So, rather than ‘just ride’ on Zwift I decided I would try the 10-12 wk FTP builder, from this week.
I skipped wk 1-2, as it suggested to if you are ‘in shape’.

I did the wk3 session 1 on Monday & found it pretty easy.
Now, I don’t mind persevering for a while, but it got me wondering about the FTP value it uses during the 10 weeks.

I did an ftp test around a fortnight ago, so I’m happy that the value it’s using currently is about right. But, there is no ‘re-test’ built into the 10 weeks.
Surely if I am getting fitter, the ftp value it uses as time goes on will become too low and the training less effective?

There is no mention about doing an ftp test after a certain number of weeks, so didn’t know if the training plan assumes you will be getting fitter & ramps accordingly, or whether I should be doing my own re-test.
I considered having a week off the training plan at 4 weeks in (so, week 7 on the plan) to just do some ‘normal’ rides and do an ftp test during that week to see where I am.

Has anyone else done this plan, or got any ideas?
I found some relevant threads on other forums but there were unsurprisingly mixed ideas, ranging from:
– leave it at the starting value for the duration
– set the ftp at the start to your target value (erm, yeah right)
– arbitrarily knock the ftp up by 5% a week
– re-test every few weeks (and use the new value assuming it has gone up).

or got any ideas

Well, I’m coached and my plan gets harder every week, then I have a rest week, then repeat. I don’t need an FTP test to tell me I’m completing harder/longer intervals now that I couldn’t 6 weeks ago.

If it feels too easy up your FTP in Swift until it feels hard again.

Kryton57 – Member

If it feels too easy up your FTP in Swift until it feels hard again.

I’ve never really done a structured plan for cycling before.
Given the increased frequency of training compared to what I would normally do under my own steam, I thought perhaps the effort level is set to take this extra frequency into account.

I could just whack an extra 10% onto my ftp, I suppose & see how I get on…..just thought there might be a more scientific method…. 😀

There is – another FTP test. However, so many factors can change your performance event thats not 100% reliable. Ideally every test is the same, same pressure in tyres, same equipment, same kit, same body temp, same level of mental and physical tiredness etc.

I’ve performed a test then 2 weeks later can’t perform the intervals so had to knock it down for the rest of the period. Likewise the other way. It can help to go on feel but ultimately consistency in completing intervals at a suitable level is your friend. You should find it very hard if not impossible to finish the last few minutes / seconds of the last interval if you’re pacing correctly.

– leave it at the starting value for the duration

That one!
Unless you are horrendously out of shape to start with its very unlikely you’ll see enough gains over a 10 week period that you’ll move outwith the ‘zone’ you are aiming at.
For example Sweetspot is 88-94% FTP, if you are working in the top half of that at the start of the block you are very likely to still be working in lower part by the end of the block.

I think that plan does have a rep for starting off sedately.

It looks like week 4,8 and 12 are rest weeks so I would be inclined to do an ftp test at the end of those weeks- just allow a day off before restarting the plan.

That should mean you don’t need to fudge the figure and will hopefully give your motivation a boost too.

I’d say not dreading an ftp test and getting good at pacing them are the two best things you can do to give an ftp-based plan a chance of succeeding.
Then the workouts should feel just right. (I.e. impossibly hard initially, just easy enough for one more in the middle and endorphin-boostingly amazing when you scrape through the last one 🙂 )

fifeandy – Member

– leave it at the starting value for the duration
That one!
Unless you are horrendously out of shape to start with its very unlikely you’ll see enough gains over a 10 week period that you’ll move outwith the ‘zone’ you are aiming at.

crosshair – Member

I think that plan does have a rep for starting off sedately.

It looks like week 4,8 and 12 are rest weeks so I would be inclined to do an ftp test at the end of those weeks- just allow a day off before restarting the plan.

Rightio ho, then. While I would like to see what would happen by following it at the same value & seeing where I end up, I don’t want to get to the end of 10 weeks & find out I wasn’t pushing hard enough.

