Watching Pogačar's performance on yesterday's stage, particularly in the final KM, made me think something's not quite right.
I know he's good, and not meaning to detract anything from him, but the way he just sat and span up the climb while Carapaz was clearly going very deep, and then dropping him like a stone in the final 200m made me uneasy.
Am I wrong to view his performance this tour with some scepticism?
Yes, no, maybe?
Maybe it's the effect of the overall drop in GC challenge from week 1. He just hasn't been pushed as hard as we would expect by this point in the tour so he is better able to defend. (defend + ! 😉 )
It's your right to do so, but hopefully your doubts are informed by a healthy knowledge of the current road racing scene - and you realise that you are seeing the strongest GC rider in the world competing in a heavily depleted field.
I assume you expend loads more energy trying to attack and distance other riders the way Carapaz did towards the end, rather than sitting and spinning like Poj did. I'd imagine thats why Carapaz died off at the end.
There will always be question marks over how cyclists manage races like the TDF though. Fact is some form of doping/sustance taking has always been there, so the questions will always be there....
I'd like to think they are all doing it within the rules these days, but even then you get massive grey areas.
I think given the sport's history it's not hard to have doubts.
I know he’s good, and not meaning to detract anything from him, but the way he just sat and span up the climb while Carapaz was clearly going very deep, and then dropping him like a stone in the final 200m made me uneasy.
He was actually smiling most of the way up the climb as Carapaz was gurning like he was on fire!
There is also the fact he is only 22 and supposedly not yet at his physical peak for an endurance athlete.
Who knows? A heavily depleted field is also emphasising how good he is though.
and you realise that you are seeing the strongest GC rider in the world who's not really had to to much to this point so is still fairly 'fresh' competing in a heavily depleted field.
Carapaz was gurning like he was on fire!
But it was a massive bluff, he was trying to look weak
Am I wrong to view his performance this tour with some scepticism?
Nope, I'm the same, I look at any performance like his yesterday and start stroking my chin. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I get that he's effectively out on his own against fewer properly top ranked riders, but still...It was 'very' impressive
I’m the same, I look at any performance like his yesterday and start stroking my chin. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I get that he’s effectively out on his own against fewer properly top ranked riders, but still…It was ‘very’ impressive
This is also how I viewed his performance :o)
I don't think you can read too much into a riders facial expression. Some riders just look relaxed even when they are on the limit.
It's hard to say that whether he is clean or not but he is up against 2nd string GC riders who are making him look really good.
And let's not forget that he didn't ride away from them, when he and Jumbo Visma Fella Who's Name Escapes Me tried to drop Carapaz a couple of times they couldn't, and they all pretty much crossed the line together. SO it's not like he was another level from them.
I too have a fair bit of cynicism about him, no bad days, making good GC riders look foolish. "Not normal".
Lance's podcast used the phrase "they got the science right on that team".
Prior to making up your mind it would be interesting to look at his times up these climbs in the context of other previous recent performances - not just against those he is currently racing.
As I understand it his times up some of the key climbs have not been hugely faster than previous years etc.
I did see an article discussing this somewhere with examples - I will try and find it.
His TT performance was impressive.
I am inclined to believe he is clean - he is tested to the max and wasn't even born when the dark days of doping were going on so it seems unfair to be so cynical.
no bad days
He hasn't needed any, the others have had them. He's only had two particularly 'good' days - the TT and yesterday, the rest he's just pretty much just ticked along as that's all he's had to do. And don't forget he got showed his arse on Ventoux by Jumbo Visma Fella
he's got data going to the car and they are telling him what to do; power, cadence, HR. they are machines, and the others broke before him.
like someone said, the GC contenders arent really there, so he's looking good.
I almost hope he is doping because if he's not then the GC is going to be boring as **** for the foreseeable future.
He's actually doing this without an imposing team by his side for most of it.
Froome, G, etc all had a really strong team basically managing everything for them, not this guy.
The race to the finish was kind of exciting but it was also very obvious what the outcome would be.
