I work in manufacturing for a company that has 130 ish employees.
The company is approx 50-60 years old.
The problem is the maintenance/engineering department that I’m part of suffers from a general feeling of apathy. Everyone seems to just do enough but sometimes like today its not even that amount.
Most of the group are long timers and well set in their way.

Its got to a point where I’ve pretty much had enough of it as occasionally I need their support and its lacking hence I’m thinking of leaving, the problem is though is it a case of the grass being greener?

Job for life…. Worst idea ever.

Something like 20% of people are any use.

About 60% of people think they are part of the 20%.

I don’t know where you’d have to work to be surrounded by people who all feel motivated and appreciated. Some terrifying tech start-up bent on harvesting human organs to power the robotic overlords of the near-future probably.

🙂

I don’t know where you’d have to work to be surrounded by people who all feel motivated and appreciated.

Alone

Something like 20% of people are any use.

About 60% of people think they are part of the 20%.

And most of the 20% are actually in the 40%

Best phrase for work place importance.
Place your finger in a glass of water then take it out again.
Did the water leave a void where your finger was? Then you are irreplaceable.

When they replaced all Bar one of the board in a place I worked everything carried on.

And most of the 20% are actually in the 40%

True. Which, statistically speaking, is why it is possible for 100% of people to feel either (a) useless or (b) underappreciated.

🙂

Life is for living not working, I’m with the old timers, just do enough that I still have energy to live my real life, which isn’t the work one. Work is for recovering from outside work activities in!

I have worked at a company that sounds very similar to the OP, I tried all sorts but its 1 person against the rest so you never really get very far and if you do manage a few changes, its only a matter of time before it slips back again.

I left, I couldn’t see myself being there for another 30 years and I didn’t want their apathy to rub off on me. I still keep in contact with one of the guys. Nothing, and I mean nothing, has changed in the 8 odd years since I left.

Is this not the same in most engineering/maintenance departments?

Life is for living not working, I’m with the old timers, just do enough that I still have energy to live my real life, which isn’t the work one. Work is for recovering from outside work activities in!

^This doesn’t make sense at all. It’s depressing in the extreme! To quote Alan Watts:

‘What would you do, if money were no object’?

What? You’d rather use all your energy making money for someone else rather than for having fun?

I’m with rocketdog.

Left school at 16, worked all my life.

Its not to say that worklife means that you go in and do as little as possible, but for the majority of people they are going to work to support their families, and have a lifestyle they want outside of work.

Going into work each day is a means to achieve what you want in life, as work is a part of that.

But it is impossible to go in each day and give 100%, there will be a natural level at which individual rests.

Go into work, do your best, don’t get drawn into work being the most important activity in terms of absolute effort and commitment, just do a good days work.

All of my family have died within the last two years , Mother, Fater and brother – not one of them said that they wished they had spent more time and effort in work. They all said they wish they wished they had done other ( life) things.

Life’s for living, now retired, seem to have a life back, don’t miss work at all
Regards

Denis

I am no workaholic but if I am going to spend 40 hours a week somewhere, I want to know I am doing a good job, contributing and earning my money.

Sure it is making money for somebody else but in turn, this benefits me as I still have a job and can get increases and the odd bonus.

I am not talking about working 60 hour weeks and burning myself out, just being fair to my employer.

And most of the 20% are actually in the 40%

My head has just rolled off trying to calculate that. It’s early and I’m hungover. At work though, natch 😉

True. Which, statistically speaking, is why it is possible for 100% of people to feel either (a) useless or (b) underappreciated.

Is that because some people are giving 110%?

I’ve done my fair share of graft. Stupid hours, travelling all over the show.

Now I’m an old timer. I do my 35 hours and take my pay. My time (what’s left of it) is a precious commodity. You might find this attitude creeps up on you too.

slowoldman

+1

I’m 60 now, he speaks the truth
Regards

Denis

I think it varies from person to person, I think there’s a happy balance to be had though, that can be difficult to find though with many employers.

