So, perhaps stupidly, I test rode a top of the range Scott Foil last Sunday. Wow! it was different to my Alu (Cannondale) roadbike – it just made me want to pedal harder and harder and I went flying along.

Amazing sound too from the carbon. So, if I bought some decent carbon wheels, would that get me somewhere near the same feeling on my current bike?

The Foil is a top of the range, out and out aero race bike. It will have been built to be light and super stiff. It’ll take more than a set of carbon wheels to get that feeling on another bike. No doubt a set of nice wheels helps, especially if they’re a lot stiffer and lighter than your current set, but most of the difference will be in the frame.

was it just that the tires were significantly harder than on your bike…..

My carbon aero TT bike and road bike share the same wheels….

with them pumped up to TT pressures the road bike feels and sounds like the TT bike yknow VOOM VOOM VOOM as it bowls along – when they are at road pressures on the TT bike the TT bike doesnt feel/sound as fast.

but most of the difference will be in the frame.

+1 for this. Wheels and tyres will make a big difference but it’s arguable that over £1k for wheels (which almost all carbon examples will be) and you’re very much into the law of seriously diminishing returns.

I’ve also read some horror stories about carbon wheels, in particular carbon clinchers. I’m sure it’s no different to the horror stories that abound when carbon road frames first appeared.

well, the issue here is cost. if you buy a cheap pair of alu clinchers, with a deep carbon ‘fairing’ on them, they’re going to be heavier than your current wheels (probably). So if anything it will make you slower.

your other option is to buy from china, very cheap, fairly light full carbon clinchers for 300 quid. I got mine a few weeks ago and they are lovely…

well, the issue here is cost. if you buy a cheap pair of alu clinchers, with a deep carbon ‘fairing’ on them, they’re going to be heavier than your current wheels (probably). So if anything it will make you slower.

I read an article the other day which stated that above 15mph, the resistance force from weight is less than the resistance force from drag. The article was saying that outright lightness was only relevant for hilly routes where the effect of weight is magnified.

Just saying like… 😀

I have an aluminum Scott road bikes that’s around 5 years old, I’ve recently bought a carbon focus and the difference is night and day. The wheels I’m using on the focus are the ones I had on the scott for the last year – mavic kyserium sl, so the difference isn’t down to the wheels.

The focus feels so fast you almost have to reign it in.

I read an article the other day which stated that above 15mph, the resistance force from weight is less than the resistance force from drag.

As low as 15mph? 18mph is the figure I’ve heard bandied about before. Might start looking at some new wheels 😛

“I read an article the other day which stated that above 15mph, the resistance force from weight is less than the resistance force from drag. The article was saying that outright lightness was only relevant for hilly routes where the effect of weight is magnified.

Just saying like… “

was it in the dandy or the beano ?

hmmm. so its likely to be the frame rather than the wheels – oh well

in truth I dont know what the tyre pressures were on the foil. I usually ride at 120 psi on my bike.

but some Chinese “cheap, fairly light full carbon clinchers” sound tempting – any links?

I think it’s pretty well accepted that aero is more important than weight on road bikes in terms of speed – even on most climbs.

Frame and overall weight I would think. Lots of variables though.

You could always buy one of those hideous aero helmets I suppose, there’s a 15w saving right away.

Aero trumps weight everyday of the week.

http://www.cervelo.com/en/engineering/thinking-and-processes/weight-vs-aero.html

http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/The_age-old_debate__weight_vs__aerodynamics

Plus, the most obvious aerodynamic obstacle to riding along is sat on the bike, and it also happens to be the heaviest bit too…

was it in the dandy or the beano ?

No it was that new magazine called ‘Cyclist’….so not far off 😉

…and don’t discount the placebo effect.

New bar tape, shiny frame, new cables, just general blingy newness will affect your opinion to a great extent.

Forums are full of people who say ‘I’ve just bought some new wheels and they’ve made an immense difference to my speed/climbing ability, yet very few people post actual measured numbers to back this up.

So, if I bought some decent carbon wheels, would that get me somewhere near the same feeling on my current bike?

Thats all it is though, right?

Is it really worth it for several thousand pounds?

Depends on what wheels and frame you have now. A newish Caad frame with some decent carbon wheels should feel pretty sprightly, especially if you’ve got low-mid range OEM wheels on atm (probably 1700g+).

