If it comes to a choice between the US "Special" Forces and a bunch of Terrorists I think I'd be better off with the Terrorists 
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Would you want the Americans to rescue you?
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Posted 1 year ago #
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its funny because its true
Posted 1 year ago # -
Any knowledge of the US Army for those informed opinions? (Call of Duty & the like doesnt count).
Posted 1 year ago # -
The latest on the story is that it is thought a grenade lobbed by one of the American rescuers is what actually killed the poor woman. I'm no military expert but surely trying to rescue somebody by chucking a grenade in their general direction is a stupid idea?
I think the 'Special' in American Special Forces is possibly short for special needs.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Any of you keyboard warriors have any idea of what you are talking about?
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think the 'Special' in American Special Forces is possibly short for special needs.
Is it the same "special" that's used in "special relationship" ?
You know, the one TB took us to war in Iraq for. That relationship.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I've been very pleased to see Americans on occasion. With the rise of Op New Dawn there will be no more Americans as first responders in my job and that's a massive loss.
Clearly being able to read things on the internet has made people experts in areas they clearly know nothing about.
Posted 1 year ago # -
If it comes to a choice between the US "Special" Forces and a bunch of Terrorists I think I'd be better off with the Terrorists
you should have volunteered to put your arse on the line & do the job for them - I'm sure they'd have appreciated the evening off.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'd rather be killed than tortured. But it is very unfortunate that the rescue went wrong I agree.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Any of you keyboard warriors have any idea of what you are talking about?
I know plenty of people who have served in the armed forces. Based on what they've told me about the yanks I think the best thing to do when around US armed forces is to make sure you are a very very long way away from them when the shooting starts as they tend to make a bit of a mess.
I think the fact that they may well have killed the very person they were meant to have been rescuing says it all...
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think the fact that they may well have killed the very person they were meant to have been rescuing says it all...
Only if you've already made a decision on the details before knowing anything more than the most basic facts...
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'd rather be killed than tortured. But it is very unfortunate that the rescue went wrong I agree.
You're right - utterly tragic. Yet the tragedy doesnt stop the asinine comments from some. If this is the case you had better believe that the soldier responsible is utterly devastated by whats happened. My thoughts are with the Family.
Only if you've already made a decision on the details before knowing anything more than the most basic facts..
+1
Posted 1 year ago # -
On balance, I'd rather be killed by my rescuers than killed by my captors.
Posted 1 year ago # -
You 'experts' may not have a high opinion of US Special Forces, which may or may not be justified, but the fact is they were prepared to die to rescue the hostage.
How many of you would do the same?Posted 1 year ago # -
I think for all time all such operations will now luck amateurish compared to the SAS actions in the Iranian hostage siege. But when you look at what they did there, it involved a massive slice of luck, that is rarely going to happen, if ever again.
And if you look at the SAS they have always been extremely secretive, at that point they where forced into the spotlight, but they then stepped back into the shadows. Who knows how many cock ups and calamities they have had without our knowledge.
I think the mistake the American military make is in trying to create a media image, in courting the media as they do they also highlight the mistakes. There may be something in the American psychi that causes that, an optimism that can cloud the possible negative outcomes.
Posted 1 year ago # -
you can stay here with the terrorists or we come get you, can't be sure how it will pan out mind you.
i know what i would choose.
Fekin shame it went wrong though.
Posted 1 year ago # -
i suppose it comes down to the risk that she was under, assuming that all avenues of negotiation had been exhuasted a rescue must have been the only option
i doubt we will ever know exactly what happens, unless ome footage makes its way onto wikileaks
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Who knows how many cock ups and calamities they have had without our knowledge.
Well if any of Brave-two-zero is actually realistic then the planning for their operation reeked of incompetence.
Posted 1 year ago # -
You know how in war/action films they say that something's risky and it could all go massively wrong but despite the inevitable things going wrong, everything still works out fine 99% of the time.
That's not like real life.
Posted 1 year ago # -
+1 for richmars.
shame but if you enter a war zone, you may get killed, sometimes by accident, i wouldn't fancy the odds of a rescue mission by any special
forces but it's better than being beaten half to death then skinned alive by the locals.Posted 1 year ago # -
does it sound like the troops were trying to cover up their own mistake
hence the suicide vest story that came out over the weekendhttp://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/10/11/uk.afghanistan.hostage.death/index.html?hpt=T1
The initial report on the rescue mission by the troops who carried it out did not mention throwing a grenade, but a follow-up report did, which "raised a lot of question about what killed" Norgrove, U.S. Air Force Capt. Gary Kirchner told CNN after Cameron spoke.Posted 1 year ago # -
On balance, I'd rather be killed by my rescuers than killed by my captors.