It's all very Meh
His similarity to the American rider has been mentioned in the ITV tdf podcast…
He’s only had two particularly ‘good’ days
wasn't stage 8 a good day then?
It would be good to see him up against a fresh Bernal and Roglic etc.
He was pretty wrecked after the stage yesterday by the looks of things.
I still am a bit dubious but to a certain extent he's got lucky this tour and yesterday showed he's not heads and shoulders above the others all the time.
You are right to be sceptical and it's not unreasonable given recent allegations around doping and Slovenian athletes/Operation Aderlass/Giuseppe Saronni. DYOR etc..
However,
you are seeing the strongest GC rider in the world competing in a heavily depleted field
This^. He's focussed on the TdF as his main goal of the season not the Olympics (although he'll go well there of course) whilst his rivals have fallen by the wayside - and the 5 min plus gap shows that. This year feels like a changing of the guard though. Pog, Vinegarstrokes, Kuss, O'Connor, Gaudu look like the future contenders not G, Pinot, Woods or Carapaz. We really need Roglic and Bernal to turn up next year for a proper scrap.
His GC performance doesn't make me feel as uncomfortable. I know the other GC contenders aren't as strong this year, but it's his 1 on 1 demolition of some of the best climbers in the world (i.e. Carapaz et al) which feel harder to accept.
I honestly hope he's clean and is just one of the best all rounders in recent years. Assuming that's the case it does feel like a definite changing of the guard in terms of Grand Tour racing.
They said post race that they knew Carapaz was bluffing yesterday. He only put that face on when the cameras were on him. That was confirmed when he then attacked even if ultimately unsuccessful.
As others have said, he has not really had the competition this year due to so many favourites having crashes and injuries. He took the time on the stage to Tignes and has maintained it ever since. He looked vulnerable on Mont Ventoux but got away with it.
Yesterday he was clearly on the limit at the end. As ever, to win the TDF you have to not have a bad day and he hasn't yet whilst pretty much everyone else has.
It's a shame when such a good ride gets drawn into doubt within hours. Unfortunately Lance Armstrong left such a long lasting impression of taking off dancing on the pedals whilst going up a mountain in yellow, that anybody else doing it now looks almost immediately suspicious.
Yesterdays stage had that exact look and Pogacar even had a similar stance and body position so people will mention the D word.
I really can't imagine (and hope) that any rider or team is doping to previous levels although I would expect all the main teams to be pushing the boundaries and rules with what they can do under their interpretation of the rules. After all, they are at the pinnacle of the sport and the way to maximise gains is tweaking the engine to be the best and most efficient etc.
The question came up on one of the ITV highlights show and they let Matt Rendell, who is a cycling journalist I’d say I trust, interview someone from a university in the States who uses Team UAE as a source of data for research. They made it clear that they don’t care if the team wins or loses, they’re just there to study the riders and Pogacar has a lot of genetic advantages (exceptional ability to use glucose and a few other things) that mean he’s naturally excellent. They also pointed out that the rest of this year’s field isn’t great which is making Pogacar look better.
I think it was the highlights for Stage 13 or 14 (my computer isn’t loading fast enough at the moment for me to check). For now it has me convinced.
No unfortunately I don't think you are wrong to have your doubts. For me it was less his performance yesterday than a combination of the final TT last year, the one this year and his performance on the Romme/Colombiere stage (not even LA managed to put that sort of time into his rivals on a single stage). When you add into the mix the management of UAE and recent issues in Slovenian cycling, doubts are sadly inevitable.
The other team over whom I have doubts are Bahrain Victorious (Mark Padun, Sonny Colbrelli and Damiano Caruso have all produced startling performances this year). And indeed I see that the French police have just raided the BV hotel.
I too have a fair bit of cynicism about him, no bad days, making good GC riders look foolish. “Not normal”.
But the rest of the GC riders really aren't what you'd expect to be challenging for the win are they? Two of the best 3 GT winners aren't there (Bernal and Roglic) and the rest of the top 10 are perennial GC make weights at best, with the exception of Carapaz and his Giro win, which lets be honest was down to Roglic crashing.
