Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 45 total)
  • Your opinions on whether this is discrimination or not
  • geetee1972
    Free Member

    My wife got paid a yearly bonus that is based on company performance. She has 15 years service but for a significant part of the year in which the bonus relates, she was on maternity leave (for which she got nothing but statutory pay).

    The bonus was supposed to be three weeks pay and was paid to everyone except that she only got two weeks pay. The reason given is that she as not entitled to the full amount because she was on maternity leave.

    I’m of the opinion (where of course opinions are like poo holes) that this is discriminatory (because the company is treating her differently because she is on mat leave).

    I’m curious to know what other people think.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Would/did someone on part-time hours receive the full bonus?

    somouk
    Free Member

    You would need to look in to the wording of her contract in particular the entitlement of the bonus.

    If she wasn’t working as she was on maternity then she didn’t generate income towards the bonus therefore isn’t due it. I can understand the logic there.

    gogg
    Free Member

    That’s the nub. Surely they’d get, three weeks of their part-time pay.

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    Yes I can understand that logic to and part of me also gets the ‘you can’t have it all your own way and expect something for nothing’ but I have a sneaking feeling that’s not how the law sees it.

    For reference the bonus is not paid for revenue so much as it is operating efficiencies (it’s an airline but I won’t say which one).

    the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    Seems fair to me (unless her contract states different)

    iolo
    Free Member

    Is the bonus performance related?
    If so how can she expect a full bonus while she’s not there.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Seems fair to me, she can’t have contributed to the company’s performance whilst not there, so scaling it pro-rate on attendance seems rational.

    somouk
    Free Member

    For reference the bonus is not paid for revenue so much as it is operating efficiencies

    So what exactly dictates whether the bonus is paid?

    spawnofyorkshire
    Full Member

    ^this

    if it’s not clear how’s calculated then it’s not a fair system.
    Agree that if it is based upon performance then difficult to assign full amount when not there.
    If it’s an arbitrary figure then everyone should get the same regardless

    freeagent
    Free Member

    Sounds reasonable to me –
    If she was on maternity leave – she didn’t contribute very much toward the targets which needed to be achieved in order to receive a bonus.

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    Is the bonus performance related?
    If so how can she expect a full bonus while she’s not there.

    Yes it is, but it’s a company wide bonus not individual.

    In answer to the second question, the counter argument is that you can’t treat employees on maternity leave differently to those that are not on maternity leave. To put it another way, you shouldn’t be disadvantaged just because you’re on mat leave.

    The company does not pay individuals differentiated rates based on their own performance; it’s paid on company performance and it is entirely possible that someone could have been paid it even though they personally are under performing.

    That the company doesn’t discriminate against individual performance suggests that they pay it only in respect of them being an employee.

    nealglover
    Free Member

    Seems fair and logical to me.

    Out of interest, if you take her years earnings (for the year in question) divide by 52 and multiply by 3

    Is the answer higher or lower than the bonus she was paid ?

    chewkw
    Free Member

    I think it’s fair.

    🙂

    BoardinBob
    Full Member

    Two of my staff have been out on maternity leave for the majority of the year. I pro-rated their bonuses down accordingly.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    Its hard to argue she contributed to the acheivement when she was not there.
    I suspect she may still have a case though as she was still y an employee, getting holidays etc and she did fulfil her contract, you could argue it both ways IMHO
    On balance I would say its unlikely her absence was a great help to the company but i might try it on to get it all.

    I would try and get it in writing that they have done this BECAUSE she was pregnant [ that will be discrimination] and then you probably have a case but I still think it is taking the piss a bit tbh

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    Either way, whats the benefit in raising it? 1 weeks pay is not going to be that much, and personally I wouldnt want to start peeing off the senior team just for the sake of 1 weeks pay… when I wasnt even in work.

    Check contract, but a bonus is a bonus, not salaried pay, and the fact is on Mat Leave you dont even get all your salaried pay, so a bonus would, well be a bonus surely ??

    david47
    Free Member

    What sort of bonus do people get who only turn up mid year ?

    PimpmasterJazz
    Free Member

    OP – I understand why they did it, but also understand your point.

    It could be worth your other half talking to HR to get the official company position and both of you looking into the legal side of it.

    convert
    Full Member

    Pro rata for fraction of the year actually worked seems logical.

    But as you accrue leave whilst on maternity leave (which to me seems frankly bonkers) I’m not sure how much logic plays any part of working out maternity leave entitlement.

    the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    TBH if I was off “for a significant part of the year” I’d be thinking I’d done pretty well to get 2 weeks salary as bonus.

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    So what exactly dictates whether the bonus is paid?

    It’s based on a number of variables the most notable of which are punctuality and profit.

    She’s a pilot so her ability to influence profit is pretty limited, but punctuality is something a pilot can contribute towards. That may be why the bonus is paid in part but not in full (i.e. in respect of the fact that she can’t influence profit but the company still hit its target).

    allthepies
    Free Member

    Was she receiving her full salary for the entire maternity leave period ?

    nedrapier
    Full Member

    Bonuses are paid on x% of earned salary here, which I think is perfectly fair.

    Being paid 2/3 of a bonus for (potentially, you don’t say) 1/2 the days worked is more than fair, I’d say.

    There may be more to it which is stoking your sense of righteous indignation, but I can’t see it from what you’ve posted.

    nedrapier
    Full Member

    [cheeky]had you spent the bonus already? 😀 [/cheeky]

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    All good points and taken in the spirit they are offered.