On balance, I'd rather not be killed, and never realised it was an either or situationPosted 1 year ago # -
Yeah americans or taliban, 'mericans every time. It would ahve been nice if it was the sas or even the french special forces as they are shit hot, or mossad, but americans will do me nicely thank you.
Posted 1 year ago # -
does it sound like the troops were trying to cover up their own mistake
Possibly. Or as often happens, in the rush to get a story out, chinese whispers takes hold - one reporter overhears someone say that it's normal for them to keep a suicide vest on the hostage so maybe that's what happened and next thing it's being reported as fact.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I wouldn't bother RepacK, any excuse to be racist towards Americans is taken up on this forum.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I've served alongside US troops (and the US Navy) in the past, and have found them to be very professional. Different in a lot of ways, but professional. I'm sure those above slating them have very often fast roped into a Taliban stronghold in the dark, laden with kit, not really knowing what to expect, come under accurate hostile fire from a determined enemy and risked their lives for a stranger.
Its unfortunate she was killed, but "No plan survives the first contact with the enemy" and its certainly not the US SF's fault.
Posted 1 year ago # -
BSB - Sorry, I'd assumed that "I'd rather not be killed but..." was a moot point.
Posted 1 year ago # -
would that be the embassy siege where one of our SAS was set alight by burning curtains while dangling from a rapel rope ?
Posted 1 year ago # -
racist towards Americans
when did 'American' become a race?when the white colonists arrived and started trampling the locals, or later on on this forum?
Posted 1 year ago # -
I wouldn't bother RepacK, any excuse to be racist towards Americans is taken up on this forum.
Its not just that, its all the armchair heroes who think they know something about an event that they have **** all knowledge of. I would bet my life that none of these critics of US Special Forces have ever been in a firefight themselves.
I've served alongside US troops (and the US Navy) in the past, and have found them to be very professional. Different in a lot of ways, but professional. I'm sure those above slating them have very often fast roped into a Taliban stronghold in the dark, laden with kit, not really knowing what to expect, come under accurate hostile fire from a determined enemy and risked their lives for a stranger.
Its unfortunate she was killed, but "No plan survives the first contact with the enemy" and its certainly not the US SF's fault.
Says it all really.
Posted 1 year ago # -
im not blaming the americans special forces
as far as i can tell the US command panicked when they thought she might be moved to pakistan where her value as a hostage and propaganda tool would be greatly increased
willy hague then agreed with the americans that it was best to send in the troopsthis despite the wishes of the negotiating team (and norgroves family) who were confident of a peaceful solution
distrust of the 2 wars and the troops involved is hardly surprising
lies from politicians to get us into iraq (and a complete failure of the opposition to question those lies)
images like abu graib (probably the defining image of america in iraq)
courts martial of troops abusing prisoners, rape, murder subsequent cover ups etc etcand then a change in the story about how she was killed
and you have echoes of de menezesthe war against terror hasnt done much to improve the public perception of the military or government
Posted 1 year ago # -
When I was in the Territorials, the general opinion of the National Guard was not that high.
However I will the be the first to admit that this is not exactly a sound base on which to make a comparison; obviously the NG and Delta et al are somewhat different animals.
My impression otherwise has always been that the US Special Forces are very competent. Maybe not up to the standards of the SAS and SBS, but very competent nonetheless. You don't get through something like SEAL or Delta selection (or even the Ranger course, come to that) without a great deal of self-discipline and military competency.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Clearly being able to read things on the internet has made people experts in areas they clearly know nothing about.
With respect, b0llocks, I think the defining feature of this war has been this deferring, "leave the military decisions to military men"/"God bless our boys too bad about the pinko politicians" attitude. People who are not in the army need to confidently challenge decisions made by soldiers for this war to be run effectively. In this respect Obama is doing a hell of a lot better than his predecessor.
In fact if you read around the subject, all the greatest wartime leaders (Churchill, Lincoln, etc.) were not afraid to engage with military decisions. You cannot neatly hive off the military sphere from the political sphere, unfortunately. Incidentally all the comments here about not using grenades to rescue her are right on, though not in the way that perhaps the commenters mean. The answer to this situation was engagement/negotiation with Elders, Taliban etc. It's not like "grenades were bad, but 5.62mm would have been alright". The kinetic solution was the wrong approach entirely.
Posted 1 year ago # -
jhw - well said, almost..
The answer to this situation was engagement/negotiation with Elders, Taliban etc. It's not like "grenades were bad, but 5.62mm would have been alright". The kinetic solution was the wrong approach entirely.
We dont have all the facts as you accurately stated so how do you draw the conclusion that the choice made was the wrong one? Are you privvy to some info others are not or is that just your opinion?
ps agree with pretty much everything else you say.
Posted 1 year ago #
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