Sorry about the contentious title, it's not as brittle as it may appear.

I ride an Orange Five and have done for four years, but I'm starting to miss the lower maintenance aspect of my old hard tail (or to put it another way- I cant afford to get the rear shock serviced) and I'm missing the more interactive aspect of trail riding on a HT- that and the fact that it's easier to get jumps off tree roots on a HT.

So I thought I might get a HT frame and swap my stuff over and go back to the full sus when the season becomes more suitable for a full sus- the trouble is I can't think when this season is!

I bought the Five for a move to a more mountainous region abroad which never happened and do love the "ride anything" proto D/H advantages of it. I currently live in Notts and ride swoopy single track and day long XC trips.

I'm just curious as to what makes people choose which bike if they own or have access to both types.

Run for the hills!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've got a Giant Anthem for endurance racing mainly, as it's less punishing. Did have a longer travel trail bike until recently for normal riding, as it's faster downhill, easier to climb rocky climbs & more comfortable.
fwiw, air can services on a rear shock takes 5 mins, cost peanuts, can be done at home & reduces the cost of sending them off to be done.

I'm just curious as to what makes people choose which bike if they own or have access to both types.

Which one is working at the time! LOL

Sorry… More seriously, I was an early adopter of full sus, back in 1996 in fact, and have owned many different full sus bikes over the years. I love them for various reasons, but as you seem to be noticing too, the more you ride, the more of a pain in the arse they can be…

Hence why in this lovely British climate that seems to be becoming colder and more miserable every year (global warming? 😉 ) I've more recently found myself keeping the full sus bikes in the garage and riding my hardtail (with an Alfine geared hub no less for even less maintenance) way more, as I can just ride it, leave it covered in mud, then ride it again the next day or day after etc…

Fun.

Race hardtail
Large volume Schwalbes.
Good forks
Loose spokes!
Jobs a good'un.

4.2" trance with 130revs bought because i was fed up of being battered oop in the peaks, swapped my XtC over onto it.

grown to love the confidence of it on trails, even though its only 4", its got SOOO much grip and control with the right tyres 🙂

also have a Burly Hardtail, for Battering down shorter rides.

but kind of miss my XtC (which is currently pretty unused as a SS)
even in its lanky pingyness

Well yes, there is that point to consider druidh.
A good point well made 😉

Maverick- spot on, pretty much exactley what I'm finding- bought it with a redundancy pay off and can't afford to keep it in the standard which it was when I arrived or any standard really- LBS loves to remind me of this.

I've got a 575 and a Handjob.
Decision is usually made by how long the ride is – longer rides use the Yeti for comfort on me ol' back.
If it's wet or muddy I usually use the Handjob.
Funnily enough, I usually use the Yeti for XC races, just because it's more comfortable, more fun, and probably almost as light as the HJ. I'm sure it makes not a jot of difference to how well (or badly) I do in the race.
Not much help really, am I.

Variety, speed, more DH-y style trails, gears (HT run ss mostly)

FS is usually faster with my style of riding.

I can ride for longer on the susser.
simple.
Still love the hard tail though.

bought it with a redundancy pay off and can't afford to keep it in the standard which it was when I arrived or any standard really

Ah yes, I know this only too well… Having been made redundant twice in the last 15 months, and only having worked for 8 of those 15, whilst redundancy fortunately hasn't forced me to sell either of my full sus bikes, it has stopped me from keeping them on the trails somewhat! As it has also with my derailleur geared hardtail! In fact only been riding the Alfine'd bike recently… New job starting soon though, will return them all to rude health soon…

because it's there.

Service your rear shock yourself 🙂 Well seal service and oil – prob not required to do body internals that often anyway and for £50 + a pop over 4/5 yearsprob not worth it if you regulary replace seals and relube 🙂 Tis quite easy 🙂

Otherwise I have a HT and a Five and ride each equally 🙂

I dont get on with my HT on 5+ hour enduros in teh summer 😉

FS is kinder to my old knees and back

Maverick,

you sound like a kindred spirit.

Trying to explain to a mystified wife why you genuinly would rather have a working bike than a trip to a family wedding.

Backing away slowly from a ride after tearfully roling your bike into the garage to the sound of gritty bearings and a knakered BB knowing you can't afford to fix it.

Oh the shame! 😥

Foxy – thanks for the tip, I will try harder.

Well I've got a Santa Cruz Blur currently hibernating for the winter and I'm riding my Soul at the moment but I'm enjoying it that much I don't know when the Blur will be coming out to play at this rate 🙂

I can't for the life of me work out how getting a HT is cheaper than getting the shock serviced.

FS (for me) is faster.
I've won races in the past simply by being able to descend faster or sit down over bumpy terrain.
Doing an XC race at Fort William one year, I was neck and neck with another guy for most of the race, me on an FSR, him on some HT. There was one long flat section which was really bumpy, a horrible washboard surface and every lap I stayed sat down and pedalling and would gain 100yds which he'd then have to close down. I could climb as well as he could, he could descend better but my full sus let me keep up with him anyway. Final lap he was knackered after the closing gap thing every time and I beat him quite comfortably.

On a 24hr, it's noticeably more comfortable, it allows you to get away with those line choice mistakes that are inevitable at 4am after 12hrs on a bike!

Maverickboy – a little bird tells me you have a mild dose of gravel rash following a technical dab, is this true?

If you can't afford to fix it, you should be doing more maintenance to stop it wearing out.

I'm in a similar position, having been redundant for nearly a year. I've been almost exclusively on the HT since, and I've made it SS too. That said, I've still managed to finance a change in components to drop 6.5lbs from it.

