we as a nation are in debt, how long till the likes of africa and all of the other places start to repay us back, it wont happen

Heading out for a ride today i went past one of the local Asian areas – there was a bunch of blokes in hi-vis vests with a megaphone and collecting buckets. Surprised me as i understand that area to be mainly Bangladeshi in origin and don't they dislike the Pakistanis?

Also, saw a dodgy bloke on TV last night being interviewed outside a local Mosque (ride past it frequently) he's part of the Ummah relief fund and 'allegedly' rather dodgy on the getting involved with questionable fundraising for anti-Western groups front.

What about the money lost in 'Icelandic bank accounts' well after it was needed.
Why should I donate? when I see charity directors living like kings.
Governments, bandits etc taking their share after all expenditure is done with, how much is left per pound of donation?

Alas I have no evidence or facts whatsoever.

No worries. I'd discounted your opinions anyway. No offence.

I refuse to feel guilt about the British Empire because it exploited and abused my forefathers just as it did those from elsewhere, that doesn't make me selfish, petty or ignorant, it just makes me aware of my history. I don't need to sweep anything under the carpet as my hands are clean.

It's not about feeling 'guilty'; no-one in Britain today is responsible for the actions of those in the past. It's about recognising that Britain owes many of it's former colonies a huge debt, in so many ways, for helping provide Britain with the wealth and status it enjoys today. Invariably against the will of the people in those countries.

As for 'reactionary', well, to ask that people look past petty selfishness and ignorance to help other Human Beings in desperate need of help isn't what I'd call 'reactionary'.

So many of the views expressed in this thread reveal little understanding of history, politics and economics, and merely show just how insular and selfish we in the West have become. Always quick to blame others for any shortcomings, without looking at our own actions.

Pakistan is a very poor country, who's people deserve help and support. Have a think about that, the next time you get a glass of clean water, use a free healthcare system, watch your kids go out to their free schools. Feel free to buy your XTR pedals, surely you've earned them. But a quid in a bucket's not going to hurt, and might make just a tiny bit of difference for someone nowhere near as well off as yourself.

If they return or become part of India then such problem will not exist as India is very rich.

😆

Feel free to buy your XTR pedals, surely you've earned them. But a quid in a bucket's not going to hurt, and might make just a tiny bit of difference for someone nowhere near as well off as yourself.

Seriously, WTF are you on about ? Where on the thread have I said that I wouldn't give to the aid fund ?

Fact is I'll contribute on account of my compassion towards humanity. I won't however be made to contribute because of some innapropriate post colonial guilt as you were trying to suggest we should.

I'll leave it there, I can't see the point in debating if you're not even able to read what I am/am not posting.

If elfinsafety is not Fred, he is engendered with the same ability to patronize.

I was convinced you'd just called Fred/elfin 'transgendered' then…. 😯

Might explain some of his utterings tho!

Don't be outing him now. It's fun watching him make a tool of himself, no ?

Its terrible, no doubt. But charity begins at home.

As said. Its hard to feel compassion for a nation that is quick to start burning effigies and ranting at the west at a drop of a hat.

Lets see who contributes the most. The despised west or the other islamic countries…

I am sure the million + Pakistani immigrants in the uk can raise a few bob between them for there compatriots, as a nation we give rather a lot and send relief aid amongst other independent charities some of whom get murdered for their trouble!

I am sure the million + Pakistani immigrants in the uk

There are over a million Pakistani immigrants living in the UK?

Or do you mean British Citizens of Pakistani Origin? IE, British people?

According to this, the number of Pakistani born people in the UK , IE 'immigrants', is only 321,000 at the time of the 2001 Uk census. I doubt very much that figure has risen beyond a million in the last 10 years.

I'm sure the Pakistani communities of the UK, along with many other people from all manner of backgrounds are donating to the relief fund.

I'm sure the Pakistani communities of the UK, along with many other people from all manner of backgrounds are donating to the relief fund

I don't doubt it, I may of misheard the statics on Pakistani immigrants living in the UK or British Citizens of Pakistani Origin, a substantial number anyhow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Pakistanis#Demographics

Christ there's some horrible bullshit being spouted in this thread.

This is particularly good.

As said. Its hard to feel compassion for a nation that is quick to start burning effigies and ranting at the west at a drop of a hat.

😕

I may of misheard the statics on Pakistani immigrants living in the UK

Ot maybe just made them up…

What annoys me about some of the attitudes on this thread, is the 'why should we help them' mentality, which I feel is selfish and ignorant.

