[Closed] Warranty claims - would you be happy with this result?

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I'd say what you got is an acceptable result. Unfortunately it's not up to the manufacturer to fund your choice of hub from somewhere else.
It would be nice of the shop to refund you the $90 for the parts and call it quits, but that's up to them, and likely independent to everything else.

It's a shit one, yeah, but I'd say fair enough.

It seems a reasonable result too me.

To be honest I don't know why you didn't swap out the wheels when you bought the bike

I'm also surprised you got anything, they would normally argue it's a wearing part

Move on, don't ride DT370 hubs

You’re $300 out of pocket so I’d say no. Conversely the decision to buy a different hub was yours and the shop does seem to have tried to help. The only thing I would argue about is the shops decision to apply YOUR warranty credit against their bill, but it depends how much you want to fall out with the shop I guess. For my part I would simply move on but I don’t think I’d go back there...

I’ll never understand how the bike industry has conditioned us as consumers to treat bike shops totally differently to any other retailer. If your telly broke you’d call John Lewis and they’d sort it out - if the guy in the shop started talking to you about “I’ll see what Samsung can do blah blah” then you’d say “WTF I don’t work here! Sort my telly out and call me when it’s sorted”

So to answer your question - shop labour isn’t your problem and you should only be out of pocket the difference between the RRP of the hub that broke and the price of the fancy hub you upgraded to.

Distributer has since agreed to provide a $190 credit for broken freehub, of which the shop have applied $100 against the wheel re-build labour so I’m left with a shop credit of $90, yet I’m ~$400 out of pocket.

Unless you got an absolute killer deal where they have made no money on your original purchase, I would want all £190 of that money in cash. They make a margin on bikes to cover costs of running a shop and selling bikes, this is one of those costs.

If your telly broke you’d call John Lewis and they’d sort it out – if the guy in the shop started talking to you about “I’ll see what Samsung can do blah blah” then you’d say “WTF I don’t work here! Sort my telly out and call me when it’s sorted”

That’s exactly what John Lewis do in my experience

shop labour isn’t your problem

Yes it is, he sourced a wheel from elsewhere to get himself going, that’s entirely separate to the warranty claim

A similar thing happened to me back in 2013 with a Specialized rear hub. Lots of backwards and forwards between the shop and Specialized over the course of a few months so I ended up buying a better wheelset online so that I could at least get out over the summer. In the end, Specialized sent the shop a 29er rear wheel for them to take the hub off and rebuild onto my 26er wheel but the shop wanted me to pay for the labour. I told them where to go and just sold the 29er wheel on the classifieds here. I never bought anything from that bike shop again.

Why on earth didn't you keep it simple ask the original shop to supply and equivalent working wheel, without additional cost to yourself?

I'm surprised that you even got the $190. A freehub giving up after 18 months of use is pretty squarely in the realms of wear & tear, although arguably somewhat dependent on use, cleaning, maintenance etc. Having had that type of thing happen before, I've never even considered putting it in as a warranty claim.

he sourced a wheel from elsewhere to get himself going, that’s entirely separate to the warranty claim

Yes, this is the thing. It's reasonable to expect the supplier to replace the broken part with an identical part free-of-charge, but if you buy different stuff to get the bike running, they aren't obliged to pay for that. It sounds to me like the shop is doing what they can to help you out.

There are two separate issues here. The warranty claim and the new hub. The bike shop have fallen a bit short. They should've tried harder to keep you riding. Finding a hub or lending a wheel. As they didn't you chose your own solution. I don't think they should cover that cost. As for the warranty, firstly I'd want money not store credit, secondly getting credit for a part they can't supply could be a bit poor but about as much as I'd expect, and actually ok as its a wear item. So overall not great but not terrible

petrieboy

I’ll never understand how the bike industry has conditioned us as consumers to treat bike shops totally differently to any other retailer.

^^ This

Ultimately, what did the warranty say.... did it offer to get you back riding within a specific period ?

would you be happy with this result?

It depends what the warranty actually says... ultimately the manufacturer would presumably pass this to DT Swiss?

I would've expected...

