[Closed] Alcoholism and a professional career (heavy moral debate content)

if you're not an alcoholic any more I don't see the problem.

I would personally hide it as you know full well your application would go in the bin 99 times out of 100. Whilst this may be wrong it is the truth.

Personally, I believe that so long as it doesn't affect your ability to do your job, what you do out of work is your own concern. For example, professional footballers who get suspended for having extramarital affairs - why? Does it affect their ability to kick a ball? Who cares?

With alcohol it's a bit different; are you(*) going to be rolling in work pished, for instance? Are you on call? Are you applying for a job in a pub?

If you're a [i]recovered [/i]alcoholic, again, that's a bit different. My question would be "are you likely to relapse" - if not, who cares.

All that said though, I'm not most people. I can only speak for myself, and that doesn't really answer your question. Lots of people would still judge you, I'd expect.

(* - using 'you' generically here, I don't know who you're talking about, it's just easier to type)

Don't see how it's relevant, and may well go against you, which would of course be wrong.

I don't recruit these days but when I did .........

Would I employ an ex alcoholic?
Probably not, why take the risk if there are other suitably qualified applicants?

therefore, I'd hide it

if you're not an alcoholic any more I don't see the problem.

I thought once an alcoholic , always an alcoholic ?

Don't declare it but be honest and frank if it comes up. Tell them why this makes you better than, not "just as good as" other candidates i.e. self control, perspective, never have a hangover at work etc.

this is all really good opinion gathering.thankyou all - please continue!

if you're not an alcoholic any more I don't see the problem.

There is no such thing as "not an alcoholic any more". Once you are an alcoholic you will be one for the rest of your life, no matter how long it's been since your last drink. That being said a bloke I work beside is an alcoholic (no longer drinks obviously) and he is more than capable of doing his job.

Would I employ an ex alcoholic?
Probably not, why take the risk if there are other suitably qualified applicants?

therefore, I'd hide it

There's maybe a tendancy to think if you have the personality to take to drink, then it's always there - which is why some people use the term "recovering" alcoholic (and why william burroughs said you're always a junkie, even of you're off the drug, it's always there, waiting)
But, admitting to it shows some strength of character and says you've faced up to the problem, plus if you tell porkies and get found out, it's often worse.

But I'd hide it.

EDIT - like gonefishin said while I was struggling with this keyboard

There would be no need, or indeed reason, to make it public. It could hinder you, it will undoubtedly cast a shadow on your employability which (if you're fully "recovered" and t-total) would be unfair. However you could claim that hiding it was unfair to the employer, who is not in full possession of the facts when employing you and would have legitimate concerns. While admitting and confronting your problems is definitely a positive thing and would be a positive, the risk of relapse is sure to colour any application. Keep it quiet unless specifically asked.

Indeed there is no cure - Only a life long recovery. An alcoholic is so for life.

But alcoholic life is an existance - no more that that.
But a full active life is precious!

must be said tho the saying "secrets keep you sick" applies hugely here.

Alcoholic, hmm, by what system of measurement do we define what is alcoholism?

I drink every single day. Normally 2 or 3 cans/bottles of beer a night. I 'need' a beer at the end of the day. It serves as a crutch, I'll admit that. I'm working on the issues that lead me to feel the need to have a beer each night.

But I'm not addicted to alcohol. The manner of my drinking means that I don't have enough for the alcohol to have anything more than a slight effect. Over an evening I will drink 5-6 units of alcohol over 6 hours or so. In fact if I go to the pub, I notice it can take a surprisingly small amount to have a noticeable effect on me. I will be drinking at a much faster rate mind. The same number of units, in a third or quarter of the time.

Plus, I only drink beer. Wine occasionally with a meal if dining with others, spirits very rarely indeed. I have a 'curfew' of 7pm; I don't drink before then unless in a pub or with others. I only go to the pub once or twice a week tops.

See, it's not about alcohol for me, it's about beer. I'm a 'beeraholic'! 😀

Would others consider me an alcoholic? I wouldn't . I don't need the drug, or even physically crave it, it's purely psychological and limited to just one type of alcoholic beverage. My GP has no concerns about my drinking, and say's I needn't worry about the health risks, as I'm otherwise pretty healthy.

I accept it's a fine line mind. But if I absolutely had to stop drinking, I'd not suffer any physical, and only slight psychological, withdrawal.