I would also advise looking into the potential issues with all-carbon clinchers so you can make an informed decision on whether cheap unbranded Chinese imports are a risk worth taking. For me they aren’t but at the same time I don’t think people are stupid for buying them, they’re certainly popular and people don’t seem to be having spectacular crashes through them failing.

Forums are full of people who say ‘I’ve just bought some new wheels and they’ve made an immense difference to my speed/climbing ability, yet very few people post actual measured numbers to back this up.

I would tend to agree with this, but last night I went out on my regular 26 miles circuit on my new bike and of the 11 Strava segments that make up that circuit, I posted PRs on 9 of them. Not sure by how much mind.

i assume the other 2 of them were into the headwind then 😉

Yep, I go quicker every time I buy a new bike too. 😉

i assume the other 2 of them were into the headwind then

LOL yes most likely.

well I think it made me faster, but I accept that probably the best thing to do would be for me the rider to get a bit more aero [and I’m lucky in that I have the potential for a few Kgs weight loss too :wink:)

so I could probably “beat” a few more riders in the sportives and the feeling would be good – worth £1000s? I dont know, but then I have splashed that sort of amount on other types of toys before

Is it really worth it for several thousand pounds?

£889 for these Zipp 60 but they are heavy buggers. But if you must have carbon and aero.

People would much rather buy deep section carbon wheels than work on riding with a flat back and tucked in elbows; I saw a chap last week on a Pinarello, deep sections, wearing baggy shorts over his tights, sitting almost bolt upright…

…Psst, you’re doing it wrong…

Well thats just it crikey, many people think buying the latest kit will make them fast but neglect the engine.

Go back and ask to test ride the wheels on your bike. The aero frame and wheels is apparently worth about 35 watts or about 0.5 mph above 19 mph. So you will go faster for the same effort. But not much 😉

(About to take delivery of a conventional Giant carbon frame with aero wheels)

“Well thats just it crikey, many people think buying the latest kit will make them fast but neglect the engine.”

i made not many friends by entering a local club open TT and coming 5th on a battered old giant OCR with tri bars slammed and tucked in with minimal frontal area i could get and still get power down up amongst the clubs big hitters.

they opted to slag me off between them selves without realising i was standing behind them was an aukward silence when i introduced my self.

not that event but the only picture i have of my in aero i can get lower but my knees hit my chest 😀 – reckon a skin suit – better number placement and a mushroom hat would have taken much more time off than my TT bike has – but it has let me get flatter by actually fitting me …. thats a shop demo merida in a 56…. Photo courtesy of crazylegs.

Mmm, I’ve been dropped and left for dead by a guy on his grandads bike, which only had 5 gears and steel rims. I’ve been dropped on a climb by a mad local triathlete/adventure racer who was wearing a parka.

It’s all about the engine.

wearing baggy shorts over his tights

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2g5Hz17C4is#t=6s[/video]

asterix – Member

hmmm. so its likely to be the frame rather than the wheels – oh well

in truth I dont know what the tyre pressures were on the foil. I usually ride at 120 psi on my bike.

but some Chinese “cheap, fairly light full carbon clinchers” sound tempting – any links?

I`m selling a brand new set of Chinese import 38mm carbon clinchers.
Ordered before realising they are not compatable with 11speed shimano 😳
Looking to cover what I paid for them (£300 & £36 import duty) .. or as close to!
3k matt black finish. Red novatek shimano 9/10 hubs with black spokes and red nipples. incluse 3 spare spokes, rim tape, skewers and two sets of carbon brake pads.
email in profile if interested.

Are the £££££’s really worth it?
You need to think what you need/want them for.

My ‘personal’ take on things is like this is. Forget the stats, they tend to be based on what a pro can produce with a set.
Have I got to live with them on days with howling cross winds.
Can I afford to use them, wear them out then bin them.
Do I do a lot of riding where speed comes from straight line efforts.
Will I climb a lot
I had a budget of 1K for a set of wheels that needed to come to life in short road races where you’re stopping and starting and twisting and turning. I chose bog standard low profile sub 1400g wheels. I’m tempted to go for a set of 50mm carbons now though as I’m seeking out far far longer races where they’ll come into their own. Not el cheapo China imports though.

Too late to edit or remove! wish I hadn’t written that now.

Yep, I go quicker every time I buy a new bike too.

wonder why Hora isn’t winning the tour?

For me i love knowing that I have a light bike , keeps me happy and that has a great effect on my riding
I tend to attack every little climb and crest
My wheels are not deep or carbon but they are only 1100 g