Whatever goes on between the shop, the importer/distributer to get you going again once they've decided that the warranty is legit is none of your concern. You have an issue, it's up to them to sort it. If they had a problem getting the same hub, then I would've expected some options....We can wait for a hub it'll take "x" long. We can upgrade the hub with a bit of cash from you, or we can downgrade the hub with some credit to make up the difference, or we can give you the retail value of the hub, so you can buy a replacement. There would be no money changing hands (unless you agreed to it to change something) to get you back up and running, no new spokes, or rim tape or labour costs or anything

That you bought a new hub and had the shop build it onto a wheel as an interim measure, is your own business and outside the warranty process, and between you and shop. it's up to you and the shop to agree how to settle that.

I think mixing those two separate things is where you seem to have got tangled up.

If you get all £190 back you'll then be paying the shop the £100 for the spokes and nipples, so either way, you'll still be left with £90.

I'm not sure it is clear cut as there is room for 'understanding' on both sides. If the wheel had been left with the shop and you hadn't got another hub from another shop then all monies should be back to you, but you sourced an alternative from elsewhere and the shop incurred a charge to build a new wheel, so there is cost there that probably won't have been incurred if the manufacturer had the part in and was able to provide the new one.

Although you are out of pocket, you were up and riding sooner, so as much as it would annoy me, I'd take it on the chin.

Also just spotted that you are talking $ and not £ so even less expense and less in your pocket at the end of it all (going by current exchange rate).

Are you in America as all your costs are in dollars? Presumably the rules are different there.

Many manufacturers have small print too that states the warranty is limited to 1 year on parts and the frame is x years. Some brands even go as far as to say "this 3inch section of the frame is warrantied for 3months, this bit over here is 5.5 months".

I agree it's a bit rubbish that you had to go and find your own replacement part and then pay for it and then pay labour. I don't know why the shop didnt offer you a new rear wheel, seems like the least faffage interms of labour and time.

Probably one of those things I'd just take on the chin and move forward from, at the end of the day you didn't sit there for months waiting for an out of stock part. You got a better(?) hub built into your bike. You friendly LBS still likes you.

You said the labour for the rebuild was waived and then they've backtracked on that agreement and charged you $100 once your claim was successful
Is that the bit you're peeved about?

Remember, you've upgraded your wheel in the process so you're not really $400 down

Have you seen this, might help - seems DT are acknowledging a problem with stripping drive rings...
link to article on Road CC site

Dt swiss ratchet exp problems

A) I'm surprised that some folk think 2 years is reasonable life expectancy for a hub. Bearings yes, the hub itself, no.

B) I reckon the shop has a legal responsibility for 12 months. After that it is down to the manufacturer of the bike.

C) Despite B, I'd expect the shop to try to help out, but it's likely to be your responsibility to deal with the manufacturers warranty department..

D) It was your choice to buy a £300 hub. There's no way that comes down to the shop or the bike manufacturer and no reason that the shop should lose out.

They haven't backtracked on the labour charge - it was $100 for the materials, which they have taken off the store credit he now has...so might not have actually paid the $100 so that is still in his pocket as well...

Dick, I've snipped a couple of bits from the op, looks like they backtracked on the waived labour fee to me

Original shop charged me for new spokes/nipples/rim tape (~$100) but the labour was waived.

$190 credit for broken freehub, of which the shop have applied $100 against the wheel re-build labour

Budget hub, sounds like you replaced it with a premium hub. Enjoy it.

Same happened to me with SantaCruz / Novatech. Just bought another wheel altogether and stuck it on, much cheaper. I classed the part as a semi disposable.

Frame / forks / shocks etc is what I want the good warranty on.

Interesting... the only freehub I've ever had fail was a DT Swiss one. Yet DT Swiss wheels are constantly recommended on here.

Warranty claim on a failed freehub after 18months? fair play for getting the shop and manufacturer to 'engage' (SWIDT?!). the fact that the Manufacturer cant supply a replacement in the current global situation is just poor circumstance unfortunately.

Should/could the shop or Manuf do more to get you riding again? maybe, but again parts supply will dictate what they can do to a certain extent.

The fact you've bought another (expensive?) hub and had your wheel built in the meantime is purely your decision and responsibility, nothing to do with the warranty.

I think the only unreasonable aspect of this is the fact the LBS have taken part of the credit note as payment against the labor. Did they discuss that with you? If not, that a fair bit of a cheek, nothing to do with them how you spend the credit note.

I would probably have taken the opportunity to upgrade my wheel(s) at my own cost, and just waited for the warranty replacement hub to come in, then sold the original wheels.

That said, I understand your frustration with the "free" labour now being charged - had there been a falling out with the shop? Have you pointed out that it feels unfair from your POV?