I think I’ll do a couple of update ftp tests & see what’s what. I suppose if there is little change I haven’t really lost anything, while if there is an improvement I will be maximising any gains by upping the value in Zwift, so the following workouts are more representative.

Cheers, chaps!

I’m on the 4wk one – half way through wk2

wk1 was very easy; wk2 is less so. I wondered about upping to 110% or whatever (there’s an adjuster somewhewre IIRR) but haven’t and no longer planning to

lol literally just finished day 1 of the 4 wk programme. Was thinking, “hmmm this is way easier than racing”… will probably leave the FTP alone now though and see how it goes 🙂

I reckon you could bump up for wk1 if you wanted, zilog. Even 1st half of wk 2 (it’s wk2 days 5&6 that have been noticeably harder and they still havent ruined me like a hard race might)

remaining sceptical as to benefits

I guess the 10/12 week programme would have more impact, thought I’d try the short one first though to see how I found it (and if I could handle not racing!)

the races are quite fun and a great work out. I find I work harder on them. They add a bit of fun and change to training programs. That’s the key to success, keep it interesting and enjoyable.

I did write and then lose a long post Scaredypants, with lots of descriptions and analogies about honing sets of knives etc 😆

I can’t be bothered to rewrite it so suffice to say that that’s the whole point! Training isn’t supposed to wipe you out every session, otherwise the subsequent one suffers. It’s about doing just enough work at the precise intensity to get the adaptation you are after and not a minute, second or set more! Save it to smash out tomorrow’s work.

Training isn’t supposed to wipe you out every session … Save it to smash out tomorrow’s work

deep, deep down I know that but I honestly think I could have repeated every one of the week 1 sessions immediately after finishing.

This week’s a bit harder and is making me try harder in consistent efforts than I have ever done in races – but that’s just the nature of races; there isn’t a 3 minute 125% push, more like 60 seconds at 150-175%

At least I’m left feeling my legs yesterday and today, so I’m viewing that as evidence that things are ramping up (or else that I’m flagging 😕 )

Well tonight’s session was interesting….

Wk3 day2 – warm up with a ramp, then a steady segment before 3 sets of 10 second Sprint with ~2min ‘recovery’.

10 min recovery between sets seemed almost too easy (yes, I know it’s recovery).

It was hard to get the 10 second sprint done because the reaction time of the trainer is too slow.
Oh, and I almost toppled the trainer during one exertion!!

Training isn’t supposed to wipe you out every session, otherwise the subsequent one suffers.

Every week the first Monday on my current plan feels easy. By Saturday night I want to crawl into bed.

6 weeks from the start I’m completing almost double the intervals I could manage in week one about 10% higher watts.

It must work.

At least let’s hope so as I reach a peak 3 months over the next few weeks and have intervals or rides every single day until 9th Dec! I then taper for a race.

Just noticed that the 4 week FTP builder programme a ride for every day of the week. I’m only going to be able to Zwift on weekdays (i.e. 5 days a week max).

Is it just a case of continuing the programme into the next calendar week i.e. so it takes 5/6 weeks instead or whatever? or should I strategically drop a couple of workouts per week so each workout week still takes a calendar week? Also is it worth upping the intensity on the Friday since I’ll have 2 days of rest after, or not?

Wouldn’t mind stretching it out a bit anyway so I can squeeze in or substitute a Zwift race for one of the workouts so I can still get one race in a week (as someone – Crosshair? – mentioned in the main Zwift thread)

I’ve been using the 4 week FTP builder to add some more structure to my training, I’m just going through them in order but not completing a session everyday due to other commitments, races, etc. Anyone want to share their FTP or 1 min/5min gains since doing something similar?

Erm, no idea what is scientifically ‘best’ for the 4wk FTP builder plan.
If it was me, I would probably do them in order when you can, which would extend the length of the plan to something like 6 weeks & be prepared for the gains perhaps to not be quite as high as they might have been.

