I'm not voting Labour.
They don't need the rejoin vote, apparently.
That's literally it for me.
Libdem or Green it is.
👍
SUPPORT among Scottish voters to rejoin the EU is soaring, a poll has revealed.
A new Panelbase survey has found Scotland is even more opposed to Brexit than in 2016, when 62% voted against it.
Now, 72% have said they would vote to remain, while 69% would vote to rejoin the EU, up from 61% in January.
From the national last year.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/20680808.support-rejoining-eu-skyrockets-among-voters-scotland/
Yes Jonv - but with a pro EU stance they would also have taken some of the 500 seats that went to lib dem and green. thats my opinion. when the tories lose 1000 seats but labour only gains 500 of them thats a disappointment for labour and no endorsement of their stance. where there is a credible pro EU party to vote for many voters took that choice and voted pro EU.
Up here I have no doubt at all Starmers pro brexit position will cost them loads of seats. SNP are very weak and vulnerable and even the best projections show labour still coming 2nd to the SNP and given how soft the labour vote is once the SNP and greens start hammering them on being brexiteers in the campaign I am sure the ;labour vote share will slip
This shit again.
Yes, this shit again. Little Nicky got a smell of official car leather interior and lost his scruples and mind, failed to press his advantage on holding the balance of power and delivered us all to Austerity. With a working spine he might have achieved great things but all we got were wasted opportunities.
The ability to say no was open to both sides in the coalition one side used theirs and threatened the junior partner with loss of governing influence. A stiffer spine and we may well have reined in Cameron and Osborne to better social democracy as without LD support they could have achieved nothing. Remember that, nothing would have been possible in a hung parliament.
The risk to LD support was a zero sum. No support be crucified by the press, support and be crucified by the electorate. Of the two the press would have been easier to neuter.
SNP are very weak and vulnerable and even the best projections show labour still coming 2nd to the SNP
Not according to John Curtice, the current police investigation has made no difference to voting intentions.
That says that if we had the referendum today that 72% would vote to remain. Not that they vote to rejoin
69% (which is not last time I checked 'more than 70%') said they would vote to rejoin.
To extrapolate - 3% wish we hadn't done it but don't see the point in reversing now.
That's the issue - in constituencies where that 3% or whatever the equivalent is in England, etc are in marginals, that skews the outcome, and is the calculus that is driving the position..
but with a pro EU stance they would also have taken some of the 500 seats that went to lib dem and green.
I still don't think you've answered the question of why if Rejoin is such a vote winner, why not the reverse - why didn't LD and Green get all 1000 and more?
I did correct the "more than" apologies
I think lib dems and greens taking half the tory losses on a pro EU stance shows that very well. I believe / its my opinion that a pro EU labour would have taken 700+
You do not believe the very strong showing of the pro EU parties with shows anything - I do. along with the polling which shows pyublic opinion on brexit is shifting strongly and quickly towrds rejoin.
Even that poll daffy put up in defense of his stance shows pro EU as being the strongest position in winning votes even if its a pretty even split -
Its all interpretation and opinions
"Once again – I think living in Scotland with a huge pro EU majority and Plenty of Pro EU parties to vote for gives a very differnt perspective
Up here labours EU stance is a clear vote loser"
That's a fairly good point. But my perhaps rather simple deduction would be that the analysis behind Starmers stance suggests any lost seats in scotland would be more than balanced by gains elsewhere? I.e the gains from flipping blue to red more than offset yellow not flipping red.
I will not vote for a party that supports Brexit. thats a red line for me
sometimes you've got to pick a side, when you don't the Tories benefit.
I will not vote for a party that supports Brexit. thats a red line for me
I will vote however I need to get the tories out. Right now, that is the political vacuum of LD, but they've got the only chance in my area.
yes nickc - an I will probably pick a pro EU party knowing full well that they will never support the tories
In my constituency tories have no chance. Its probably going to be a labour / SNP marginal but could end up 3 way with the greens
NO matter who I vote for it will not be a tory seat and neither the SNP or greens will support a tory government. so in my seat it makes no difference to the likelihood of a tory government
If it was a tory / labour marginal then I might have to hold my nose to vote labour. But its not
Jonv - ( from Daffys link) its those 37% of voters that are more likely to vote for a rejoin party that I believe Starmer is in danger of losing their votes. to lib dems, green and SNP and that could lose him the majority. I believe with the right campaign that will not put off those 36% who want to concentrate on other issues - they are unlikely to shift their vote from labour to tory
Again - opinions and interpretation and as above I think living here gives a different view because we have pro rejoin parties to vote for
Some things are facts.
Both labour and conservatives are anti EU. They literally say so.
Neither will get my vote in the next GE or any local election on that basis alone.