I'm not seeing the $100 as labour, it reads that the parts they supplied to build the new wheel cost $100 and that is what they deducted from the credit note...so the parts were paid for but the labour wasn't. Also, the OP didn't have to pay $100 for the parts as it was removed from a credit note.

Both bikes are XL sized so built for larger/more powerful riders

Bobbins. Its just a bigger frame, they don't spec different parts on different sizes of bike. Where would you expect them to "cheap out" on the specification, or do you think XL bikes should only be available in 10k builds because biffers?

Would I be upset? No. You bought a $300 hub, that's neither the manufacturer or the shop's problem.
It needed new spokes and nipples which suggests a noticeably different hub to the one which was being replaced, neither of those things would be needed under warranty replacement so the need for them is [down to] your choice.
You got it built into a wheel including spokes and nipples for $10 in practice.

You could have waited for a replacement, you chose not to.

You could have bought your hub from the shop doing the warranty work, you chose not to.

You could have bought a new wheel, a cheaper hub etc etc, all of which may or may not have seen you out of pocket by the end of the process.

As it is you chose the more expensive option with least value to the people who you're expecting to do the work for you.

Also did they specifically say the were waiving the build cost or did they say they weren't charging you for the build which is to say they'll charge it to the manufacturer via warranty?

Are you in America as all your costs are in dollars? Presumably the rules are different there.

Its the EXACT wording of the warranty that matters.
I doubt it say's go find a new hub and we'll pay to rebuild a wheel.

Would I be happy? No .... but from experience a lot of warranty on bike stuff is probably not worth the electronic paper its written on if your riding has a value to you.

I'm amazed there are people on here replying that think stripped drive ring threads on a hub with known issues well within the warranty period is an acceptable wear and tear item to just eat the cost of and move on. Unless the guy is like 250lbs and riding a battery bike or something?

It’s sad but if you ride enough you know what to treat as disposable.

Crap hubs are in that bracket for me. I don’t say give them a free ride. Just wait for replacement and sell or keep for spare or you will be in same situation in the near future.

When it comes to DT Swiss if it’s not a 350, 240 or comparable I would ignore the brand name, it’s just like any other.

When making warranty / replacement decisions it’s got to be agreed by all parties to be valid. Can’t just go and buy any premium hub and expect the
original co to pay for it.

I’ll never understand how the bike industry has conditioned us as consumers to treat bike shops totally differently to any other retailer. If your telly broke you’d call John Lewis and they’d sort it out – if the guy in the shop started talking to you about “I’ll see what Samsung can do blah blah” then you’d say “WTF I don’t work here! Sort my telly out and call me when it’s sorted”

But a telly and a bike don't really compare do they. A telly just sits there working or not working. If a telly is not working repair is probably not an option. There is no wear and tear on a telly. You can't fail to maintain a telly. Telly shops aren't empty og tellies due to huge demand. You can't use a telly outside it's intended usage

I'm not really sure how I feel about this...

OP quotes in dollars so not in the UK??

Anyway, the way I see it, there's 2 elements to the story.

Hub failed, that's shit. really your fall back should be the the shop "the bike you sold me has failed far too quickly to be acceptable, please fix it" ALA the John Lewis approach. Which it sounds like they weren't too keen to doing without sending back to DT / Dist first, okay not great, but hardly unique when it comes to bikes and bike shops. DT Swiss / Disti accepted your claim and I assume would have authorised a repair / wheel replacement, reasonable.

2nd element, OP buys a better hub, from a different shop. The shop fits it, charges for the parts and "waives" the labour, probably in compensation for the hub failing on the bike they sold you. That's all pretty reasonable, if they don't have a hub.

The only unreasonable things I see in this tale 1) changing their mind on the waived labour fees once DT paid up 2) Shop Credit, meaning of the money DT sent the shop (assuming they sent them money) they get to keep some of it via their margin on goods.

