Although she was soundly defeated, the fact that she got to the last round and then got nearly 34% of vote, would suggest that France has some serious issues.

Could it ever happen here?

Personally I would think not. Despite the Tory success in the locals, UKIP were absolutely destroyed and the Tory’s are way more central than Le Pen.

I’d like to think not.

Given what Brexit unleashed possibly, you also have to remember the difference between a 2 person vote and voting for somebody, her 1st round figure sounded plausible.

I think the 34% figure is deceptive. @europeelects has put up some interesting graphics during the course of the election rounds which indicate that it’s not a general murmur of FN support throughout France, rather than regional partisan/historical undertones.

For example, first round results, might suggest a wider underlying FN problem,
Grey: Le Pen (FN-ENF)
Yellow: Macron (EM-*)
Blue: Fillon (LR-EPP)
Red: Mélenchon (FI-LEFT)

but in the second round once the “vote splitting” of Fillon and Melenchon had cleared away

and what was most telling was that there was not a shift towards Le Pen once others had dropped away, her support was solid, and consistent, but limited. And demonstrably only really in the NE region and also interestingly catholic/conservative Med.

Melenchon should hang his head though.

“We can’t really call this a choice,” Melenchon said. “The nature of the two candidates makes it impossible to come out of this with stability.”

“One because he’s the extreme of finance, the other because she’s the extreme right,”

There’s really no equivalence except in the mind of a fruitloop. Yes, the nation didnt need his endorsement to avoid voting in Le Pen, but it makes him look like a dick.

IMO if we’re going to be calling Jeremy Corbyn hard-left we should be calling Theresa May hard-right. UKIP have been destroyed because the Tories have lurched so far to the right. The supposed centre has shifted a long way.

the Tory’s are way more central than Le Pen.

You sure about that? I’m not seeing any major differences.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38321401

Yes. In a heartbeat. Sadly. 🙁

I think UKIP were destroyed because they were a one issue protest party which has done its job. I don’t anyone (beyond the seriously swivel-eyed) ever saw UKIP actually becoming the government.

Le Pen on the other hand seems to have done a remarkably good job of convincing more centrist voters that she is not “far right” whilst simultaneously holding onto support from the far right.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if someone could pull off the same trick in the UK.

How much of lepens support was a genuine belief and how much a hold your nose & protest vote?

She’s gone to great lengths to detoxify her party.

Her first round 20% is probably a more accurate picture.

IMO if we’re going to be calling Jeremy Corbyn hard-left we should be calling Theresa May hard-right. UKIP have been destroyed because the Tories have lurched so far to the right.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/is-marine-le-pen-really-far-right/

“you also have to remember the difference between a 2 person vote and voting for somebody”

This.

It’s pretty bizarre that in NE France where the regions rely on cross-border business (particularly in Lorraine) they’re voting overwhelmingly for someone who wouldn’t help them:

Priority for French nationals in jobs, housing, welfare;
extra tax on foreign workers and imports

All I see with this is a huge amount of tit for tat which would really work well for Germany and Belgium but poorly for Alsace-Lorraine in particular as cross-border working is a necessity. It’s ironic that the message that is getting to areas of highest unemployment is not one where they are told how damaging Le Pen’s policies could be to them but one where they feel she has their back. That said, it’s hardly a surprise given 2016’s elections.

However, for the OP, I absolutely believe that if the UK got down to candidates like Macron and LePen, plenty of British people would vote for the LePen candidate.

She’s gone to great lengths to detoxify her party.

Have a look, PR or actual detox? (Well detox in this case is probably as accurate as the scientific analysis of a fad detox)

How much of lepens support was a genuine belief and how much a hold your nose & protest vote?

Similar to the Brexit vote…

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/is-marine-le-pen-really-far-right/

What’s your point Stoner, that Marine Le Pen is actually not that right-wing just tainted by association with her father? Which kinda proves my point that her and TM aren’t that far apart.

that use of far-right and far-left labelling leaves little room to define what historically was genuinely far-right and far-left politics that make today’s lot look wishy-washy.