As some of you’ll know I’ve got a potentially life ending condition (not if I can help it thought) and I’ve not been to work since January but work does play on my mind at times sat here in hospital. I’d say I work in a similar environment to the Op lots who just don’t give a toss, cruise or actively drag their feet in some cases, and its really hard after a while when you want to do more. I’ve always worked to live but I’d like to have achieved more personally in work and feel i have strengths which are just ignored by my employers (I might be wrong and just be rubbish). The environment just doesn’t encourage it at all, not just immediate management but the company as a whole undervalue my departments potential IMO, sometimes deservedly so, but its a bit of a self for filling prophacy now, which is really disappointing. I’ve handed my notice in twice but they’d convinced me to stay and I’ve agreed each time partly because I’m a little risk avers but also work is so close to home and each time its been a longer commute and I didnt fully comit. My immediate boss is an awful manager, useless with people, and a complete inability to motivate or encourage anyone and IMO refuses to try to support development of anyone because unless you do his hours your not getting anything. He was very much married to work and is now divorced after his wife played away, kids are a bit messed up by the sounds of it too.

But I have to say work have been brilliant with me being ill, very supportive, absolutely no contact with my immediate boss thankfully (probably the most astute discision on a personal level hes ever made, either that or his boss who i deal with has told him to stay clear. probably the latter actually hes not that smart with people) but everyone else has been brilliant!
Once I’m cured I’ll get up to full strength and have a proper think about it but something has to change, it’s a shame but I’m likely to leave, I like a lot about my job but there are some really big issues for me which I just don’t think will ever change. I might have a complete change and post one of those complete career change advice threads

double post

I’ve done my fair share of graft. Stupid hours, travelling all over the show.

Now I’m an old timer. I do my 35 hours and take my pay. My time (what’s left of it) is a precious commodity. You might find this attitude creeps up on you too.

+1

I can meet all my objectives and keep the customers happy working about 35 hours a week, so I don’t see the point in flogging myself any harder.

What? You’d rather use all your energy making money for someone else rather than for having fun?

So many other options ie

– Working for self doing something you enjoy, making money for yourself and having fun. For instance I have a friend who is a carelenter and loves being a carpenter. He goes camping on hols and he makes rustic furniture on the campsite! Passion for something is underavalues

– Similarly, working for someone else doing something you like doing. They pay you, you still have fun on days off with your hard-earned dosh.

So many other options ie

– Working for self doing something you enjoy, making money for yourself and having fun. For instance I have a friend who is a carelenter and loves being a carpenter. He goes camping on hols and he makes rustic furniture on the campsite! Passion for something is underavalues

– Similarly, working for someone else doing something you like doing. They pay you, you still have fun on days off with your hard-earned dosh.

Option 3: Do your 35 hours in a cosy hole you’ve nibbled for yourself in the corporate hierarchy, in an office that’s a nice offroad cycle too with hot showers and a canteen. Reverse at home time. Work hard in your hours at work, and be well rewarded for it but keep the other hours of your life for more important things.

There are worse things in life then ‘dull’ when it comes to work 🙂

– Working for self doing something you enjoy, making money

I based my answer on the OPs post, not a dream world. I’ve been self employed, it’s not the nirvana everyone makes it out to be. My leisure time is more important to me & as I get older it only grows more important.
as for the making money being the motivation for everything, well I’m just not that sort of person thank goodness

It’s a tricky one, I’ve always looked upon super-motivated people with a mixture of jealousy and suspicion. Surely very few actually enjoy their job (as in would still do it if they didn’t need the money), I enjoy parts of my job but I’d be gone in a shot if I won the lottery.

So if I don’t really enjoy it where is my motivation supposed to come from? When I’m feeling apathetic at work I do sometimes remind myself I’m getting paid a decent salary for doing it and that allows me to live the way I do outside of work but that rarely motivates me to “go the extra mile”.

I did want to get into F1 years ago (IT not engineering/driving) but talking to a Lotus F1 IT guy gave me a wake up call on that – whilst the challenge is appealing I couldn’t see the team’s success being reward enough to motivate me to do the crazy amount of stuff they do in their job (vs being sat at a desk in a big IT corp like I am now).

So I think it’s probably human nature to end up doing the bare minimum in their job most of the time, the issue is some people’s idea of bare minimum really takes the piss (I don’t count watching YouTube videos all day as sufficient but then again if your mismanaged enough to allow you to do that then I can’t really blame you. I guess the fact I’m spending time on an Internet forum makes me a hypocrite anyway :p ).