So, if I have it right The LSB make a little margin on the spokes, and nipples, plus $100 labour charge for fitting in, and then a little margin on the $90

A bit more info for context:
(1) The bike I bought specifically for its excellent warranty as it's carbon fibre. The manufacturers warranty has some details on its website about the frame warranty but is vague about who covers parts so there is no "fine print" to check.
(2) DT Swiss do not include any warranty information in their website at all. In fact, they don't even mention the 370 hub on their website so I assume it's OEM only.
Either way, I called the distributor who confirmed it would have a two year warranty as no paperwork supplied with bike.
(3) I don't know whether the shop sent the old hub back to the distributer or whether it was discussed over the phone/email but either way, the warranty is being honoured (so it seems like they aren't considering it fair wear and tear)
(4) The shop tried to source a replacement hub and/or wheel for me but couldn't get one. I checked with them before I bought the replacement hub myself and I checked they would be happy to do the rebuild. They suggested themselves to avoid the 370 and go for the 350. If that had been possible, I would have gladly paid whatever the price difference was, but, you know...shortages etc! If anyway can find a 370 for sale in a retail outlet I'd be interested to know what the price actually is but as I suspect it's OEM only, not sure that's going to happen.
(5) The hub I bought was approximately the same price as a 350 (it's not like I splurged on something super fancy)
(6) If the distributer had been able to supply a 370 hub in a reasonable period of time (or at least give me some indication of potential timelines) or offered me an upgrade to a better hub (+ some cash to them), then I wouldn't have bought another hub but I'm not going to sacrifice multiple months downtime (I only have one mountain bike and no spare wheels - what an amateur!)
(7) The bike is an heavily built Enduro bike so speccing a shite freehub is just stupidity of the highest order but I can't actually blame DT Swiss for that...
And finally...
When I picked up the built up wheel from the shop (which turned it around in two business days, to their credit), I was told the labour was "comped". That was about three weeks ago but I only found out about the result about the warranty claim a couple of days ago. Seems they forget to call me to let me know the result which I'll cut them some slack about as they are really busy. But then I find they "absorbed" some of the credit I was due.

By the way, no way was I expecting NOT to be out-of-pocket somewhat.

In normal times, I'd HOPE I would have just been supplied with a new rear wheel by the shop so no labour/spokes/nipples cost would have occurred and DT Swiss/distributer would take the financial hit (and so they should be for supplying shite product).

In this instance, I wasn't expecting the shop/distributer/bike manufacturer so refund me the cost of the hub I chose but if the retail price of a 370 is $190, I'd at least expect that full value back as cash, not a partial credit.

AIBU??

At 18 months old and are you not UK based as you gave the cost in $ you are completely reliant on the manufacturers good will and IMO they have no need to reimburse you for the hub you bought.

I’m amazed there are people on here replying that think stripped drive ring threads on a hub with known issues well within the warranty period is an acceptable wear and tear item to just eat the cost of and move on. Unless the guy is like 250lbs and riding a battery bike or something?

Not fit for purpose, like the majority of the crap the manufacturers churn out.
Its failed because its either been poorly designed, poorly made or poorly assembled. No amount of servicing is going to prolong the life of a drive ring, if it was pawl springs snapping or bearing failing, then yes, lack of maintenance could be cited.

Bobbins. Its just a bigger frame, they don’t spec different parts on different sizes of bike. Where would you expect them to “cheap out” on the specification, or do you think XL bikes should only be available in 10k builds because biffers?

The bikes have a weight limit, the median power output of the person at the max weight limit is known and should be factored in when durability testing of the components, but alas this is the bike industry, where durability testing involves chucking it at some pros for a bit and plays second fiddle to the marketing team.

At 18 months old and are you not UK based as you gave the cost in $ you are completely reliant on the manufacturers good will and IMO they have no need to reimburse you for the hub you bought.

You missed the point there completely 😃

Yes, I'm in Canada so I'm not quoting Sales of Goods Act or any crap like that to the shop 😉
And the bike doesn't (AFAIK) have a weight limit, and as I "only" weight 195lb, Id probably be under the limit anyway. And it's not an eBike either.

Honestly it sounds like everyone's acted pretty reasonably. Shop told you they can't do anything now, but gave you goodwill on the labour to get you going (charged you for materials) and then reclaimed it from the manufacturer (You wouldn't expect them to work for free). It was your call (and a good call at that) to drop $300 on a new hub, and at that price I guess it's a snazzy one compared to the one that failed on you.

So you spent $400 but have $90 in credit against that - so really you've only "spent" $310 - I'd look at that as being "You got the wheel built onto the hub that you wanted for $10" = bargain. Obviously you have to apply a degree of man-maths to arrive at that figure. At least you're riding!