Vingegaard or Vingegogo as Kelly calls him has won naff all and people don't seem to be casting as much suspicion over him as they are of Pogacar, his best GC result is 46th in the 2020 Vuelta.
David Gaudu has a best finish of 13th in the 2018 TdF and 8th in the 202 Vuelta.
Ben O'Connor 20th in the 2020 Giro.
Wilco Kelderman is pretty much the best of the rest.
So you see where I'm going with this, he's just better. I'd ignore the old adage of he's too young to peak at endurance sports, things are changing, people know a whole load more about training and most importantly recovery than they did 10 or 15 years ago, it's not all about go and ride 200km every day and then race GT's anymore.
As for Carapaz' face of pain, its well documented after yesterday that it was all bluffing and that Pogacar was properly pissed off with his unwillingness to do a turn, hence the attack at the end by Pog. Some riders look like they hate every minute, some the opposite, very few top riders will ever actually display how they're feeling - why give the game away?
Would I be amazed if any current CG contender tested positive? No. Do I think Sky were all they said they were? Very hard not to be cynical there, too murky. But I don't think Pogacar looks dodgy, not simply by being strongest overall at the moment and not from the way he's riding.
His similarity to the American rider has been mentioned in the ITV tdf podcast…
He's nothing like imho. As above, some other riders who really would be testing him or in yellow right now aren't there - not to take anything away from what Pogacar's doing. He's there while others have crashed out, to finish first, first you have to finish etc.
We all probably hope riders are clean/cleaner these days.
But it does not seem logical for anyone to consistently beat the rest (some of whom will be cheating) by a large amount.
Much more likely that the leader will not lead all the time and only do so by a small amount - if everyone was clean.
Any outlier must be looked at with suspicion, that's logical.
We really need Roglic and Bernal to turn up next year for a proper scrap.
This is the most-important thing. And also for them to stay on their sodding bikes when they get there.
Obviously there's a lot more to the TdF than just the GC win, but despite knowing that I've still not found myself that engaged by the race this year.
He’s nothing like imho. As above, some other riders who really would be testing him or in yellow right now aren’t there – not to take anything away from what Pogacar’s doing. He’s there while others have crashed out, to finish first, first you have to finish etc.
It's very similar to when Nibali won back in 2014, everyone else (Froome & Contador) who could win GC crashed out or hurt them selves good style and I distinctly remember the commentary team saying that he knew he could do, lets say for arguments sake, 6W/kg for sustained efforts in the mountains and that no one else in the top 10 could, so all he had to do was cover attacks and maintain his lead safe in the knowledge that if he stayed on the bike he'd win.
I’d ignore the old adage of he’s too young to peak at endurance sports, things are changing, people know a whole load more about training and most importantly recovery than they did 10 or 15 years ago, it’s not all about go and ride 200km every day and then race GT’s anymore.
Interesting point. Common wisdom / old wives's tales say your endurance gets better as you get into your 30s, late 30s even, but I've always wondered about that. I think it's a rider's experience and confidence, the ability to pace well, maturity as a rider if you like that improves. Seems odd to suggest the body physically recovers better with age.
Conditioning can certainly help with adaptation to training or hard days and that seems to assist or go with improved recovery but again, I think (ime, not much of it) it's about learning how to recover and how you react, not a natural improvement that is proportional to age. So with sod all understanding of physiology to back me up I'd be tempted to think you're right, good training can produce excellent endurance riders early in their career? (this does sound a bit like the 'Lance lost the weight after his treatment but kept the power' cod sports science, I realise..)
There will always be doubt in cycling
Don't forget he is a little lucky. The crashes had big impact. Also the early TT suited him. Also the previously dominant ineos are in decline/shuffling.
I don't think his age is unusual in recent times, see vinegaard, or Bernal for that matter
But there is always a doubt, blurred lines, etc
But it does not seem logical for anyone to consistently beat the rest (some of whom will be cheating) by a large amount.
Much more likely that the leader will not lead all the time and only do so by a small amount – if everyone was clean.
