Just seems like a microcosm of brand snobbery!

No. Specialized have won awards for their bikes with great reviews. Ergo the thinking is you could trust they have a knack now at developing how a bike rides?

The Carrera would be a 1k punt as there isn't the info out there or confidence in their product development. Unless you are allowed to take one out on the trails on a days trial from Halfords- Otherwise its sold as seen isn't it?

BTW- you can have the Pitch for alot cheaper than 1600 😉

Pitch vs Carrera
£1600 vs £950

If you have only £1000 – it's not a difficult connundrum.

http://www.leisurewheels.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b3s1p8538&rs=gb

http://www.bestbikeproducts.com/products.php?plid=m1b25s1p2029&rs=gb

http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/productDetails.asp?productID=21760

Bored now.

Fair enough, maybe imagine wasn't the best word to use tho!

To put another angle on it, I spent £2000 or so on my bike which was a hell of a lot of money for a bike in my book (and most definitely the wife's). I most definitely did NOT want a Spesh/Giant/Trek because I wanted to have something different from everyone else. That was just my perception, right or wrong. I didn't realise quite what everyone else was riding at that time. But then that's me all over. I bought Vestax decks when everyone else bought Technics (and regretted it might I add!).

Would I buy a Carrera? Yes.

I cannot believe the snobbery of some people on here.

Carrera – made by a machine in Taiwan and subsequently cheap
Santa Cruz – made by a machine in Taiwan, then has a 'designed in the US of A' sticker desplayed prominently on the frame. Hideously expensive

You lot are a marketing mans wet dream

because I wanted to have something different from everyone else

I dont understand that statement 😕

Hideously expensive

£700 brand new, anodised VPP with RP23 rear shock and two year UK warranty.

soma_rich, what don't you understand?

£700 for a frame or £950 for a whole bike with a decent spec. Makes £700 expensive no matter what acronyms you use.

I'd see it as £950 wasted though. Everyones perception of value is different.

If I only had a grand (lets face it- a thousand pounds is alot of money) I'd rather buy 2ndhand than on that. I'm like a few others on here- money is important and I don't have it in buckets hence most of my purchases are either used or in the sale.

BTW- I bought two pairs of All Saints jeans this week for £32 each. Probably the same price as M&S jeans.

You see my philosophy? Let me wallet punch above its weight.

I dont have a choice. I have to buy new I have a cyclescheme voucher.

I would agree and buy a much better second hand bike.

I wouldn't buy one because

A) It's just another lardy full susser that rewards you for winching it uphill with being able to go slighly faster on a bashy descent, and

B) Their brand managers felt the need to lean on a small Canadian company with a much better reputation for quality and integrity despite the almost total lack of overlap in their respective markets.

Hora – The operative word there hora is 'MANY' of your purchases. You change frames like I change underwear

Anyway – My Frames better than yours 😛

And I used to love my old Merida just because it offended you so much 😀

soma_rich isn't there anyone else who takes those vouchers? Does your work specify it has to be Halfords? If so I'd rather not bother- after all, your paying out for it yourself anyway at the end of the day?

http://www.on-one.co.uk/cycle-scheme

http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/CBOOCAR456TRAIL/carbon-456-trail

binners your argument is defunct as you became a Intense blingwhore! 😉

Mr Agreeable, to save me spending any more time browsing that link to find out what you're talking about, can you explain?
Ta

Its a fair cop. I bloody love my overpriced American frame 😀

I already have a 456. I didnt say I was getting the Banshee I said it was a good contender 😉

I am probably going to get a Proflex now. Is that brand any better than Carrera? :p

http://www.leisurewheels.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b3s1p8538&rs=gb

http://www.bestbikeproducts.com/products.php?plid=m1b25s1p2029&rs=gb

http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/productDetails.asp?productID=21760

Bored now

Top 2 are Pitch Comps witch have the shonkiest spec imaginable. The Carerra wipes the floor with it.
Bottom link is Cyclestore (where I got my Pitch, happen) selling them at RRP. 😕

I'd see it as £950 wasted though.

Why though? Back that up if you can, becasue you don't know diddly-squat about what you're dribbling on about! 😉

I think i've wasted too much effort caring about this. Some people would, some people wouldn't etc etc.

There's a Canadian co called Banshee who were set up by an ex-employee of a larger bike company a few years ago, and have a great reputation for making frames that bridge the gap between bombproof and useable, as well as some niche products like a long travel hardtail 29er and a women's-specific freeride frame. They're still pretty obscure in the UK, due in large part to having to change their name after legal threats from Halfords.

poppa agree. Two trains of thought. Peter Poddy seems to think hes tighter than me which rankles the most. 😆

Do you want me to wheel out my witnesses that can atest to my tightness Peter? 😉

Rich – You do have a choice – buy a "play" bike 2nd hand and buy a bike to commute to work with with the cycle scheme like wot its for…

Re Carrera – not sure I would but probably for snobbery reasons I have to admit. I've seen too many rusting abandoned hulks the weight of a small country in school bike sheds in my youth with "Carrera" just about visible through the blistered paintwork to take the brand seriously any more. Strangely Boardman bikes I don't have the same issue with (don't own one though) – maybe its because the brand only goes down to circa £500 bikes so the brand image is better. They have also been taken seriously enough to get reviewed in a lots mags etc. I must be a marketing man's wet dream!