I'm amazed you blew a drive ring thread out before you broke any pawls!
The drive ring is put in a situation of tightening torque under load, so you must be putting out the watts to strip it. big watts over 20degree engagement = impact driver I guess. Or massively uneven spoke tension to ovalize the threaded shell?
Either way 370's can go forever so it's not necessarily an inherent design flaw

IIRC you're in Vancouver.
Canadas consumer rights laws are quite poor compared to the uk. Outside 30days, the retailer has no obligation, its all with the manufacturer and even then as an agent, the retailer can charge you a processing fee to handle a warranty claim. Your bike warranty also likely states that they do not cover labour to replace replacement parts.
You may wish to look up expressed warranty vs implied warranty. This is the only recourse you have.
Implied warranty is the reasonable time that products must be fit for the purposes for which they are sold.
However, in your case, DT swiss would probably have got a hub out to you pretty quickly, but as the shop aren't obligated to resolve your manufacturer issue, did they reach out to anyone beyond the bike manufacturer? OGC down on marine drive/main are the Canadian DT distributer and DT USA a 2 day UPS delivery away.
As you still have the broken 370, I would reach out to DT swiss directly and I'm positive they will offer you a solution. Perhaps you can sell whatever solution to recover $.
As far as being out of pocket, the shop claiming back the $100 labor is disappointing and I would raise his with them but the other hub purchase was your choice albeit you weren't provided an alternative by your shop. 100 labor to build a wheel is also above Squamish shop rates.
If the manufacturer could have supplied a replacement hub, it would have been a hub. rim/spokes/nips/labour etc wouldn't have been provided for, that would be an elective replacement at your cost.

You’re in Vancouver!? Meh - it’s nothing compared to Todmorden! It’s pronounced Todmudden btw (well it is by me anyway!)...😀

@BearBack
Seems like getting a hub from OGC was never gonna happen. Presumably they're currently out of stock but if they did, I would have quite gladly sold it on to recoup some costs.
As it happens, I don't have the bust hub anymore - not sure what the shop did with it.

I've read internet stories of 370's failing as the ratchet (or ring? Dunno, I'm not a mechanic and haven't disassembled one...) is made of steel so is a lot harder than the soft Alu hub body so can get over-torqued and strip the thread in the hub, meaning, to all intents and purposes, that a new hub is required.
I guess that the old internals could be put inside a new hub body but that would still require a wheel re-build. I've even read of someone glueing the ratchet into the hub body to stop it turning...

Anyway, it's all academic now as the warranty has been sorted and I didn't lose too many days riding.

Not quite like the warranty experience I've had with Hope hubs in the past when I lived in the UK though...

Have to say, never seen a freehub fail on a DT that's written off the hub, the 370 is ratchet and pawl, so basically the same as Hope and the rest, and the drive on the hub is removable as well, hell i think you can even buy internals to turn a 370 into a 350 now, so not sure how it's been written off unless cracket, but that would be hub, not freehub?

Back to the original bit though, reality is that warranty always seems to be hard work with bikes, and any discussion about 'fit for purpose' comes down to quality rather than design, so hard to prove on an item without any real provenance to assess, guessing that at this point it's been marked as complete by the shop, and thus by the OEM, so not sure what you would do now that could push this more than the standard 'i'm not happy with this outcome' to your shop and see what happens?

the 370's are crap, mine did exactly the same and stripped the threads in the hub body at just under 2 years old, took that as time to upgrade wheels as i had always planned and then forgot to try warrentying the hub. and i'm not exactly heavy or putting out a lot of power.

Honestly it sounds like everyone’s acted pretty reasonably. Shop told you they can’t do anything now, but gave you goodwill on the labour to get you going (charged you for materials) and then reclaimed it from the manufacturer (You wouldn’t expect them to work for free).

I don't know. I think if the shop phrased it that way up front, then sure - but changing the terms after they said they'd waive the labour costs isn't on imo. $100 seems a little steep too.

I don't think I'd be happy with shop credit either.

If I am understanding correctly the shop have been credited $190 for the cost of the hub and chose to only pass on $90 to you and kept $100 for themselves?

That seems a bit off to me!

They should have charged you labor to start with or waived it entirely, this would be what I would have done (waived the labor entirely) but they have taken that out of your pocket anyway after saying they wouldn't no?

Bike shop employee in Canada for reference.

Seems reasonable.

You didn't need to spend 300 on a hub and that meant it was a new build so the warranty won't cover those costs.

The warranty would be the original replacement parts + associated labour costs.