European unity - and did so whilst spending very little.
A few bot farms, a bit of illegal funding and buying off a few right wing politicians. It is a quite remarkable achievement if you look at it in a detached manner.
