Anyway, expensive bits, low price= cheap frame

Better get rid of my Cube then, cos the sum cost of the parts fitted basically means the frame must have cost a fiver.

Not convinced that all these £1200 plus frames are that much better than the cheaper ones.

Would I buy a Carrera? No it doesn't have Santa Cruz on it. Not that I am a snob. I still remember the times when Santa Cruz really only made single pivot frames with poor paint quality etc.

I am brand-loyal which is a different kettle of fish.

I am brand-loyal which is a different kettle of fish.

a new pair of RockShox forks every week without fail. 😉

Yes until I picked it up and realised that my back was about to go.

Bought a Carrera base model with disc brakes for 200 quid on sale. Went to get it and when picking it up realised that there wasn't a chance I was lifting it onto the car roof everytime I went away, so had to walk away.

Shame as I really wanted it, but I also learnt a lot more from building my own bike.

Would I buy one still, probably buy a Subway or a Banshee second hand.

the r&d point is an interesting one. A carrera will obviously have a tight budget for R&D, but it's probably 10x the size of a niche brand – ie those titanium 'jones' bikes – I doubt he's got much budget for r&d, and those 'man in a shed' brands (on one, ragley, etc) have the input of what, 1 rider? and probably little scope for testing prototypes as they're all made on the other side of the world, yet they seem to do ok?

some pics of the welding on a carrera below – i've not seen joins that neat on anything other than a cannondale, and the machined plate looks pretty nice..

BR review..

The Carrera Banshee is one of best examples we’ve tested of a £1,000 bike built for riders who like to ride into and through stuff instead of around it. Longish-travel bikes built for aggressive carefree riding are always going to be hard work on the ups, but it’s worth all that pain when downs are as much fun as they are on the Triple X.

The Banshee’s heat-treated 7005 tube frame boasts a nicely designed four-bar linkage set-up that – in conjunction with the RockShox Monarch 3.1 air shock and sealed bearings – provides a plush action. Your ride can be tuned by altering the shock’s air pressure and by making adjustments to the rebound damping and Floodgate dials.

The Floodgate system is designed to isolate pedal forces and weight shifts that you don’t want to compress the shock. It’s a useful way of making heavier long-travel bikes manageable on unforgiving climbs.

Structurally, the frame tubes are reinforced in all the right places, with a large open-backed gusset bridging from the base of the strengthened head tube to create a box-like section on the upper part of the down tube.

The top tube is also bridge-gusseted to the upper seat tube, with a forward facing slot and Allen-bolt clamp held out of the spray. The seat and chain stays offer lots of room for mud around big tyres and the whole rear sub-frame assembly, including the rocker linkage to the shock, is well constructed. So while the shock and fork do all the hard work, you just steer

a new pair of RockShox forks every week without fail

Until I tire of continuous product/design ****ups. Now I'm with Fox. 😀

That's a chuffin' nice looking frame I reckon. Lovely colour and looks well made too.

Isn't the Banshee the one where the tyre hits the seatube when it bottoms out?

Isn't the Santa Cruz Heckler the one where the chain hits the pivot if you use a 36t ring for double and bash? (Yes)

Aren't Cannondales the ones that used to snap all the time? (Yes)

Aren't Trek the ones that have had a problem with seatstays snapping (Yes, thread on STW!)

Aren't Fox the ones that wear the stanchions out in less than a year? (Yes)

Aren't USE the ones that made the lights that packed up all the time? (Yes. It took them 3 generations to get it right)

etc etc……

Until I tire of continuous product/design ****ups

Nowt wrong with any of them. Those Lyriks you sold me are superb! 🙂

The only reasons I wouldn't buy one are a) they don't yet make a drop barred 29er and maybe b) resale value due to uninformed idiots.
I do wonder how many of those who moan about rims being 100 grams to heavy are at a percet body weight them selves.
How many of them can really tell the differecne in suspensions designs. As the manufacturers all go differnt ways there must be different versions of correct or none at all.
Pure snobbish stupidity. Maybe the exact model doesn't have exactly what you want but realistically 99.9% don't realy know anyway.

Ironically those Lyriks are one of the things I bought off STW that were damaged and actually worked.

