Viewing 26 posts - 1 through 26 (of 26 total)
  • Would A 10 Speed Rad Cage Derailleur Work With 11 Speed
  • chestercopperpot
    Free Member

    I know the shifter dictates the indexing and the movement of a derailleur is specifically optimised to speed and specified range.

    Is the modified position of the jockey wheels enough for it to work with 11 speed, has anyone tried it?

    dirtydog
    Free Member

    Don’t know, why would you, 11 speed mech is suitable for cassettes up to 46t?

    cookeaa
    Full Member

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    chestercopperpot
    Free Member

    dirtydog – Don’t know, why would you

    Because no need to buy a new derailleur to go from 10 to 11 speed.

    @ cookeaa – Nope. The opposite way round. Bear in mind it’s not a standard 10 speed mech it has been modified (Rad Cage) to work with extended range cassettes.

    chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    I think an 11 speed mech has to be able to move closer to the spokes to shift to the biggest sprocket – I don’t think a 10 speed mech has that range but you can check with the limit screws.

    chestercopperpot
    Free Member

    @ chiefgrooveguru – AFAIK a 10 speed cassette is the same width as an 11 speed, the sprockets being closer together. Therefore I doubt the distance a 10 speed mech can move will be a problem.

    It is a modified 10 speed mech with Rad Cage!

    Northwind
    Full Member

    It’s all about cable pull and I doubt the ratios are the same (if they were, people would use 10 speed mechs on smaller 11 speed blocks but I’ve never heard of doing that)

    chestercopperpot
    Free Member

    @ Northwind – Yup covered that in the first post and yes the pull ratio is different.

    So no one has tried it with a Rad Cage mech then?

    vincienup
    Free Member

    Don’t see what you would achieve by doing so.

    RADR cage (or any other cage mod) makes no difference to pull ratios, it just alters the positions of the jockeys – effectively altering the geo of the derailleur.

    It’d still move by the wrong amount in the Z plane, it would just be in a more suitable location in x,y planes.

    It might be possible to make it work but you’d be adding stacks of washers, taking up cable in a pulley arrangement etc…

    chestercopperpot
    Free Member

    vincienup – RADR cage (or any other cage mod) makes no difference to pull ratios, it just alters the positions of the jockeys – effectively altering the geo of the derailleur

    Exactly and I have at no point stated it did. But as you say the Rad Cage alters the geometry of the mech, hence the question of whether anyone has tried it or not.

    dirtydog
    Free Member

    Because no need to buy a new derailleur to go from 10 to 11 speed.

    Shifting will be compromised, Radr or not.

    chestercopperpot
    Free Member

    Maybe.

    Anyone tried it out.

    munrobiker
    Free Member

    I have run both Zee and XT 10 speed rear mechs on 11 speed Shimano set ups with no issues in terms of pull ratios.

    Zee is fine up to 42t on a hardtail but won’t work on a full susser.

    XT works fine up to 42t as standard, i modified mine with a longer b screw to do 46t. A RAD cage may eliminate the need for this.

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    sprocket pitches and cable pulls…

    Dynasis 10/11 appear to be different enough that its not a recommended shifting combo, but it might be bodge-able, who knows…

    OP you seem to actually be more interested in the radial clearance for the jockeys in a RAD cage relative to a 46t sprocket… correct?

    Seeing as One Up only ever went up to 42t for 10 speed and don’t seem to state either the RAD or RARr can go beyond 42t I would be inclined to say 42t is their limit. I don’t think many will have tried it TBH.

    Of course they have started doing their ‘Shark’ range of sprockets and cages now to allow you to stretch a 1×11 speed drive to accommodate a 50t sprocket… So Poor-mans ‘Eagle’ might be an option…

    chestercopperpot
    Free Member

    @ munrobiker – Works for you then.

    Will give it a go soon and see how it pans out.

    dantsw13
    Full Member

    I use an 11spd XT mech on my 1×10 setup with 11-42 sunrace cassette, as the pull ratios are the same, and the 11spd derrailleurs are designed to work with wide range cassettes. So I don’t think pull ratios will stop it working.

    lovewookie
    Full Member

    I use an 11spd XT mech on my 1×10 setup with 11-42 sunrace cassette, as the pull ratios are the same, and the 11spd derrailleurs are designed to work with wide range cassettes. So I don’t think pull ratios will stop it working.

