STW is, in the main, full of middle aged and old blokes, a few women, but no elite men or women. Whilst we are all very much inclusive on this forum, there is a big issue about womens rights too – not just in sport.     General sport I don’t have an issue, but at elite level, a male that’s gone through puberty is alot more powerful than a woman.

I’d like to see more womens views about this as so far it’s just Hannah’s and again it’s a journalist’s view. How do the other women here feel ?

at elite level, a male that’s gone through puberty is alot more powerful than a woman.

Your source for this claim (which I’m assuming you’re making in the context of trans women, not men)?

We need female views please, not us ‘lot’.

I never post on here but this is mega patronising. If you want an academic debate on the matter, don’t look for it on a mountain bike forum and then piss and moan that the level of debate is so low.

Given the demographic of this forum I’m proud of the amount of positivity in the comments.

I’ve always thought of bicycley type people and competition as being an inclusive sort of thing

Unfortunately, very little about cycling in the UK is inclusive. At the “global” elite level, the huge majority of riders are white and most admins/execs at UCI are European.
https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-must-address-lack-diversity-bicycle-association-299793

You just proved my point about the level of debate here

Careful throwing those stones, a handful of posts ago you were straight in with the whataboutery

Careful throwing those stones, a handful of posts ago you were straight in with the whataboutery

The race thing? Completely valid. No-one has picked up on it. Wonder why?

Ok then @sebcranked

Rather than patronize us all, why not explain to us why you seem to have a view at odds with the UCI. I’m going to assume they probably took on board advice from actual real scientists on the matter afterall ..

Meet Seb. Seb left his job in 1996 to take photos of – and write about – riding bikes.

Come on sunshine !

at elite level, a male that’s gone through puberty is alot more powerful than a woman.
Your source for this claim (which I’m assuming you’re making in the context of trans women, not men)?

Well since this is a mountain bike forum in theory at least, how about this years DH world champs?

Fastest woman, Vali Holl, is a solid unit, pretty powerful by any standard.

She’d have finished 67th out of 73 against the men on the same course on the same day, half a minute slower than Charlie Hatton.

There’s a female swimmer with a cock who recently did well in the US too, if you’re looking for the poster child for male vs female power after puberty.

Claiming these people aren’t allowed to exist if womens elite sport is protected  is a bit of a jump.

you seem to have a view at odds with the UCI. I’m going to assume they probably took on board advice from actual real scientists on the matter afterall ..

You should check if that’s correct rather than just assuming it. Sport governing bodies can vary from good to terrible. I mean, Gianni Infantino is the head of the most powerful one…

Kate Weatherly’s RootsandRain, while I admit her story and journey, the results tell it all for me.

As it’s been mentioned a few times here, where’s the evidence that either supports, or doesn’t, trans athletes competing with cis athletes with no advantage?

With depressing predictability, the same arguments being made. I said I’m not getting involved, but the majority of posters are missing the main point of Hannah’s article. Please go back and read it properly and then maybe debate that?

And to the true bigots that have posted – while there’s still a vocal opposition you and your views are dying out and one day you’ll be history. Can’t come soon enough for me.

<span style=”caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, ‘Helvetica Neue’, Arial, ‘Noto Sans’, sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, ‘Segoe UI’, ‘Apple Color Emoji’, ‘Segoe UI Emoji’, ‘Segoe UI Symbol’, ‘Noto Color Emoji’; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;”>How about they can compete but not officially have results recorded
</span>

how would that work in a game of tennis? Or football? Even in cycling it could majorly influence the outcome of the race?

Unfortunately there is no easy way to determine if an athlete has gained an unfair advantage through transitioning, and some may not have any advantage at all. Ideally you’d be able to say ‘you clearly have a bigger heart and lungs than the average female competitor so sorry but you can’t compete’ but that’s not really practical

I’ve been reading about this subject (academic journals included) for the past two year

Well, if that was correct, then you should also know that trans-woman are not being banned from sport (at least cycling). They are free to compete in the male category (or any open category if a race organizer has such a category).

And such restrictions only apply at the upper echelons of the sport so at grass-roots level, they are free to complete against females (at the behest of the organizer).

I support sporting categories that exclude.

I support categories that exclude on the basis of ability, so that disabled athletes can be included in sport.

I support categories that exclude on the basis of age, so that youth and senior athletes can be included in sport.

I support categories that exclude on the basis of sex, so that women can be included in sport.

Everyone here supports exclusion too. It’s simply a debate about whether the women’s category should exclude on the basis of sex or on the basis of gender identity.

Sex matters in sports, folks. That’s why we have women’s categories.

<span style=”caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, ‘Helvetica Neue’, Arial, ‘Noto Sans’, sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, ‘Segoe UI’, ‘Apple Color Emoji’, ‘Segoe UI Emoji’, ‘Segoe UI Symbol’, ‘Noto Color Emoji’; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;”>As I posted above, Anton Weatherlly was a mid pack + rider. at National DH level in NZ, Kate Weatherly 2 years later podiumed Elite women’s DH World Cup and scored a succession of top 10’s at the same level.
</span>

im not for one minute disputing the fact that many trans athletes could have an advantage that doesn’t go away after transitioning, bigger heart, lung capacity, reach, stride length etc etc (although in the case stated it could equally be that the female talent pool is just far smaller so genetic advantage may not be as much of a factor)

however I’m not sure ALL trans females would have a physiological advantage over other females. Ie I’m pretty sure a 6 foot plus college level male athlete who transitioned would retain far greater advantages than a five and a half foot 8 stone bloke, with no remarkably physiological advantages in the first place, who did the same.

It would of course very much depend on what sport they are partaking in as well..

So it seems that single-track don’t really support free speech  and they have lost another subscriber

They do but Free speech doesn’t cover private platforms and it also does not mean you won’t face consequences. We certainly take action on terms that are defined as a hate crime.

Well the discourse seems to have gone exactly as well as could be expected

You mean generate traffic? Mark will be happy!