Isn't that the definition? Someone who is ill without a drink?

tell em nowt 🙂

The only place I can see that it might be incumbent on you to fess up is in the 'history of medical illnesses' section, at which point a recovering alcoholic might feel guilty for not reporting it, but a full steam ahead boozer wouldn't think twice so it is all a matter of perspective.

I think you only start to become a worry when your alcohol consumtion affects other people or your health, up to that point I reckon you are quite safe. My father is a recovering alcoholic and when I told him I have a beer or a glass of wine most nights he laughed and me and told that they were probably medicinal!

@Torminalis - would that mean then that if you ever tried to claim on your company health insurance, or death-in-service benefits, that the insurance company would refuse to pay out?

Hmm - tough one. I've interviewed and recruited a lot of folks over the years and don't recall any declared recovered alcoholics. There have been a couple of undeclared alcoholics though - some I've only found out after employing them, but a couple I'd found out before we'd made an offer.

If think if I had an applicant who was otherwise clearly the best candidate and had declared they were a recovered alcoholic (or for example they had been medicated for depression in the past) then I'd still recruit them. If they were up against an otherwise equivalent candidate then it certainly becomes a more difficult choice as it ups the risk factor. I think the recruitment route would also be a factor - if the were direct rather than via an agent then I'd be more inclined to take the risk.

Elfinsafety - I've unfortunately had a lot of experience of alcoholism within my wider family and I'd say that while you might be ok now you do appear to be on a slippery slope. It's not the volumes that would concern me (although averaging 2 or 3 beers every night does seem a lot) but more the "needing a beer" at the end of the day situation.

if you ever tried to claim on your company health insurance, or death-in-service benefits

just a hunch, but I don't think he'll ever get to claim off his companies death in service policy 😉

It would be damaging, I think, for many careers, particularly professionals.

I can think of one lawyer who worked at the firm I trained at who drank vodka from her coffee mug at her desk. She went to prison, convicted of having killed two of her children (she was later released on appeal).

I refused to acknowledge that I was severely depressed at the end of last year, and as a result it will probably cost me my career. I should have sought help, but one of the appalling decisions I took was thinking that it would wreck my chances of getting another job. I'll probably lose the one I've now got.

Alcoholics have come to accept that they are always recovering, and it seems to be a means for many to rebuild their lives. A lady who did one of my massages at Mayhem told me she was a recovering alcoholic. Her strength to overcome it was enlightening.

It's something I would keep a secret, but for how long I don't know.

epicsteve id have to agree. that was me 9 years ago.

Elfinsafety its often a self esteem issue in the early days

Don't hide it, don't mention it.

What I mean is don't volunteer information about it at all but if asked either in a medical questionnaire or otherwise then fess up.

I can't actually think of an instance where it would come up unless you volunteered the info. For example medical questionnaires ask how much you drink now - not at some point in the past.

Some great world leaders were alcoholics. Winston Churchill was absolutely leathered for the entire second world war. He used to drink with breakfast. He seemed to do alright on it.

Hitler was teetotal. Make of that what you will

Epicsteve- I agree. Which is why I'm addressing the issues that leave me 'needing' a beer. I used to smoke Cannabis, in much the same manner. Would always 'need' a spliff before bedtime. But if I was staying somewhere where I couldn't have a smoke, then I'd still be ok, if a little tense, and getting to sleep would be a little difficult possibly but I didn't have to have it. Which is why I know I'm not an alcoholic, yet. It's not so much the chemical, as the need for reassurance. That's why I have highly qualified and very well paid professonals on the case! 🙂

Hitler was teetotal. Make of that what you will

Binners; surely the worst kind are those who've 'left their wallet at home', eh?

I don't drink alcohol anymore, I've never felt the NEED to drink but I'd say I used to enjoy it to excess, found that the hangovers are intolerable so that's me n booze finished. Az have you tried becks blue? It's a pallettable alternative to the socially acceptable drug

would that mean then that if you ever tried to claim on your company health insurance, or death-in-service benefits, that the insurance company would refuse to pay out?

I am not sure I understand your point. Recovering alcoholics don't drink so that should have no nearing on it, a current alcoholic wouldn't report it so the insurance company presumably would not know.