    So 11spd rear mech and 10 spd shifter work OK on 10spd cassette?

    This would suggest that a 10 speed mech would work with an 11 speed shifter on an 11 speed cassette (probably non RAD caged could do 11-40T?)

    philstone
    Full Member

    I ran a Zee rear mech with a RADr cage on an 11 Speed SRAM cassette with an XTR 11sp shifter for a few months with no issues at all.

    Kamakazie
    Full Member

    I thought cable pull was determined by the shifter and thus would expect a 11sp shifter + 10sp mech to work on an 11sp cassette.

    The Rad cage would then help it work on wider range 11sp cassettes.

    I thought I’d seen an easy answer on this via Google….

    sargey2003
    Full Member

    I suspect it depends on the width of the chain – an 11 speed chain would be slightly narrower than a 10 speed, which may need narrower jockey wheels for optimum shifting – but if they’re narrow enough on your mech it’ll probably work fine.

    As stated earlier, pull ratio is entirely dictated by the shifter, so you’re good on that side with an 11 spd shifter.

    lovewookie
    Full Member

    I thought cable pull was determined by the shifter and thus would expect a 11sp shifter + 10sp mech to work on an 11sp cassette.

    The Rad cage would then help it work on wider range 11sp cassettes.

    I thought I’d seen an easy answer on this via Google….

    according to shimano, the cable to mech movement was a function of both the shifter and the mech geometry, and 11 speed mechs were different from 10.

    Apparently though, this is not true. which means if, like me, you like close spaced gears, I could swap out to an 11 speed MTB shifter, and 11 speed road cassette (11-32 for instance) and it’d work no problems.

    techsmechs
    Free Member

    No

    reggiegasket
    Free Member

    according to the specs listed above, the 10spd mech has a shift ratio of 1.2 (1.162 to be more precise) whereas the 11spd mech is 1.1 (1.083).

    Hence if you run a 10spd mech and a 11spd shifter it will move the mech 4.18mm per shift (1.162 x 3.6 = 4.18mm).

    The 11spd cassette (Sram or Shimano) has a sprocket pitch of 3.9mm, so under this scenario the mech will overshift by 0.28mm per shift. That’s 2.8mm out across the whole cassette, or about half a chain’s width.

    To me, that’s too much. But I haven’t tried it myself. My experience is that standard Shimano stuff slightly overshifts anyway, so any additional overshifting would be a bad idea.

    sargey2003
    Full Member

    Bear in mind that the link may refer to road shifting where the 10 spd & 11 spd cassettes use different freehub widths, whereas in MTB they’re the same width

    lovewookie
    Full Member

    The 11spd cassette (Sram or Shimano) has a sprocket pitch of 3.9mm, so under this scenario the mech will overshift by 0.28mm per shift. That’s 2.8mm out across the whole cassette, or about half a chain’s width.

    according to dantsw13, he’s doing it the other way round, and it works.

    Bear in mind that the link may refer to road shifting where the 10 spd & 11 spd cassettes use different freehub widths, whereas in MTB they’re the same width

    hang on, the cassette spacing is the same, the 11 speed MTB cassette can overhang the freehub as the sprocket is big (more clearance due to wheel dish). so you can shift a road 11 speed cassette using 11 spd mtb, providing your freehub is 11 speed road compatible.

    reggiegasket
    Free Member

    if you want it the other way round… (11spd mech on a 10spd shifter & cassette) then:

    if you run a 11spd mech and a 10spd shifter it will move the mech 3.68mm per shift (1.0833 x 3.4 = 3.68mm).

    The 10spd cassette (Sram or Shimano) has a sprocket pitch of 3.95mm, so under this scenario the mech will undershift by 0.27mm per shift. That’s 2.4mm out across the whole cassette, again about half a chain’s width.

    As I said, I think stock Shimano slightly overshifts anyway, so this 2.4mm undershift will probably be okay in reality.

    [freehub width is a different discussion]

Viewing 26 posts - 1 through 26 (of 26 total)

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