I once had an interesting discussion with a design engineer working in a different industry with some similarities to the cycling industry. His argument was that the smaller "valued" brands knocking out kit what appears to be more expensive prices often had significant R&D costs to cover which the bigger "copy cat" boys coming in behind and undercutting their prices did not. He also explained how when he worked on designs for volume producers his focus was on fabrication to a cost and when compromises had to be made they were always made on the side of ease of manufacture at the expense of user experience. Working on seemingly similar products for high value clients the emphasis was nearly always the other way so welding up the product just so for a slight improvement in performance might add 3 more processes and increase the cost disproportionately in comparison to performance increase. 2 products that look virtually indistinguishable to the untrained eye could cost markedly different amounts to make – both well designed and both fabricated to similar standards but with differing priorities. I guess it depends what is important to you the consumer as to which you purchase – its all about diminishing returns.

So, to sum up:

We have a bike with a good review, that those who have ridden liked enough to recommend, that is made in the same factory as other 'trendier' brands.
We have a close-up picture of the frame showing that although it's not the best looking bike (Although not as ugly as a Jones or Ibis Mojo….) it's certainly neatly finished.
We know the geometry is decent, and close to the current thinking on a burly AM bike, and the design and tubing is arguably as good as any other manufacturer.
And it's deadly obvious the spec wipes the floor with anything at the same price and some bikes costing nearly twice as much

With the downsides being:

One person says the paint is soft and the bearings aren't too good

And, Hora doesn't like it because it says Carerra on the side….. That fact alone should mean they sell out in a week….

I can see the queues forming at the doors as I speak! 😛

He's as tight as a gnats chuff. As I meet him in the pub I know the opening statement will be "I've left my wallet at home'

I'm not joking either! For the record Hora: this is absolutely and utterly the worst offense that any bloke can ever commit! There. I've said it

And, Hora doesn't like it because it says Carerra on the side

You do know I own a On-one 456 don't you?? 😀

Peter Poddy seems to think hes tighter than me which rankles the most.

Sorry, post cross over.

I AM the original Pikey Biker. You won't beat me for finding cheap bits, so don't even try.

I recently bought a decent disc wheelset (Shimano hubs and WTB XC rims) for £5, which just needed a new freehub…… But I had a £110 DT Swiss hub I'd had lying around after buying it in a pair of wheels that included a Pro2 front for £40, so they are now on my Inbred.
Last time I replaced the drivetrain on said Inbred I got used rear hub, X7 rear mech, cassette and new chain and 3 chainrings for under £50.

I am Shonkmaster Flex and I rule supreme! 🙂

Peter my shoe laces are designed to relax at the point of crossing over a pub door threshold. At this point I become confused on shoelace retying.

At the bar one pint causes me amnesia about turns.

With the downsides being:

One person says the paint is soft and the bearings aren't too good

Not forgetting that you're buying a too heavy for XC, too light for DH bike that you will probably get sick of hauling round UK trails within a matter of months, and which has even less resale value than a normal full suss frame.

Plus your money is going to people who put nothing back into the sport (do they even sponsor a team?), take ethically dubious steps to protect their market share, and will probably stop making high-end mountain bikes in favour of the next craze a couple of years down the line.

He's as tight as a gnats chuff. As I meet him in the pub I know the opening statement will be "I've left my wallet at home'

PMSL!! Is that really true? I honestly don't remember that as I've met sooooo many people off here….

To be fair, I'm actually very generous with my time, helping people out, favours, giving stuff away, feeding people etc.

But cheap bike kit is a sport to me. When I know what I want, I'll wait MONTHS to get it dirt cheap, or buy stuff and squirrel it away for a rainy day…..
You should see my spares drawer right now…… It's like a tiny little bike shop in there!

I once took a £5 note to the pub on a Thursday evening (in the hope that I'd have one pint and be home early for tea as promised to the missus).

Mate took one look at the fiver that I'd turned up with and made sure this didnt happen.. (binners- you met him that Boxing day in Ambleside- Jason the loud Cumbrian lad).

The next morning I woke up face down on the bedroom carpet full clothed. I asked 'what happened'? Girlfriend said I staggered in and collapsed and refused to move.

soma_rich,

already have a 456? how about getting a road bike with your voucher?

Hora. I've never known you leave the house with more than a fiver. You must owe me the daily output of a small brewery by now

I could pay you back in hardcore gay sex?

We could copy this motion and have post-coital cigarettes?

Not forgetting that you're buying a too heavy for XC, too light for DH bike that you will probably get sick of hauling round UK trails within a matter of months, and which has even less resale value than a normal full suss frame

Rich's last bike was a Kona Coiler. Which he loved and rode like a man posessed, everywhere. Just becasue YOU think that, don't make it true! 🙂

I haven't got sick of my 34.5lb Pitch yet. I just use it where it's appropriate

And as for resale value, I'd bet you could sell the parts off and get a bigger %age back than on most off the shelf bikes…..
And remember, the most he can loose is £950, if he just throws it away.
And a £3000 bike will loose £1000 as soon as you turn the pedals on your first ride! 🙂

Me and Binners working out down the gym

Carrera make the best entry level mountain bikes around – this is good, it gets people hooked on our sport, creating consumers and users. How many people buy a Carrera, and then take their bike to halfords to buy their spares, get repairs done, and then in another two years, buys another Carrera?

Not many, probably. More likely, they buy a Carrera, use their LBS, then buy a £1500 Trek or whatever.

Mr Agreeable, I'm off for a blast round Ashton Court on my Carrera! Sorry for not helping on your Trail days, but you know what – I was a bit scared that people would look down on me cos of my bike. I'm disappointed to say that it looks as though I was right.

I was a bit scared that people would look down on me cos of my bike. I'm disappointed to say that it looks as though I was right.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Cutting remark of the month! That made me wince….

Me and binners on holiday in Andalucia 2011