Any outlier must be looked at with suspicion, that’s logical.
Yeah I tend to see it that way, though being on great form over the TdF perhaps shouldn't raise too many suspicions - it's a window of form that a winning rider may have achieved better than others that year. That plus luck and tactical nous. Having said that Lance used to go on about only focusing on the Tour. There's always examples to support the cynical view and that's unfortunately road racing's history.
he is tested to the max
As was Lance.
Whatever they are doing (and I dare say they are doing something) it’s different to the days of EPO and blood transfusions and seems to make for more exciting racing.
His good genetics was mentioned earlier. Could he be the first example of a bit of manipulation in that area ? No idea but I think some people were claiming that would be the next big thing a while back.
As was Lance.
And this is the worst part of Armstrong's legacy for me.
That commenters can just say "but Lance", without offering a contextualised understanding of the current field.
I notice someone's even cited LA himself as putting out a coded message about Pog. That's some brass neck.
Lance was quite a long time ago...
Pogacar has a lot of genetic advantages (exceptional ability to use glucose
Will look up that interview too, but does this mean he needs to fuel frequently (rather than enhanced glycogen storage?), does he eat a lot. I do on long rides but then I’m a bit chubby and almost 50 👍
So with sod all understanding of physiology to back me up I’d be tempted to think you’re right, good training can produce excellent endurance riders early in their career?
Well if you look at it on a slightly more amateur level, the 2018 & 2019 European 24hr solo champ was in his early 20's.
Humans are evolving, just look at the size of teenagers now a days, they're bigger and stronger than the same lads 30 years ago, so it kind of makes sense that it'll happen in sport too.
then dropping him like a stone in the final 200m
More like the last 50m, by a few seconds.
Presumably you feel the same about Carapaz and Vingegaard?
Vingegogo as Kelly calls him
Largely because that's how it's pronounced.
his best GC result is 46th in the 2020 Vuelta.
His best GC result in the only other Grand Tour he has competed in - as a domestique. Take a look at the rest of his palmares.
I seem to recall someone interviewing Pog's trainer, who said he his ability to recover from big efforts was off-the-charts.
That could be EPO of course, or maybe a naturally high haematocrit (or whatever, I'm not a physiologist either)?
I doubt most athletic performance I see. Doesn't stop me enjoying the show.
Will look up that interview too, but does this mean he needs to fuel frequently (rather than enhanced glycogen storage?), does he eat a lot. I do on long rides but then I’m a bit chubby and almost 50 👍
Probably more likely that he burns it more efficiently than others, less waste. A bit like Constantine Louloudis the Oxford & Olympic rower, he's not very big for a rower (6'3" and 93Kg) but has a stupidly high lactate threshold and at the time the highest VO2 max on the team, so for his size he could perform alongside the massive guys in the boat, but for a longer period of time - essentially he was just a more efficient human being.
Humans are evolving, just look at the size of teenagers now a days
Yes they are, but the size of kids now is down to nutrition and medical care that's pretty much as good as gets for most folk that is more widely available than ever before.
His best GC result in the only other Grand Tour he has competed in – as a domestique. Take a look at the rest of his palmares.
It's not exactly dazzling 51st in the '21 Dauphine
Smells bad to me, I lost interest in the GC
I seem to recall someone interviewing Pog’s trainer, who said he his ability to recover from big efforts was off-the-charts.
https://www.itv.com/itvcycling/articles/tadej-pogacars-coach-on-the-science-of-success
This is the interview that @munrobiker and @chakaping mentioned. It is interesting to watch.
Slightly off topic but I have a scene in my head of the local Gendarme's sitting around the station watching the TdF on telly and seeing Colbrelli duking it out (again) with the climbers in the high mountains and one of them saying 'Right, he's gone too far now lads, lets give BV a bit of a shake'.
Yes they are, but the size of kids now is down to nutrition and medical care
So take better nutrition, medical care, training knowledge etc and apply them to someone who seems to be a genetically gifted person in the first place and bingo!