I finished my ‘first’ week of the 10-12 week ftp builder on Saturday. It was actually week three of the plan because I skipped wks 1 & 2 as it suggested (if already in shape, whatever that means).
Saturdays session was a bit more exertion that the rest of the week, but there still seems to be an awful lot of ‘warm-up’ – i.e. Wk3 day4 had me doing 10 mins of warm-up, followed by, erm another 10 mins of warm up. Then there was a 5 min cool down at the end – so 25mins of very easy pedalling for a 85min session. Seems a bit OTT to me.

Happy to share my ftp change once I’ve done the full thing – only another 9 weeks to go…!

Stumpy- that’s not all warm up, the second 10 minutes is a Z2 ramp 😀

If you weren’t finding that annoyingly hard by the end of the ramp (i.e. not quite hard enough to get your teeth into but not so easy you don’t have to concentrate) then your ftp could be a little conservative.

The rest should have been challenging enough to need full concentration and you’d have definitely needed a cool down by the end??

The whole point of intervals compared to just racing is to incorporate enough rest to make sure the work quality stays high.

crosshair – Member
Stumpy- that’s not all warm up, the second 10 minutes is a Z2 ramp

Yeah, but it came up on the description during the workout as a warm up!
I suppose the Z3 intervals were an effort, but never a real stress. The 5x 1min intervals at the end were a proper effort and I was pleased to get the 5th over with.

I might stick it up a few watts tonight…

The Z3 bits are around Sweetspot territory.
Those 3x 1min efforts are actually a touch easier than you’d ride a 20minute ftp test at- but if they feel tougher at that stage, it’s probably a good sign that the Sweetspot bit was doing you some good.

Tested my calibration out after tonight’s ride and it was reading ‘too loose’ so have sorted that out and see what difference that makes!
It can’t have been helping!

Well, as something of a follow-up….

I was a snotty bunged up mess come Tuesday last week, so ditched any riding & am starting week 4 again this week.

After calibrating the trainer, it did seem harder yesterday compared to last week, but I am unsure how much of that is down to the extra tension on the trainer, or the dregs of my cold coupled with 2hrs up a ladder on Sunday putting Christmas decorations under the roof.

I just need to try not to get anymore lurgy. A 2 year old daughter who has at least 3 social gatherings a week with her fellow germ spreaders makes it unlikely!

I’m halfway through the 4 wk programme (spreading it out a bit as I can’t Zwift every day!) I’m finding some days easy, some OK and some bloody tough to be honest! Not really trained like this before (done intervals but never stuck at it) and it’s definitely highlighting my weaknesses (mainly recovering after a big effort!) which I guess is a good thing if the training improves those areas.

Also finding the longer sweet-spot parts of the session quite tough psychologically sometimes even though fitness-wise they’re fine! Another aspect to the training I guess 😆

I did an ftp test around a fortnight ago, so I’m happy that the value it’s using currently is about right.

How familiar are you with FTP tests? If it was your first one then it was probably rubbish (from my own experience).

Although I don’t know the Zwift training programme, I would advise against too many FTP re-tests in a short period. If you’re doing them properly it’ll be a hard workout on its own and probably wipe you out for a day or two. Certainly don’t do one during a recovery week.

Surely to get an accurate figure it SHOULD be done during a recovery week.

Your recovered, and therefore the results will be true reflection of your power and not affected by fatigue…

I think what he’s saying is that if you do the FTP test it’s no longer a recovery week!!

Clearly you should have an easy couple of days leading up to it so you can test at your best.

That’s exactly when I do my FTP test, towards the end of a recovery week….

GHill – Member

How familiar are you with FTP tests? If it was your first one then it was probably rubbish (from my own experience).

Erm, I’ve done a few although I will agree that there are a lot of variables that will affect the result. I think there is definitely something to be said for how experienced you are at doing the test itself; pacing, mentality, knowing how hard you can work yourself etc. will all play their part.