    The question ‘why make an issue out of it’ is a good one. If it was just this instance of ‘possible discrimination’ then it probably wouldn’t register but there are a number of other instances where this kind of thing has cropped up.

    For example, the airport she works from has a pay cap placed on it, i.e. someone doing more or less the same job from that airport cannot reach the same earning potential as someone from another airport down the road. The reason given is that the operation from that airport doesn’t make any profit but that is quite clearly because the company has engineered it that way (all the profitable routes are given to the other airport).

    Now all that is one thing, but actually, there is a far higher proportion of female pilots at this pay capped airport than the other one (not sure why but we think it’s because it’s an easier place to balance work and family from).

    There was also an instance where she was told she couldn’t claim expenses for being sent to the other airport while she was grounded (they don’t allow women to fly while pregnant) even though if she has to go to the other airport while not grounded, she can claim expenses. She was told ‘you can’t have it all your own way love’, which prompted a call to HR who promptly over ruled the manager.

    I/we aren’t strongly wedded to an issue here, just appreciative of your views.

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    Was she receiving her full salary for the entire maternity leave period ?

    No statutory. But the rule relates to other benefits of employment like annual leave and promotion, all of which are protected by mat leave laws.

    stoking your sense of righteous indignation

    And no sense of an indignation here, righteous or otherwise. Pretty sure I didn’t give any reason to suspect that was the case but apologies if I did.

    loum
    Free Member

    you shouldn’t be disadvantaged just because you’re on mat leave.

    This is the issue.
    She hasn’t been disadvantaged.
    Just not as “advantaged” as some others who have been rewarded for their performance.

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    That’s a good point Loum, but i think actually the wording is something like ‘you should be treated the same’ when it comes to employment benefits.

    warns74
    Free Member

    What does her contract state in relation to maternity leave and bonus payments?

    Grizla
    Free Member

    I thought this was pretty standard practice. My wife is on maternity leave and only got a pro rata bonus for last year.

    Same would happen if off sick for a significant amount of time at my place.

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    Well that seems like we have broad consensus. Happy to take that as ‘nothing to feel aggrieved about here, move along please’.

    So where is everyone riding this weekend?

    legolam
    Free Member

    Does this help?
    http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/advice-and-guidance/guidance-for-workers/pay-and-benefits/decisions-about-pay-and-benefits-for-women-and-men-equal-pay/pay-benefits-and-bonuses-during-maternity-leave/

    Specifically:

    Your employer must also pay you any contractual bonus payment awarded to you during your maternity leave period, or that would have been awarded had you not been on maternity leave. However, when your employer works out your bonus, the actual time during which you are on maternity leave will not generally be included, except for the two or four weeks of compulsory maternity leave.

    For example:

    A woman goes on maternity leave three months before the end of her company’s accounting year. At the end of the accounting year, while she is on maternity leave, bonuses for the whole year are awarded to staff. The woman’s bonus is calculated based on the nine months of the accounting year when she was not on maternity leave plus the two week compulsory maternity leave period that applies to her because she is not a factory worker (it would be four weeks if she worked in a factory).

    Your employer must pay any pay rise or bonus when they would usually be due, and not wait until you get back from your leave.

    loum
    Free Member

    My (wife’s) experience is that there’s a lot of corporate fear around maternity discrimination and a fair few grey areas open to interpretation.
    If your wife and you think you can make a good case for a claim on that bonus payment, then why not go for it. Just keep it civil and polite and roll the dice, they’re loaded in your favour.
    I’d be more inclined to just mention some reasons why she’s entitled rather than actually claim discrimination (they’re a big company with a decent HR dept – it wouldn’t need saying anyway), especially without knowing their reasons for not paying fully.

    edit TBH, she won’t be the first employee to have been pregnant. The scale of the company means they must have been through this before and HR will likely have some clause in there that mean’s they’ve not done wrong by your wife.

    nedrapier
    Full Member

    no sense of an indignation here, righteous or otherwise. Pretty sure I didn’t give any reason to suspect that was the case but apologies if I did.

    Really wasn’t meant as a dig. Indignation is at the heart of justice – “Hang on, that’s not right!” Where could you start with fairness if not there?

    And I can see that there’s plenty around this that points to the conclusion that she’s not being treated fairly. Trouble is, the “plenty” is spread thin, and it sounds like any one thing you point at could be explained/justified by them in isolation as being quite reasonable. Does sound tricky.

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    Legolam that is very helpful indeed. Thank you.

    I think this wraps things up nicely.

    So where are you all riding this weekend?

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    To put it another way, you shouldn’t be disadvantaged just because you’re on mat leave.

    The law of unintended consequences – the above is a reason often given by women (wife and colleagues included) for not hiring women of a certain age.

    Seems fair to me FWIW rather than discrimination.

    thegeneralist
    Free Member

    It’s funny all the people discussing logic, and what’s fair in relation to maternity pay. Neither of them has any bearing on the situation. Consider for example that you accrue holiday whilst on Maternity Leave, even if it’s paid in full, that you then can take once your maternity leave has ended.

    So it wouldn’t surprise me at all if the law says she should get the full bonus even though she wasn’t there.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    I don’t have time to read the whole thread but if others didn’t get their bonus reduced for every day off sick or absent for any other reason then it’s blatant sexism.

    nedrapier
    Full Member

    Are you saying pregnancy is a sickness, Edukator?

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