I think he's clean. I think he's too young to dope. Why would a young rider dope until he's had time to fail?
I'm sure I read once about a youth talent spotter watching a race, he turned up late and said to a colleague. Why don't they pull that lad out, he's about to get lapped again. His colleague replied, that pog who I've come to see, he's about to lap the entire field again! He's special, very special. He was right (Im sure it was pog but might be wrong)
However, they do trust what they are given to eat and drink and don't question anything the team does! Do I trust the teams who are chasing success and trying to keep their jobs? But that's just me being cynical with nothing to back it up!
Valverde on the other hand never ceases to amaze me and with his history, the era he came from and his age defying performances I always ask how on earth he keeps doing it?
When I saw the first mountain stage attack it was just like watching someone in a Phonak jersey riding up the Joux Plan. Cycling has got far too much dodgy history to take anything at face value.
It's also when you wait for the ‘once in a generation talent’ to emerge and five or six come along in the space of two years. What some of the younger riders are doing particularly when they are excelling at wildly different disciplines in successive days doesn’t seem possible.
So
https://www.itv.com/itvcycling/articles/ tadej-pogacars-coach-on-the-science-of-success
is not an impartial
someone from a university in the States who uses Team UAE as a source of data for research. They made it clear that they don’t care if the team wins or loses, they’re just there to study the riders and Pogacar
really.
Suspect they're racing within the rules these days, and using nutrition tuning etc to much greater benefit. I think they'd have been found out.
And let's face it, they've been asking the same veiled question about anyone performing in the mountains in the last few years. Froome was subjected to the same when he was dominating 6 years ago and Sky released his powermeter data
there is lots of data out there on power outputs etc that suggests that these top riders have the ability to put down huge power for longer periods. Yesterday three guys finished within seconds of each other - so are they all doping then? But that likely small percentage advantage that Pogacar has pays off on these steep finishes.
Mathieu van der Poel's power numbers are also in the same region as Pogacar, and had he stayed for the duration i suspect he's be giving Pog a bit of competition
And Pogacar was doing this last TdF as well remember:
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/tour-de-france-power-analysis-tadej-pogacars-record-breaking-ascent-of-the-col-de-peyresourde/
Theyre built ddifferent to us:
https://cyclingtips.com/2021/07/van-der-poels-coach-explains-what-makes-him-different-from-the-rest-of-us/
more power comparisons from the UAE tour:
https://www.velonews.com/training/power-analysis-crosswinds-time-trials-and-mountains-at-the-2021-uae-tour/
can we mention Cav's spectacular return to form yet? 🙂
Lance’s podcast used the phrase “they got the science right on that team”.
Raises eyebrow….
I'd like to think pro cycling is clean now, but then you see the various investigations like aderlass and the whole Sky dodgy parcel thing, and then this, and it's clear that things are far from squeaky clean.
Seeing Pogacar soar into the lead on GC without looking like he's even trying - possibly even smiling as he climbs a 12% climb very quickly after 2.5 weeks in the saddle - well, something just doesn't sit right with me.
can we mention Cav’s spectacular return to form yet?
I’ve considered this too.
IMHO Cav has had a number of fairly quiet yrs re. training recovery from injury & illness, this may have been beneficial in that he’s fairly well rested. Also his racing acumen & hunger are, bluntly, second to none. He also has the best lead out train on the Tour.
Is it even possible to dope at any level now? He looks as if he could win many tours at the moment.
can we mention Cav’s spectacular return to form yet? 🙂
Why don't you ask Cav himself if he's had to get on the gear?
I'm sure he'd take it well.
Is it even possible to dope at any level now
Testing can only be for what's known I'd have thought. If there's a new "supplement" that doesn't get picked up by current tests/cause anomalous readings then it'd go under the radar.
And folks have had their eye on Vingegaard for a while:
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-vingegaard-wears-tag-of-challenger-lightly-ahead-of-andorra-test/
Is it even possible to dope at any level now?