I don’t know where you’d have to work to be surrounded by people who all feel motivated and appreciated

Hmmm, I hate to say it, but pre-2008 RBS was exactly like that, the Bank really did care about it’s employees, for example:

One of my mates had a heart attack, a nasty one too – the docs advised him to quit work immediately which would have meant a reduced pension as he was only 54 – he’s worked in RBS since he was 21 and could retire on a pretty good pension at 55. The Bank gave him 12 months sick-leave, let him keep his car for the remainder of it’s term (24 months or so) and his mobile phone – even though they knew he would retire on the day his sick leave ended.

Another chap had a drinking problem, he hid it reasonably well, but eventually he crashed his company car into a petrol station at 3 times the limit – he got banned of course, the Bank put him on Sick for 18 months to attend counselling and whatnot and when he returned to work they arranged for Taxis to get to work and meetings etc – sadly he relapsed not long after coming back, he said that he was okay at home, but work made him a drinker – he got pensioned off.

There are loads of other examples of people helped out legally when things went wrong, having their financial affairs taken care of on the quiet and generally being taken care of by the Bank in a crisis.

That coupled with Performance Related Pay or “bonuses” as the tabloids like to call them made for a pretty engaged, motivated staff – the closest thing we had to slackers were the sad cases who used to spread 8 hours work over 12 to look like they were “going the extra mile”.

Of course it was also a ruthless, aggressive, competitive mosh pit of a place with all the moral values of a vulture – but rough with the smooth and all that.

I don’t know where you’d have to work to be surrounded by people who all feel motivated

Half our Engineers in development are so far down the Autism spectrum that they love being at work interacting with a computer all day, it’s talking to people or having a social life which terrifies them!

Usual clap trap about not over doing it etc. But seriously if you think the days of being able to coast along delivering the bare minimum and not caring are going to around much longer good luck.

If there is one think that makes good people leave then it’s the slack cba cosy job lot. When your left with the coasters the business is in trouble.

Also working doesn’t just make money for somebody else it’s the thing that puts cash in your bank account. If you think the bare minimum is enough then watch your back.

The problem with the “just go into the office and coast it approach” is the fact that you still have to be in the office.
I think there are too options:
a) get a freelance role where you can work from anywhere and avoid the office for the rest of your days (my choice)
b) get an office job which is generally challenging and enjoyable (hard to find, but they are out there)

a) get a freelance role where you can work from anywhere and avoid the office for the rest of your days (my choice)

Waves while enjoying a beer in Jakarta after a long 6 days, just another couple then I’m enjoying some time off in Singapore on the way home and when I get back I’ll probably take the rest of the week off…

There is no coast in this job it’s on or off which is great when I go riding in the middle of the week.

Life is for living not working, I’m with the old timers, just do enough that I still have energy to live my real life, which isn’t the work one. Work is for recovering from outside work activities in!

Spot on

I could WFH but I don’t as if I did I know I’d do virtually nothing and just end up gardening / DIY. I quite like the structure of going to work in the morning etc.

Life is for living not working, I’m with the old timers, just do enough that I still have energy to live my real life, which isn’t the work one. Work is for recovering from outside work activities in!

Just to reiterate

Bullseye 😀

Life is for living not working, I’m with the old timers, just do enough

The problem is you don’t get to decide enough… Guessing when a new guy starts they get told to slow down so they don’t make the others look bad

Guessing when a new guy starts they get told to slow down so they don’t make the others look bad

If they’re young they’ll have enthusiasm and drive but lack wisdom, so they normally achieve less for more effort. One of the advantages of being old is you get a lot smarter about how to approach work and can achieve more for less.

It’s a balance footflaps, I didn’t say young….
In the places I’ve been that sound as institutionalised as the OP’s the older guys just worked out how to hide better bully the new and slack off…

I’m all for work smarter not harder up the new free time goes into doing more stuff for the company.

It also means that I don’t need to be old to be respected at what I do or in demand.

Plenty of countries average fewer work hours than us, but have higher productivity. We should be copying them.

I’m loving the level of traffic this thread is getting during the working day.

I’ll add it’s 6pm here….