Previously Lyriks- 2steps failed twice and coil Lyriks (bought new)- Moco failed. Then theres the Pikes…

What are you getting then? Or have you changed your mind completely and seen something else?

those 'man in a shed' brands (on one, ragley, etc) have the input of what, 1 rider? and probably little scope for testing prototypes as they're all made on the other side of the world, yet they seem to do ok?

hmm

I must stop pretending to be a man in a shed, and actually tell people a bit more about what goes on :-/

Brant with his new hut for Ragley

A car version of the Carrera earlier

Quick coat of Hammerite and no one will know what it is anyway :-). Buy it, ride it for a while, if it's crap flog it and move on. Job done.

brant explains a bit more about what goes on;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-z5T8meC84

I'd say this is more the car version of a Carerra (Or a Boardman for that matter)

As in, borrows technology and design from other manufacturers, some people laugh at them and wouldn't bee seen dead with one, but is actually very solid and reliable. And the the wiser people know better…..
8)

I haven't read all this, as I'm working on Ragley Complete bike pricing actually, but something I think's been missed is "route to market" in all this.

Some brands go "direct" – Carrera is wholly owned, and sold only through Halfords, right? (I think) – so there are less people needing a margin.

ie: Factory >> Halfords >> Customer

Compare that to some bike companies.

Factory >> Brand >> Distributor >> Retailer >> Customer.

With everyone wanting a bit of pie, that explains why Boardman (Halfords own brand) are such stonking value.

Factory >> Brand >> Distributor >> Retailer >> Customer.

Nah

Factory >> Sprinkle of Mojo and Elf magic >> Distributor >> Retailer >> Customer.

I tell you what Hora, I'll get one of those Carreras and you can be on the Santa Cruz – race down Jacobs Ladder? Then we'll see where brand snobbishness loyalty gets you. 😉

Correction Pauls Cycles have not gone bust and I am now trying to buy this:

careful robdob, hora's a fast walker…

From someone in this post who's owned 2 Carreras…

And in a way I owe everything mountain biking's given me to those 2 supermarket bikes.

Isn't comparing Carrera to "supermarket bikes" exactly the snobbery we're talking about? 😀

I got to the end of this thread and someone had just said what I was thinking.

Buy a Carerra, then just like a Skoda driver, you'll ride around trying to justify how your bike is just as good as all of the decent brands, and you'll go on and on so much about it that you might even end up believing it yourself.

But most probably somewhere in the back of your mind you'll wonder what you could have been riding if you'd got an extra paper-round, saved up for a few more months and bought something else. And you'll think that every time you go in the shed and look at it, when really what you deserve to be thinking is 'that's MY bike that is, and I can't wait to get out and ride it'.

Be honest, if you really thought there was nothing wrong with it then you wouldn't think you had to justify buying it, the question wouldn't even enter your head.

As for Paul's Cycles, I would much rather buy a Carrera than a Proflex. Has anyone actually ridden a Proflex in the last 20 years? At least lots of us lot and the bike mags have ridden and rated Carreras.

Back to the original topic. Would I buy a Carrera?

No I wouldn't.

Just as I don't drive round in a Korean or Czech car. I couldn't give a rats-ass about the Jones's next door. I buy secondhand anyway. What bothers me is what appeals to ME.

Its not just form and function – when its your wage it comes down to a mix of the two. That Carrera reminds me of the old Trek Fuel X(?) frames. Exactly almost- they didnt do it for me either (test rode one).

Would you buy M&S jeans? Perfectly functional and probably comfier but **** wearing those.

I'm going to die one day. I don't want to leave c£300 extra in my will thanks.

Robdob- we all know I don't actually ride just live on STW 😉

Ps. I've got those Ultegra calipers in the car somewhere if you fancy them? Could drop them off in Marsh. No worries if not- the car has extra ballast!

Hora, have you ever ridden a Carrera? I had a '00 Fury, and it was one of the finest bikes I've ever had both in build quality, ride and components.

Admittedly this was a few years ago and the frame was a merida built frame with lx/xt components throughout, and the frame manufacture may have changed, but it was/is an exquisite bike. My bro has got it now and he loves it.

I had a 2001 Rocky Mountain Vertex. Gawd it was ace.

Driller, that's probably the worst reason I have ever heard for not buying a particular brand of bike. Are you really that insecure that this would bother you that much? Blimey.

And sometimes it's not just "an extra paper round" or saving up another month. I honestly could not afford any more than the £1k I paid for my Pitch and I had to sell an awful lot of stuff to afford it. I'm fiercly proud of it, just as I was of my £200 Emmelle I had as my first MTB. I would be very proud of that Carrera if it was mine. Perhaps the people on here who throw money they don't have, hiding purchases from SO's just to get the latest cool brand or upgrade to the boutique ofthe day manufacturer might learn a lesson from the Carrera owners.