The spangly FS bike (turner 5spot) has been the unfortunate donor to provide the income though. Thats actually got 3lbs heavier and less fn to ride too.

I use the HT for shorter smoother races and trailquests.
On longer and rougher races I prefer the FS because it is less tiring.
After a few hours I tend to loose the enthusiasm to stand up over the bumps and it's lot easier to just sit down and let the suspension do the work.

Maverickboy – a little bird tells me you have a mild dose of gravel rash following a technical dab, is this true?

The little bird is correct! It'll heal all well and good though, I've had far worse…

Maverick,

you sound like a kindred spirit.

Trying to explain to a mystified wife why you genuinly would rather have a working bike than a trip to a family wedding.

Backing away slowly from a ride after tearfully roling your bike into the garage to the sound of gritty bearings and a knakered BB knowing you can't afford to fix it.

LOL

Trust me, first pay cheque comes in and it's new bearing time all round, 2nd one and I think the Fox's on the Giant will be off for a service. Fortunately the Maverick forks I've got on 2 of my bikes are cheap and easy to self service.

If you can't afford to fix it, you should be doing more maintenance to stop it wearing out.

I'm in a similar position, having been redundant for nearly a year. I've been almost exclusively on the HT since, and I've made it SS too.

Fair point. Hence I got an Alfine hub… Which has been brilliant incidentally, save for the odd very steep climb and my little leggies struggling without the ease of a 22/32 bottom gear. Making me stronger too though!

read part of first post – even I can service the rear shock, so I'm sure anyone can!!

Just to echo the posts re: servicing, Phillips and I serviced my RP3 when it got stuck in the cold last year. First time either of us had done it. Took 15minutes and only cost a few quid in lube (we borrowed a strap-wrench from his dad).

As for my full-suss, all the usual stuff about comfort, grip and control.

The susser is there to sit in the cupboard whilst I take the HT out (or the big suss for DH)

poor thing 🙁

*feels guilty*

And when I do ride it after being on the HT I always near kill myself through getting carried away because it lets me get away with far to much on the XC stuff I ride.

In all honesty, I have thought several times about selling the trail susser, but I know as soon as I do, I'll be cursing. And I wouldn't get much for it anyway. I'd certainly not want any other bike for Snowdon Rangers, for example (or if I EVER manage to get up there again the big lakes stuff). I know it's all doable on the HT, but it's gonna be more fun on the susser.

I have a full suss because I want one, I have a hartdail too. I keep the full suss for best as enjoy riding my hardtail and in the current slop I like the fact it's currently singlespeed and very easy maintenance.

Nice to have a choice if you can. If I couldn't have a choice of owning two I would probably just go for a hardtail as it suits most of my riding best.

I built a hardtail a couple of years ago low budget for low maintenance reason. I now ride the hardtail 99% of the time which has developed into a full carbon GT which is a lovely bike to ride. I take the full suss out when it's bone dry. or when I go to wales and weekend trips away. I am even thinking of selling it on and sticking with the hardtail as I enjoy it so much. You can feel the trail rather thn blindly bouncing over it not having to pick lines or think about the ride. But it all depends on where you ride and the conditions. if you ride the lakes more often than not you can justify it I ride the chilts so no reason to have a bouncy rear end.

You can feel the trail rather thn blindly bouncing over it not having to pick lines

If you're not picking lines on your FS then you're not riding it properly (i.e. taking full advantage of the FS).

Just out of interest, has anyone got a favourite loop they time themselves around ?
Have you tried it on both HT and FS ? Which is quicker for you ?

I haven't, but it's one of the things I want to do to compare my 26" HT, 26" FS and 29" HT.

OK anyone got any tips for where I can get a guide on how to service the rear shock?

The manual for my manitou SPV shock only covers adding sag not stripping and cleaning, neither do any others I can find online.

All help greatfully received.

The HT is more involving I find; out of the saddle, more pro-active, and I've found my riding has come along well owning a HT. I actually use my calf muscles!

In the Peaks and rough XC routes I use the full sus'

Both as quick / slow as each other.

It'd depends on the local riding tbh. Here on the edge of the Chilterns (just) most of us seem to be on HT bikes.

because I ride heavy, I CAN ride light when I want to. but for the most part, I ride like a fat knack.

I also tend to go on all day rides deep into nowhere, so end up carrying a whole bunch of food & stuff in a pack, so a few inchs at backend helps from getting a compacted spine 😉

A history of back pain makes me ride FS most of the time, but I agree with the comments about control and grip as well as just comfort.

I like my hardtails, but I can't pretend they let me do some special pure sort of mountain biking that full-sus bikes don't.

Surely it means that you use less energy and can sit down and pedal over slightly rough stuff that you couldn't on a HT, I found at the gorrick yesterday I was standing up quite a bit even on flat sections that I wanted to sit down on to conserve energy.

Iain

I find FS more fun down hills. The launch it and sort it out approach ends in blood shed on my h/t.

Still love riding hard tails however, they are unrivaled for cut and pasting runs through the woods. Still like a big fork on the front however, but maybe I'm just a bit soft!

Neil

Comfort, my ageing body needs looking after 😀

I'm worried!! After buying my first full sus in November, are they really that expensive to run??

Probably already been said, but because it's faster over anything at all rough – even uphill. Biggest difference being that you can sit and pedal stuff you'd otherwise be standing for. That and comfort – stopped getting an aching back after long (5 hour+) continuous rides after I switched.