Forget for a moment that it's Pakistan. The truth is, that hundreds of thousands of people are directly affected by events over which they have no control. The risk of disease from contaminated water supplies is huge. Crops and animals have been destroyed. In many cases, these are the only means of food these people have. Which is why aid is so vitally important. As it would be anywhere where poor people in places without decent infrastructure, medical services and uncontaminated water supplies.

That some have chosen to politicise this terrible disaster is quite sad, I think. Maybe thinking beyond themselves is just a bit beyond some folk.

Will they beg India for help since they wanted out from India?

🙂

Its hard to feel compassion for a nation that is quick to start burning effigies and ranting at the west at a drop of a hat.

Maybe you should remember that Pakistan as part of old India, helped to provide Britain with the largest volunteer army during World war 2.

In fact over 2 million men from the Indian subcontinent volunteered to help Britain fight her enemies.
Which represented the largest volunteer army ever in history.

"Over two and a half million Indian men volunteered for service, producing the largest volunteer army in history. Many fought against the Japanese in Burma, but Indian soldiers also served in North and East Africa, Italy and Greece. The Royal Indian Air Force (RIAF) fought against the Japanese, while Royal Indian Navy ships fought in the North Atlantic and the Mediterranean. There were around 40,000 Indian servicemen in the British Merchant Navy. "

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/timeline/factfiles/nonflash/a6651218.shtml

So Pakistanis fought to save British democracy.

But now you feel it's "hard to feel compassion" for them……….there's gratitude for you 😐

The world was a very different place then – Germany and Japan as much so…

So your point has little relevance today. I am very sure many more agree to what I wrote …i am also sure you disagree.

"So your point has little relevance today."

Only because you have decided so ….it occurred during some people's lifetime.

"I am very sure many more agree to what I wrote"[/b]

Based on what ? I don't see that lack of compassion is that widespread. But maybe you have proof that it is ?

It's all by the by, we don't have any money to give them and that's it.
There's no way on earth we should borrow more to help another nation. We need to put all foreign aid on hold until we have sorted our finances out. After that, fine help all we can but until then I'd rather see the money going to the NHS or new schools or better kit for the forces.

radoggair – Member
> Britain is such a wealthy nation
Ha ha, nice one. Apart from the 154 billion or so we are in debt by.

We are not in debt by £154 Billion, that's just how much the debt increased by last year. Total debt now stands at over £900Bn. Just as well Mr Darlings investment in bailing out the UK Banking system is due to net HMG around £9Bn, or it would be even worse.

It's all by the by, we don't have any money to give them and that's it.

Yeah because we are all starving to death here aren't we – I mean none of us could stand to be a little bit poorer. We might have to buy Deore FFS!!! 😡

Deore? Oh please God no…

Can we at least have SLX rear mechs?

Oh the Humanity!

What part don't you understand?
We-do-not-have-any-money. Not to give away and not to spend.
XT or deore? we're on an Alivio budget.

What part don't you understand?

This bit : We-do-not-have-any-money. Not to give away and not to spend.

The banks are full of the stuff, the government pays people with it, people use it in shops, and carry it around in purses and wallets.

ernie_lynch – Member
> What part don't you understand?
This bit : We-do-not-have-any-money. Not to give away and not to spend.

The banks are full of the stuff, the government pays people with it, people use it in shops, and carry it around in purses and wallets.

Unfortunately, we already owe it all to other folk.

Unfortunately, we already owe it all to other folk.

Well we lent the banks £850bn …….. can't we ask for it back ?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/163850bn-official-cost-of-the-bank-bailout-1833830.html

Unfortunately, we already owe it all to other folk.

Yes but we only have to pay it back at a fairly tiny rate of interest. What interest rate do you think Pakistan pays on it's national debt?

Y

eah because we are all starving to death here aren't we

Some of us are, under priviliged children, etc.
The Social work, welfare system is stretched beyond belief.
Childrens homes are full, if it were not for the foster care system the problem would be much worse.

It's probably alright for you financially, but for the majority of working classes in employment or otherwise, the prospect of making a charitable donation is not an option.

ernie_lynch – Member
> Unfortunately, we already owe it all to other folk.
Well we lent the banks £850bn …….. can't we ask for it back ?

Tut, tut. Copied and pasted and not understood. From the very article you posted…The NAO report put a question mark over the Treasury's estimate of the taxpayers' long-term bill for the rescue of between £20bn and £50bn, saying it will depend heavily on the Government's sale of its stakes in RBS and Lloyds. And since the NAO report, the share price of the banks has risen, and they are now turning a profit. As I said above, HMG actually stands to make £9Bn from the bank bailout. The £902Bn that the country is in debt has nothing at all to do with bankers and everything to do with profligate spending by a useless government.