Blimey, Rich, what have you started?

I'm sticking with my 'ugly' comment btw.

I see the Pitch in a completely different light to that Carrera. Rightly or wrongly I imagine it rides better than the Carrera.

Ps. Robdob- my frame and forks came in at less than a grand (brand new Santa Cruz Blur4x and almost new Fox 36 floats). The rest of my bike is seriously old. Well apart from my first new chainset in 6yrs (XT from on one two years ago) 😉

Be honest, if you really thought there was nothing wrong with it then you wouldn't think you had to justify buying it, the question wouldn't even enter your head.

I'll tell you what happened when I bought my Carerra, shall I?

I had a Cotic Roadrat. It wasn't quite right for what I wanted and it was p***ing me off something chronic because I kept getting punctures and it was a BITCH to get the back wheel out with gears, mudguards & rack….
So I flogged it for the same price I bought it for (£400) and went bike hunting. I was after an MTB-style commuter that I could also tour on this year, pulling a trailer. I looked at lots of bikes and considered them carefully, then went and bought a Carerra Subway One over all of them becasue it was just as well specced and £50+ cheaper. And you know what, although heavier (It will be with bigger wheels, tyres, beefier frame and forks and cheaper drivetrain) than the Cotic, I think it's a better bike. I prefer it, put it that way. Better riding position, more stable handling and not flexy like pasta when towing a trailer full of shopping…..

And it's not flash, it's covered in mudguards and panniers, so it's likely to be safe outside Tesco. 🙂

Yeah but it does get a similar amount of stick on here!!

Hora, yeah still want those calipers, been on holiday, sorry. Not in much tbh at the moment – I'll send you an email.

Eeek. Mixed reviews for proflex… and a tendency to crack?

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/show-us-your2009-proflex-768s

Rightly or wrongly I imagine it rides better than the Carrera.

Seems pretty lame.

poppa expand please.

Rockshox Monarch 3.1 – Not many reviews out there but from memory it wasn't sung about.

The forks – Im not even going to get started on those.

No mentions of any angles or BB height.

Bits and pieces aren't too bad however no mention at all on the wheels used.

Don't get me wrong – its probably a great starting point however its still a thousand pounds. I'd rather go with a Specialized- the people who will also have budget bits on their full builds however their frame (the core) you KNOW it'll be sorted and of a certain level.

Full stop.

Buy a Carerra, then just like a Skoda driver, you'll ride around trying to justify how your bike is just as good as all of the decent brands, and you'll go on and on so much about it that you might even end up believing it yourself.

But most probably somewhere in the back of your mind you'll wonder what you could have been riding if you'd got an extra paper-round, saved up for a few more months and bought something else. And you'll think that every time you go in the shed and look at it, when really what you deserve to be thinking is 'that's MY bike that is, and I can't wait to get out and ride it'.

What if you choose to spend less on bikes (or cars) than you can comfortably afford because you can see further than the stupid kind of 'my car defines me' thinking that this thread exemplifies in places 🙄

Price does not automatically equal function.

Just seems like a microcosm of brand snobbery! This might not be a valid assessment ( because I don't know your experience), but it sounds like you haven't ridden or researched into the Carrera, but have decided it won't ride as well as a pitch simply because you 'imagine' so, which sounds like a euphemism for prejudice.

EDIT: For all I know the Pitch is 100 times 'better' than the Carrerra – it's the dismissal of the Carrerra without any objective analysis that seems poor

I see the Pitch in a completely different light to that Carrera. Rightly or wrongly I imagine it rides better than the Carrera

I'd say it probably does, yes.

BUT

Remember me and Rob got our bikes for under a grand delivered, and the upgrade path I've taken mine on has cost me around £100-£200 (I've never added it up) with a bit of buying and selling to add an incredible amount of kit to it. Yes, I paid £300 for your Lyriks, but they only actually COST me £35 to upgrade….
(Right now I reckon I could nearly get back what I paid for mine, becasue I've been STUPIDLY careful with my money)

But a new Pitch is £1600…. (which to be frank I wouldn't pay)
Is it £650 better then a Carerra Banshee XXX?

No. It's not. Not even close.
Right now, at today's prices, I'd have the Carerra, no question. 🙂

Thats the thing. My budget is tight in fact most LBS dont stock a FS bike in my price range. Looking at Pauls cycles I have a large variety. I am going for the best spec I can get for the money. I will still have fun on the bike no doubt.

Its not all about the bike I just want as much as I can get for my money 🙂