Yes of course it is. I think you'd have to be naïve or optimistic to think that it's a clean sport.
can we mention Cav’s spectacular return to form yet? 🙂
Why don’t you ask Cav himself if he’s had to get on the gear?
I’m sure he’d take it well.
i think i'm more interested in how popular opinion would be treating it if he wasn't um, how can i put this, one of ours...
🙂
At least Cav looks knackered after every stage.
I think he’s clean. I think he’s too young to dope. Why would a young rider dope until he’s had time to fail?
Pog aside I think that's rather naive, people don't dope to avoid failure, they do it to succeed. Same as cheating in exams etc. For pro sports the need to produce on a specific day is huge, a youngster trying to break into the sport simply can't afford not to be good on the day the scout turns up, be that football or cycling. They have to be exceptional to get the scout coming to look at them in the first instance and they need to be driven to succeed. To achieve what Pog, bernal, pidcock et al have requires you to put your entire life outside cycling on hold and even as an adult, that's a huge sacrifice in the hope of a tiny chance at a pay off.
At the pointy untested end of youth sport with a view to going pro or ending up oran office job? I'd expect the issue of banned substances to be endemic to be honest.
It's the first result on Google so admittedly it's not a directly comparable thing but even then.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/50785122.amp
Has this been done yet?
Coupled with Pog's alleged natural ability to recover that's a pretty potent mix. Currently completely legal. I've also noticed Blood Glucose monitors being used in endurance sports. Nothing wrong with that as far as I can see.
Seeing Pogacar soar into the lead on GC without looking like he’s even trying
This is the point I've been trying to make - he's not soared into the lead, the massive lead he's got is mostly down to the oppositions' shit luck in the first week, which was just carnage, and their shit tactics all through the race, so he's not had to try that hard to defend the lead he has. And he was clearly repeatedly trying to drop the other two yesterday, and couldn't, and he only just won the stage. And he was dropped on Ventoux. The time gap he has overstates the difference between him and the others.
Slightly off topic but I have a scene in my head of the local Gendarme’s sitting around the station watching the TdF on telly and seeing Colbrelli duking it out (again) with the climbers in the high mountains and one of them saying ‘Right, he’s gone too far now lads, lets give BV a bit of a shake’.
Police raid Bahrain Victorious hotel at Tour de France
Testing can only be for what’s known I’d have thought. If there’s a new “supplement” that doesn’t get picked up by current tests/cause anomalous readings then it’d go under the radar.
This is technically very possible, on the one hand, because as you say testers can only look for what is known and it's easy for a good chemist to outwit an LC-MS and its operative. But on the other it seems really unlikely (IMHO) outside of large state-sponsored doping programs.
Taking a drug invented and synthesised by a back-street chemist is pretty wild - I mean doping with known PEDs has its dangers but take a step back and it's not THAT risky, not compared to being a one-person clinical trial for Dave the (bad) chemist.
It's happened, though - the BALCO affair in the US was one guy doing exactly this, taking a known synthetic steroid and making a simple modification (tetrahydrogestrinone) - Marion Jones won 3 gold medals on the THG. The drug was identified via the actions of a whistleblower, not an analytical chemist, which is I guess inevitable - you can't keep an invisible drug like that secret for too long.
For me, the fundamental issue is whether we choose to believe after so many years of it being repeatedly proven that our faith in riders being clean was utterly misplaced. As a sport, road cycling continues to allow proven dopers to be associated with the sport. David Millar gets a job as a commentator as does Sean Kelly. Both returned positive tests in their careers and received bans. Jonathan Vaughters as founder and CEO of EF Education admitted to using PEDs yet still has a seat at the table. If you compile a list of riders who have performed at the highest level of cycling over the years but who have been subsequently exposed for using PEDs, it is a pretty long list.
I would love to believe that riders are clean but I am afraid that history and experience suggest otherwise. I can still enjoy the spectacle but won't feign surprise if it is subsequently proven that the biggest performances were chemically enhanced. Sadly, doping and professional cycling go hand in hand.