But, for me this is all a bit of a starting point so I am not too fussed about it being perfect from the off…
I definitely think that the re-calibration of the trainer has made a difference, so I will keep a closer eye on that from now on!

If it’s useful for anyone else – I started working my way through Zwifts 4wk FTP booster at the beginning of November completing sessions as an when time permits, the only other riding I’ve done being a few 45mile outdoor jaunts. I’m now up to the middle of Week 3 and my FTP is up by at least 15 watts. I did an FTP test in October and a number of races and have recently re-tested and baselined in a couple of races to verify the test. Pretty happy with these results as I don’t have a huge amount of time to spare for training but hoped it might motivate others who are similarly time-poor. Should also add that my maximal heart rate is also up and power vs heart rate and rate of recovery are also showing improvements.

I’m on wk 7 although Christmas has thrown a spanner in the works. Today was supposed to be the start of wk 8, but I still have wk 7 days 4 and 5 to do – not ideal.
So, I am going to them at the early part of this week and then perhaps do an FTP test towards the end of the week after a couple of days rest, and then kick off week 8 next Monday.

I ended up adding 10 watts to the starting FTP value for this training block; so have been using 201, rather than 191 watts which is what the original FTP test put me at…
I found the sessions too easy, so added an arbitrary 10w. Not very scientific, I know.

The intensity is definitely ramping up though, which is good to see.

I was just searching for people’s results using the 4 week ftp booster on zwift to see if they had good results and found this thread. I’d consider myself a reasonable club cyclist but am new to structured training. I have just completed the 10/12week ftp builder on zwift. I gained 27w over the period from ftp of 249-276w body fat% decreased by 2.5% in this period also down to 15%. End result was w/kg at ftp went from 2.9-3.5 so I’d say it definitely works so stick with it.
Early weeks felt fairly easy with one harder session each week. Around week 8 the sessions get longer and the time spent in and around sweet spot increases.
Plan now is to compete 4 week booster followed by 8 week race prep to be ready for my first season of racing. Am hoping for a return of around 300w and 4w/kg to make me competitive.

norfolkinggoodenough – nice one. Cheers for the info – it sounds like you’ve had a good result! Hopefully I will have a noticeable increase in FTP.
I did wonder what to do after this training plan is over, in terms of weekly rides; I don’t think I’ll be able to keep up with 4 or 5 rides per week for domestic harmony to remain! 3 I can probably get away with.

I have put on a fair chunk of weight over Christmas, so I don’t think my w/kg will be going up any time soon. I am now planning on doing something about getting rid of the spare timber, so hopefully things will balance back out again before too long!

Family definitely comes first Stumpy. I am very lucky in that I have an understanding wife who doesn’t grumble if I am out 2 evenings a week and from Spring I even get out for a longer ride at weekends on the proviso I’m back by 10-11am so we can still do things together. I usually get up early before work to do my zwifting so plan to continue this even once weather is better as it’s much easier to complete structured training in the absence of traffic.
I don’t know what your schedule is like but possibly you could do something similar?

norfolkinggoodenough makes a good point above. FTP is pretty irrelevant if you want to compare with someone else. Watts/Kg is a better comparison.

If you want to TT against someone else, FTP or FTP/kg is probably a great marker but I suspect racing needs better measure(s) of capability before you can make a sensible prediction

norfolkinggoodenough – Member

I don’t know what your schedule is like but possibly you could do something similar?

Well, I am up at 5:45 and leave the house by around 6:25 in the week, so morning workouts are out…
I mainly do mine in the evenings once my daughter is asleep, so I can spend a bit of time with her between getting home from work & her going to bed.

During the summer I was getting up early on a Sat and doing anything from 40-60 miles; trying to leave the house by 6:30am or so. I’ll probably start doing that again once it warms up a bit! 😀