‘I want to start a massive political cockfight right now that will consume everything’
Its going to happen anyway in the campaign where the pro EU parties will be given fair media coverage. Starmer is going to have to argue one side or the other. If he continues his pro brexit stance he will also be arguing against public opinion.
Brexit is going to be an issue at the next election even if both labour and tories want to try to ignore it. the pro EU parties will make sure of that.
Both labour and conservatives are anti EU. They literally say so.
That's a massive leap. I guarantee that most of the people in those parties aren't "anti" EU, but they have to say what people want to hear in order to get votes. That's the whole concept of democracy.
I believe Starmer is in danger of losing their votes
Of course, they will be monitoring the situation and will probably adjust their rhetoric. Probably one reason for floating it now is to test the water and see what the response is where it matters.
These things aren't just dreamed up in the pub one night, they employ teams of people whose job it is to analyse everything all the time.
I think one of the issues here is living in Scotland that is much more pro EU and has political leaders that call out brexit as the disaster it is alters the view. In England ( dunno about wales) you do not have political leaders doing this.
This isn't true, though. Scotland is not some magic exception. Despite the repeated nationalist and provincial moaning that the UK is ruled by London, London overwhelmingly voted against Brexit. There are political leaders in England calling out Brexit as a disaster. The fact that you haven't heard of them or are not interested in them is a different topic.
https://www.london.gov.uk/mayor-calls-end-vow-silence-brexit
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028.amp#cobssid=s
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-06/some-brexiteers-will-admit-eu-exit-has-been-a-disaster-amber-rudd#xj4y7vzkg
Fair enough . However its not really the same as having a pro eu government
There are political leaders in England calling out Brexit as a disaster.
Not sure that your interpretation of "political leaders" is the same as mine. That looks like some political fringe figures calling out Brexit as a disaster. The leadership (Labour and Tory) seems fully in favour.
Note also two contradictory approaches to calling out Brexit as a disaster. You can either say that it was a stupid idea badly done that's inevitably going to be harmful, or you can say that the current Brexit is a disaster because it's not been done hard enough yet. The latter doesn't help.
That looks like some political fringe figures calling out Brexit as a disaster.
The population of London is 50% larger than that of Scotland. Its economy is twice the size of Scotland's. Five times more EU citizens live in London than in Scotland.
Khan is not a fringe figure in British politics - although I can see why some Scottish nationalists would object to him.
A country is not the same as a city. Somewhat patronising policecameraaction
Again – you cannot fix the ship properly without reversing brexit
Yeah, yeah… we know
2 problems…
1. Getting a majority of the UK electorate to vote for reversing Brexit (including freedom of movement -EEK!) - good luck with that
2. The actual process of reversing Brexit - good luck with that too. Hope you’re not busy with owt else to do for the next 20 or 30 years
Other than those 2 issues, I’m sure it’ll all be peachy ****ing creamy. It’ll be just like we never left
1. Getting a majority of the UK electorate to vote for reversing Brexit (including freedom of movement -EEK!) – good luck with that
the majority are in favour - and with some leadership...............;.
the majority are in favour – and with some leadership……………;.
No, the majority isn't. As per the link I posted before, it's close to 50% but not quite and potentially topping out.
- and it's not about the majority, it's about what the key marginals think
the majority are in favour
Sounds very familiar, that
If only I could remember where I’d heard such unwavering certainty voiced so confidently before
Hmmmmmmmm….. when was it….?
Oh… oh…. I REMEMBER NOW… May 2016!
Do I win a prize? I know that Bullseye used to hand out speedboats, but when it comes to things I’ve no room or use for I’ve always quite fancied a shepherds hut
Ok - now imagine political leadership saying " its a disaster it needs to be reversed" how much will that add to the polling - and take out the don't knows and its a clear majority 🙂
Do I win a prize?
No - you will bankrupt me with your Greggs habit 🙂
Ok – now imagine political leadership saying ” its a disaster it needs to be reversed” how much will that add to the polling
Not half as much as they’ll lose when the same incredibly effective ‘bloody foreigners, eh?! The murdering, raping, job-stealing bastards’ campaign cranks up again
This worked then, and it’ll work just as well next time…
A country is not the same as a city. Somewhat patronising policecameraaction
Patronising is calling the political elected leader of that city a "fringe figure" in English politics because it doesn't suit your nationalist agenda or you just don't know anything about English politics.
Since we are getting into it, Khan has been consistently outspoken about Brexit, air quality, climate change and austerity. He has expanded ULEZ to protect a population greater than that of the whole of Scotland, reduced the price of bus travel, used procurement rules cleverly to get safer low level HGVs, pushed the Met Police (50% larger than Police Scotland btw) into a reform stance and been vocal with criticism...These are real practical things you can achieve when you prioritise competence and don't blame your constitutional limitations for your own failings. He has also been re-elected several times despite a tidal wave of racial and other abuse online (mostly from people that don't live in London afaics).