When it comes to blowing the whistle, there is a lack of appetite to properly tackle the issues or even to listen. Nicole Cooke delivered a damning indictment on British Cycling and Team Sky in her written and oral submissions to the Parliamentary Select Committee in 2017 and yet one wonders has anything actually changed? She performed and succeeded at the very highest level and has been a very vocal critic of the doping and sexist culture in cycling yet her voice has been the one to have been ignored.
So to answer your question, no you're not wrong to doubt.
Coupled with Pog’s alleged natural ability to recover that’s a pretty potent mix. Currently completely legal. I’ve also noticed Blood Glucose monitors being used in endurance sports. Nothing wrong with that as far as I can see.
Smoke & mirrors at best re. Maurten. They've not released their research for peer review so would take it with a pinch of salt - pardon the pun!
TBH it isn’t just his performance for me. My gut feeling is that his demeanour when he is being interviewed just doesn’t quite sit right. Highly subjective I know & I hope I am wrong, but I do think even the most accomplished liars find it difficult to maintain the facade completely. Let’s face it, Lance’s ‘I’m the most tested athlete in the world’ shtick isn’t actually an outright denial. I’m afraid Pog gives off the same vibe.
Mathieu van der Poel’s power numbers are also in the same region as Pogacar, and had he stayed for the duration i suspect he’s be giving Pog a bit of competition
I doubt it somehow as he's about 10kg heavier.
And let’s face it, they’ve been asking the same veiled question about anyone performing in the mountains in the last few years. Froome was subjected to the same when he was dominating 6 years ago and Sky released his powermeter data
Froome went from being a fat no hoper with dubious bike handling skills to an ultra slim GT winner with dubious bike handling skills, so probably a more valid question when it's aimed at him.
I’ve also noticed Blood Glucose monitors being used
The UCI banned glucose monitoring last month - https://www.bikeradar.com/news/uci-bans-supersapiens/
FWIW, I think Valverde and Colbrelli's performances are far more suspicious than Pog's.
alleged natural ability to recover
After the finish yesterday, Pog was lying on the ground blowing out his arse like a good ‘un, he lay there for a good 4-5 minutes still puffing away. He took longer to recover than I expected.
I don’t recall seeing indurain or many others doing that for an *extended* period of time like that, which makes me think he was pushing to the max.
**extended time for a pro athlete, obviously I’d have had a heart attack several hours earlier 😂😂
FroomeG went from being a fat no hoper with dubious bike handling skills to an ultra slim GT winner with dubious bike handling skills, so probably a more valid question when it’s aimed at him.
Still stand by that?
Froome went from being a fat no hoper with dubious bike handling skills to an ultra slim GT winner with dubious bike handling skills, so probably a more valid question when it’s aimed at him
You mean less valid? There is no drug that can remotely approach the performance impact of shipping 9 kilos of bodyweight from an already pro cyclist.
How he lost that weight is an interesting question.
FWIW, I think Valverde and Colbrelli’s performances are far more suspicious than Pog’s.
Agreed - If anyone on the Tour is Juicing - my money is on Colbrelli.
I think Pog is standing out against because his main competition isn't there, and Cav is cleaning up because he has by far the best lead-out train, and again mediocre competition - Marcel Kittel of 5 years ago would be all over him, as would Sagan at his best/not staying out of trouble due to the Olympics.
As for Carapaz’ face of pain, its well documented after yesterday that it was all bluffing and that Pogacar was properly pissed off with his unwillingness to do a turn, hence the attack at the end by Pog.
Why would Carapaz want to effectively ride for Pogacar? It's a race, he was happily being towed away from Uran who he wanted to distance and maximising his chances of winning the stage. He also wanted to distance theh Danish guy, so if he wanted to share the work with Pog, that was all good for Carapaz no?
you are seeing the strongest GC rider in the world competing in a heavily depleted field
The devil's advocate question is why he's 'the strongest GC rider in the world'. I have no idea if he's doping or not, but the fact that other riders aren't on his level doesn't make him somehow automatically clean.
It'll be interesting to see how he manages a fully fit Bernal in the high mountains though, could be an interesting Vuelta.