I wouldnt necessarily say TM and LP are “not that far apart” but can understand why you might. But I would say that if you call TM “Far-right” what on earth do you call Le Pen Sr?

re Stoners link

UKIP, FN, vote leave, Trump etc are smart enough to blow the dog whistle rather than be straight up racist (lets call them the alt-right)

It allows them to gather the support of the hardcore racist (far right) and and the honest patriot who doesnt like the way their country has changed (right wing) or those that just feel left behind (left wing or centerist)
PC culture, Globalisation, Immigration, Islam etc have been painted as the bogeymen of the alt-right, lumped together as a convenient pinata.

Sadly none of those things are the solution to the inequalities that are imho the root cause of their dissatisfaction.

that use of far-right and far-left labelling leaves little room to define what historically was genuinely far-right and far-left politics that make today’s lot look wishy-washy.

I wouldnt necessarily say TM and LP are “not that far apart” but can understand why you might. But I would say that if you call TM “Far-right” what on earth do you call Le Pen Sr?

I agree Stoner though I was using the term ‘hard left/right’ which to me (maybe wrongly) seems slightly less extreme but I do think it can equally well be applied to both the main parties in the UK (or neither). Both have shifted a fair way away from the centre.

It really depends on turn-out, but at the moment no under the current structure no.

We saw it time and again between 2005 and 2015 the ‘rise of UKIP’ era, okay they might not be the full FN, well until they think they’re behind closed doors and amongst friends anyway, but if you hard right of thinking and want to win – they’re who you’d vote for.

Their supporters and those of FN are very engaged, they will take any and all opportunities to vote and make their voice heard, where as most people who just want to get on with their life usually won’t bother. So the Euro Elections, which had an appalling turn out, they did well, local elections (not the most recent one) they didn’t well – they expected to do well in 2015, but for a General Election a lot more people will bother to vote and they pulled 12%, they’ll probably get less than half that next month.

That’s as close as they’ll ever get too, once a new party starts polling at their sort of level one of the big two with evolve to take their following back, as we’ve seen with the UKIP Lite current Tories.

The thing is, can you take Le Pen and FN at face value? As soon as the results were in she was talking about the next rebranding to make FN more acceptable, but it’s obvious that a lot of the party isn’t behind that, or are behind it until it gets them into power. So were people voting for the real animal or the semi-respectable veneer?

What’s interesting is that Hitler got about 34% of the vote in 1932 and look where that ended up….

What’s interesting is that Hitler got about 34% of the vote in 1932 and look where that ended up….

What was interesting about that was support for the Nazi Party was on the wane, the 33.1 was down from 37.2 a year earlier. Even when they suspended most civil liberties they were unable to win an absolute majority in parliament.

There’s a small window of opportunity for extremist parties, when economies hit the buffers, Adolf was lucky the establishment caved in and gave him the reigns of power when the German Economy was already starting to grow, another couple of years it might well have been a completely different story.

“What was interesting about that was support for the Nazi Party was on the wane, the 33.1 was down from 37.2 a year earlier. Even when they suspended most civil liberties they were unable to win an absolute majority in parliament.”

This. One of the BBC history podcasts covered the topic of Hitler’s ‘popularity’. 37pc when your private army has bullied the other parties out of existence is pretty piss poor.

If you can force yourself to read the comments sections in some Daily Mail stories or the comments some Facebook content it is clear that there are plenty of people around who would happily vote for a politician like Le-Pen. I doubt they make up 35% of voters though

The only person to be more soundly defeated in the final round of voting was Le Pen senior…

I think whats interesting is the people like Gove & Johnson were able to sell some pretty unpleasant ‘not overtly racist but….’ lies about Turkey joining the EU for example and then quietly slip back into the respectable Tory party after the referendum, even Zac Goldsmith wants another pop.

theres obviously a grey area between the alt-right and traditional right wing that canny politicians can operate in

If you can force yourself to read the comments sections in some Daily Mail stories or the comments some Facebook content

This is where the “bots” are working, unfortunately there are enough weak minded **** idiots who succumb to the peer pressure of the fake group. It reminds me of the anti cycling stupidity, some “journalist” writes anti-cycling bile click bate and it empowers morons to hate.