Elfinsafety - you're right. I think they should all do the decent thing and retire to their bunker with a revolver 🙂

hitlers nazi scientist bastards created methadone (heroin substitute) to make the poor subscripted "normal" german sods go out to fight kill with no regard for thier own lives (unproven urban legend)

now we pacify addictics daily with it as a "recovery" process!

that the insurance company would refuse to pay out?

doesn't that type of insurance even cover suicide after a qualification period? It's so rare the extra liability is negligible...

Az have you tried becks blue? It's a pallettable alternative to the socially acceptable drug

You know I have been considering the alky-free options, just not got around to trying any. I shall have a look in my local supermarket when I go in a little bit. I figured if it's just the taste of beer, then maybe a good alky-free version might be the way forward. I understand there's a couple of wheaty beer options too...

My GP thinks that moderate alcohol use is far more preferable to Valium etc. I can't pretend the slight effect of the alcohol isn't part of the appeal.

Binners; the next time the 'no wallet' situation occurs, just hand the offensive offending offender said revolver, with a single bullet, and send them outside. It's the kindest way.

And keep one spare in case the daft sod stuffs it up, which is quite likely, let's be honest.

DONT ACCEPT A VALIUM PRESCRIPTION PLEASE!!!

Eh? Why not?

Mmm... Valium.

Especially when mixed with alcohol.

There are well documented cases of Pilots who have been suspended, been through treatment/rehab/recovery, and are back flying safely again.

I'd rather be flown by one of them, than by one of those who have not fessed up and are still drinking.

Elfinsafety
yep i hear your humour dude - but i'd hate to tell you the real story.
that was my life for many many months.
not pretty,and nearly life ending

Unless a job specified for any relevant medical problems to be declared then I wouldn't also unless you've sought help from the docs or its lead you to get a criminal record then why should it rear its head up in the future unless there's a relapse.
I know that certain things would lead to no job offer where I work and I'm sure would mean getting the boot if found out later.
Some skeletons are best kept in the closet.

I have been considering the alky-free options

There's good and bad options here. Beck's and Cobra are surprisingly drinkable, get 'em in the fridge though cos they're rancid warm.

Kaliber is minging, as is, uh, something that begins with 'B' and sounds like Baverian.

yep i hear your humour dude - but i'd hate to tell you the real story.

TBH, that I can deal with this openly and with humour is proof that I'm 'winning the battle'. Thanks for the kind concern, but I do fortunately have things pretty much under control these days. Hence why I'm not particularly concerned about sliding down the slippery slope of dependency. I her what yer saying though, and respect it.

I would not wish to make light of others' problems in any way, however.

something that begins with 'B' and sounds like Baverian.

Ah, here we go, it's Halal, too! 😀

[img] [/img]

"Baveria" in fact; Baveria 0.0 'wheat' beer, rotten. They do a 'malt' beer also, which I've not tried but sounds like it might be nice.

Erdinger I didn't get on with either.

Bitburger Drive is alright - just usually dearer that the first two I mentioned.

Just stumbled across this,

http://www.alcoholfree.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=2_12&products_id=405

... and I think I'm going to make a purchase.

FWIW - I'm kind of where MrNutt is - ", I've never felt the NEED to drink but I'd say I used to enjoy it to excess" - so I'm trying to cut out midweek drinking and just have a social few at the weekends. Alcohol-free beers are a reasonable alternative, but I'm still looking for other suggestions for non-alcoholic options. What I -really- want is something that tastes like bourbon and Coke; I could massively cut down my drinking if such a thing existed.

As an aside, humour for me is a coping mechanism. I'm not stranger to black humour and sick jokes, but when I've found myself on the wrong side of unpleasant situations I have and will welcome the humour, piss-taking and laughter. Perhaps it's a cultural thing, but to my mind you laugh or you sink. Otherwise it's Serious.

I have good friends who I know I can rely on to line up and call me 'Stumpy' if I ever lose a limb, and I welcome that, I truly do.

I'm not an alcoholic, I'm a alcoholist

I recently interviewed a chap for a job who, when asked what his greatest achievement was he told me it was his battle with alcoholism and success in giving up the drink.

I thought for a bit and considered his response to be open, honest and right in the sense of the question so I told him that was indeed an achievement to be proud of.

He got the job.

I think I'm right in saying that you are under no legal obligation to declare this.

I know a couple of "recovered" alcoholics, one of whom is a fireman. I'd have no hesitation at all about employing one.