How's it going with the political giants in Edinburgh? Enjoying the ferries? Bottle recycling going okay?
A country is not the same as a city.
Not spent much time in London, have you? It's not just 'a' city.
Not going to open that debate here but it's an interesting one.
I lived in London for a while. Its just another big dirty polluted city like Paris or Barcelona etc etc To compare it to a country is fatuous. Kahn has nothing like the powers of the Scots parliament. London does not have its own legal system. I did not call him a "fringe" pokitician
I can't even be bothered to list all the accomplishments of the Scots parliament over its lifetime to compare.
It was brought to my attention on the Sunak thread, but tonight at 2230 on beeb 1 could be the TV comedy event of the year.
A Question Time special from Clackton (😂) only open to audience members who voted Leave.
Guaranteed laughs, I suspect.
I wonder, will the BBC actually do it properly and replace the theme tune with the one from the Benny Hill Show?
Absolutely ****ing brilliant!
Or this:
A Question Time special from Clackton
That’s good, as afterwards they can lead all these stupid ****ers off the pier.
A Question Time special from Clackton (😂) only open to audience members who voted Leave.
I understand that the Govt were given an invitation to fill a spot on the panel, but turned it down? Presumably they're too frit to face the people that voted for it.
I understand that the Govt were given an invitation to fill a spot on the panel, but turned it down? Presumably they’re too frit to face the people that voted for it.
I don’t get it. Seeing as it is all going so swimmingly, I would have thought the government would be all over that invite.
😂😂😂😂
That’s good, as afterwards they can lead all these stupid **** off the pier.
It'll be a piece of piss to get them there too - just announce that there’s an opportunity to do a bit of migrant dinghy spotting.
Seeing as it is all going so swimmingly, I would have thought the government would be all over that invite.
Precisely. All the ministers wanted to go and so they decided it was fairest if no one went.
Its the only explanation.
7th anniversary of *that* vote.
I wonder what “balance” criteria they used for audience selection. I’m guessing to won’t have only 1/5 saying Brexit has gone well…
Less than a fifth of Brexit voters believe it has been a success seven years on from the 2016 referendum, according to new polling.
The findings, based on an online survey of 4,005 UK adults from May 26 to June 2 and carried out by Public First for UK in a Changing Europe, show that 18% of Leave voters believe Brexit has gone "well" or "very well".
I lived in London for a while. Its just another big dirty polluted city like Paris or Barcelona etc etc To compare it to a country is fatuous.
Yes, certainly there's nothing in London that compares to the importance of a country like Moldova or Andorra or eSwatini. Yep, the kinds of complexity associated with being a sovereign state are completely unknown to us plebs that merely live in a semi-autonomous, sub-national local government area. 🤔
We thought Johnson was a **** for spending £43m on Joanna Lumley's bridge that didn't get built. But that's amateur hour compared to Sturgeon blowing £300m on ferries that aren't finished!
As for the Brexit Bumpkin Question Time, nope…..got as far as John Redwood opening his mouth before I switched off. I knew I’d have dreams of going full on Ryan Gosling in Drive, specifically the elevator scene on redwood, and most of the slack jawed dribbling idiots in the audience deserve the same.
It was brought to my attention on the Sunak thread, but tonight at 2230 on beeb 1 could be the TV comedy event of the year.
Not much of a laugh so far. Alastair Campbell is telling it to them straight - they were lied to.
The opposition is playing catch-up with public opinion in recognising that Britain needs reintegration with Europe
Labour is committed to a programme of entirely sensible tinkering at the edges of the problem – alignment with EU regulations as a precondition for lowering trade barriers; more liberal visa policies; renewed partnership with cultural and scientific institutions that make up the wider constellation of the European project.
That is an agenda for reintegration at the periphery of Europe, which is sound diplomacy and helpful at the economic margins, but cannot substantially shift the dial as long as Britain is still outside the single market and customs union.
Wake up Starmer! Try some leadership
Article in the grauniad which like always praises Starmer over all and is full of wishful thinking
Just got in and watching QT on catch up
The only person the Tory’s could get is John Redwood
JOHN *ING REDWOOD!!!
That tells you everything you need to know
*ing clowns!
Finally a tangible benefit I can use.
I'm going to go up on my roof later and no faceless Brussels bureaucrat can stop me!
https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1671964786974662667
There's a load on twitter, satirists can once again take the week off.
I didn't watch it in the end. I doubt I'll bother. It sounds about as funny as watching lambs waiting patiently in a holding pen at the abattoir. And very similar on a number of levels.
I may rewatch it in full later, but hearing dickhead roof guy holding that up as a benefit to a guy whose business may go under due to difficulties and costs of importing goods, that was too much.