Seen from where I am Madame may is one step right-wing nationalist of Marine Le pen’s programme on the following.

Europe
The Euro
Freedom of movement
Health care
The benefits system
Taxation
The police state

Compare and make your own minds up.

Have a read. Tory policy is

Yep, more than 34% will be voting for Theresa May who in my view is not a lot different.

Yes, historically the FN were way right of Tories but they are pretty close these days.

Edukator – Reformed Troll

Seen from where I am Madame may is one step right-wing nationalist of Marine Le pen’s programme on the following.

No no no, Theresa May has taken the centre ground, don’t you know? Laura Kuennsberg says so.

(this is pretty interesting psychology, though- pretty much wherever the majority right are, they claim is the centre, and now pretty much wherever the left are, they claim as loony far left communism. Ed Miliband was a commie, Barack Obama was a commie, apparently Hilary Clinton was a “leftist”…

Meanwhile, the left generally aren’t that happy about being called far left when it’s untrue, but are quite happy to be the left.

Basically one side feels the desperate need to lie about what they are and the other doesn’t. Glad I’m on the side that doesn’t )

They would, in a heartbeat.

I think many of us prefer to ignore that racism and bigotry is far more prevalent than often perceived.

And it’s not just the right that’s guilty, particularly when it comes to prejudices against those with religious beliefs.

They would, in a heartbeat.

So why have the likes of the NF, BNP, EDL failed spectacularly when attempting to get elected?

If the UK is full of slobbering, racist bigots why didn’t they vote for them?

UKIP took 12.6% of the vote in 2015.

If the UK is full of slobbering, racist bigots why didn’t they vote for them?

Because there was something on offer that would suffice and doesn’t involve broadcasting their beliefs.

So why have the likes of the NF, BNP, EDL failed spectacularly when attempting to get elected?

If the UK is full of slobbering, racist bigots why didn’t they vote for them?

Because racism was/is their only policy, if they dressed it up with some other stuff on tax, education, the NHS etc like FN, then I suspect they would do equally as well.

UKIP took 12.6% of the vote in 2015.

So you think everyone who voted for UKIP is a racist?

That party may have some very unpleasant people involved but that doesn’t mean everyone who voted for them is a racist. Misguided possibly but not all racist.

As explained above, because they’re the unreformed face of the right. Le Pen succeeded in repositioning herself as being far more moderate than that (without necessarily really changing her views).

Do you think everybody who voted for Le Pen is?

Do you think everybody who voted for Le Pen is?

No probably not.

Well there you go then – yes a similar politician could get similar support here (including with relief from all those people who don’t like to think of themselves as racist).

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/long-labour-insist-tory-voters-evil-guarantee-party-will-lose/amp/

As so often illustrated by Northwind et al:

Calling Tories evil isn’t political thinking. It’s quasi-religious thinking, a puritanical division of the world into the saved true believers and the ideological damned.

And yet, those damned are part of the nation that Labour supposedly seeks to govern; more than that, Labour cannot govern unless it reclaims swing voters from the Tories.

This attitude – that the public has revealed itself to be Tory, and so deserves to get Toried right in the face – is both endemic and self-destructive.

When Nye Bevan called Tories “lower than vermin”, he was (at least notionally) talking about policy makers rather than voters; it was the Tory opposition who framed it as an insult against the electorate.

Now, some leftists are happy to take that Pyrrhic rhetorical step entirely on their own. They even wear it as a T-shirt.

the same applies to the “left’s” view of the be-courdroyed kippers, only they’re just 11/10 on the scale of racist evil bastards. All of them, because you know, it’s black n white innit.

Similar percentage to those who supported Brexit and that was led by LePen-esque figures, so yes could easily happen here.

Edit: actually I think LePen’s policies were actually less extreme than the Brexit campaign with its posters of people who weren’t white.