It's probably alright for you financially, but for the majority of working classes in employment or otherwise, the prospect of making a charitable donation is not an option.

Well I earn a long way below the national average salary – but I could certainly live on less quite comfortably. Sure there are some people in poverty here but the level and scale of poverty in this country doesn't compare to in less developed countries. And I'm not talking about individual donations anyway.

People in this country don't know they are **** born – honestly, whining about giving aid to millions of poor destitute people – a new low for STW I think.

Tut, tut. From the very article you quoted :

"In its report, the NAO ruled that the "unprecedented" £850bn of support for the banks was "justified" to head off the potential damage of one or more of them going bust, and preserving people's savings and confidence in the financial system."

The Social work, welfare system is stretched beyond belief.

How 'stretched' do you reckon the social work and welfare system is in Pakistan, even before a disaster like this?

Yes – and that support was mainly in the form of guarantees and indemnities – i.e. no money was ever actually handed over to anybody, HMG simply promised that no one would lose out.

How 'stretched' do you reckon the social work and welfare system is in Pakistan, even before a disaster like this?

But this is not Pakistan, people here prioritise according to personal wealth.
If I had a few bob I'd gladly hand some over(even if only 10p per £10 or so reached it's intended cause).
It's the corruption that exists in how charitable donations gets to it's intended purpose.
What about the lost millions in Icelandic bank accounts which were meant for the victims of the tsunami?
Council
Gone forever.

Why is it that anytime anybody posts a negative response in a thread like this your labelled or it is implied your a racist? Yes it is terrible that hundreds of thousands of people are in hell right now but ask yourself this what has the leader of their country done today(might have been yesterday?) He has spent the day at his sons college, eton/oxford or such like promoting him and his political party as he is widely tipped to be the next leader of the country, odd that being his son! What would have been made of president obama going on a jolly when they went through the bp or 'katrina' disaster?

You are wasting your time helping those who won't help themselves, regardless of creed or colour. Billions have been pumped into countries like india, pakistan, afrcia etc and it has made no difference. Those at the top keep it for themselves and let others suffer.

Also colonization wasn't only a one way thing, yes it was done by us for purely selfish reasons but where would those countries be now without the infrastrucure we put in place during colonization?

People need to stand back and take a look at the WHOLE picture without jumping on their soap boxes.

Why is it that anytime anybody posts a negative response in a thread like this your labelled or it is implied your a racist?

Where did anyone say that? Interesting that you brought it up though…

Yes it is terrible that hundreds of thousands of people are in hell right now but ask yourself this what has the leader of their country done today

Our leader is a ^&*( too – but I would like to think that other countries wouldn't write off our whole country on that basis.

Oh yeah and Africa isn't a country. Nor is afrcia for that matter.

Why is it that anytime anybody posts a negative response in a thread like this your labelled or it is implied your a racist?

Where did anyone say that? Interesting that you brought it up though…

You have read the whole thread then!?!

I do get brassed off when people come into this country & get NHS treatment before others who have contributed to the NI system.

So, do you actually know the reasons for this (if indeed it's even true)? And you know that these 'immigrants' have no entitlement to NHS care? And that their medical needs are no more serious than anybody else?

Otherwise it just sounds like a typical BNP style load of bollocks, sorry. I'd be interested in seeing some real facts on this though, if you actually have any. Otherwise I'll just assume that it's misinformed jingoistic claptrap.

I leave ginger biscuits out so that they go a bit soft. I prefer them like that!

Oh yeah and Africa isn't a country. Nor is afrcia for that matter.

Sorry Africa is a continent but thank you for the typical response, pick fault with the spelling and belittle.

Our leader is a ^&*( too – but I would like to think that other countries wouldn't write off our whole country on that basis.

I didn't write the whole country off as a result of the leader I only and I think rightly so put forward the actions of the countries leader as an example of the country, hence my reference to obama.

At the risk of attracting the wrath of the resident STW history "expert" –

Its hard to feel compassion for a nation that is quick to start burning effigies and ranting at the west at a drop of a hat.

is a tad unfair. I don't think I've yet seen an entire nation anywhere demonstrating about anything.

In fact, the last time this happened in Pakistan was of course when Dave said something of the equivalent accuracy of "air has oxygen in it". I remember the newscast showed about half-a-dozen silly looking frothers-at-the-mouth jumping up and down under a very amusingly miss-spelt banner about somebody called "David Camroon" who apparently has a "Loos" mouth.