The concept of 'Rights' did originate with Paine but, not to take anything away from him, he did distil a lot of current ideas.

"It was the Russians who were messed up. I bet that gives all our American a warm feeling!"

Uuhh, I'm not sure where you got this idea from but without the Russians repelling and then defeating Germany on the Eastern front we'd all have been stuffed.

Oh, and 'Halloween' is a European celebration. The biggest debate is the extent to which it is rooted in pre-Christian/pagan practices. All America has done to it is to commodify it (as they do to most things they touch). I'm just sad we don't get to have proper bone-fires anymore – huge ritual fires at this time of year pre-date Mr Fawkes etc.

Baby showers? They can be a big help in offsetting a little of the expense of newborns whilst letting friends/rellies contribute without getting in the way for more than one night. What's the problem?

So only Jazz then which they can keep

Drac, how very dare you!!!

I give you

Jazz. Basically Roy Castle on Record Breakers but with extra twiddly bits. Honestly, they can keep it.

What's the problem?

the problem is some people feel blackmailed into going and buying stuff they can't really afford because it makes them look as if they are not as good friends as the people that do go, this blackmail is the basis of a lot of these rituals made up by companies to sell stuff

Wasn't the Magna Carta (an English charter of 1215) the first bill of human rights, ever..?

the problem is some people feel blackmailed into going and buying stuff they can't really afford

<shrugs> I guess that's up to the people having the baby shower – the basic rule to ours and any we've been involved in (well, that my missus has been to) is that everyone contributes what they can afford. Even a packet of baby wipes from the pound shop go a long way in an emergency. As long as it's made clear and the event isn't structured around the opening of gifts but swapping stories/experiences or whatever instead then no one needs to know what anyone's given except the recipients and the givers. And *everything* tends to be appreciated – except plastic pretend mobile phones that play the Crazy Frog theme. That's never going to be forgiven.

and everyone will remember who only gave the baby wipes too

nd everyone will remember who only gave the baby wipes too

Why? Who's going to know? Best way is to do it so no one know who gave what – open gifts after everyone has left. If people don't like everyone not knowing what they've given then tough shit, they've given for wrong reasons.

Or set a £5 cap on gifts. There's plenty of ways of doing it.
In my experience it seems as if baby showers are great for providing an emotional touchstone where the reality of the forthcoming birth can come to the fore, especially for first time mums and can overcome the sense of separation from friends/normality that can sometimes occur during pregnancy. Experiences shared, fears allayed, the whole birth thing given an arena for group discussion amongst friends etc – it can be really helpful. Like I said, only if the gift giving/opening is made the focus does it become a consumofest.

Like any 'occasion' it's all about what people make of it – if there's a bit of thought put into it can become whatever you want it to be not just what it 'should' be.

WTF is a 'Baby Shower'

I think its The Weather Girls comeback single………… follow up to 'It's Raining Men'……..

IGMC…….. 😉

Heathen woods are u Hallmarks UK sales manager or just live in a rose tinted world? These things are designed to pray on peoples insecurities, guilt tripping them into buying stuff, all that emotional clap trap is just playing into the marketing guys hands.

From what I remember, it was the Magna Carta that started off the whole concept of a person's "human rights". And last time I checked, that was an English idea.

Jazz. Basically Roy Castle on Record Breakers but with extra twiddly bits. Honestly, they can keep it.

Shocking – one of the greatest cultural developments of the 20th Century.

There is lots of bad jazz out there though I suppose.

Jazz…. mmm… nice!

Oh Yeh! Bad, Nazi, Baby Jazz!

Heathen woods are u Hallmarks UK sales manager or just live in a rose tinted world? These things are designed to pray on peoples insecurities, guilt tripping them into buying stuff, all that emotional clap trap is just playing into the marketing guys hands.

Lol, no way man, I'm a dirty hippy who wouldn't want a *thing* that's been marketed. It's just sometimes nice to get together with friends, have a chat, and, if they have one of life's landmarks approaching, help them out with a few things. That's not so bad, huh? If you think you have to start buying cards and stuff, well, step out of that world and walk away from it….