hey all,

i’m not wanting to brag, or sound condescending, i’m just in a moral pickle and with it being late in the UK a fair few people I’d normally seek advice from are asleep.

kind of having a moral dillema, i’m coming to the end of a further degree in canada and following an interview on tuesday i’ve been offered a technical/research job in the oil sands industry into reclamation research. the pay is unquestionably good, as are the benefits with the job it would also allow me to settle in canada permanently which is something I have wanted to do (other than propose to the fiance – accomplished)

the job will be working in a research field looking to ‘fix’ the damage done by the oil sands, and return the tailings ponds as close in function to the natural system that existed previously. so…it has the right intentions but i am having a total headf*ck moral arguement with myself if i should even be doing it to begin with.

it is my first ‘real’ job as a graduate and beyond any payscale i’d ever imagine to achieve in the UK, i’ve been to fort mcmurray in past years and remember feeling pretty shocked at the sheer scale of the mining there.

have you ever taken on a job that leaves you with a sense of guilt?

i am really struggling with accepting or declining the offer, I am loathed to accept and then later quit as I can’t imagine it will look great when i go for future interviews. or should i just suck it up and accept that oil has to come from somewhere and it’s better destroying the canadian boreal and poisoning the athabasca river than it is oil coming from the middle east with childrens blood painted all over it.

thankyou ever wise STW, meekly, mrgibbons 😕

Take it. Sounds like you care about the environment which makes you a good person for the job.

I dont know enough to advise you on the moral quandary but at least you are having one so you are one of the good guys.
Can you do more good doing the job or not doing the job?
The other view is it will happen whatever you do so take their money
Sorry I cannot be more helpful

You’re over thinking this, sounds like you have an opportunity to put some of the wrongs to right, although probably limited by the amount of money the oil companies want to spend on putting it right. By not taking the job is that going to solve the problem of polluted rivers? No, they will just employ someone who maybe cares a little less than you do. I would take it, you can always look for other jobs later if its not working out.

This isn’t one of those joke allegories that people post up is it?

Anyhow, taking it at face value your quandary seems ridiculous. You’ve purposefully trained in a degree related to the oil industry, interviewed for a job and been suitably skilled and motivated to actually get it. And the problem is what? Remediation of tailing lakes presents moral questions due to the global oil industry? That’s the lamest moral pickle I’ve ever heard. It’s not like you’ll be mining blood diamonds.

The only person who can speak to your morality is you – but to an outsider it seems like you’ve made commitments to the industry to begin with and have gotten yourself a great opportunity. Congratulations, now get on with it man.

I had a similar moral quandary when I graduated. 6 months searching and first offer was in nuclear industry. Quandary didn’t last long; I needed the job and saw it as a way to build experience to get me in the industry I wanted, automotive. It helped it was the clean-up side of things as well.

Perhaps write pros and cons list, if the money and residency allow you to realise long term goal then it might be worth doing for a few years. Jobs are like women, you’ve got to be with some wrong uns so you appreciate when the right un comes along.

Why the argument? Tailings ponds currently exist. Reclaiming their space as a natural environment sounds a hugely positive thing to do.

That high wages are associated with the work is perhaps a function of environmental impact legislation (or just that it’s a hard job that requires the right person)… high wages are not by themselves in any way immoral.

I think it could look awesome on a future CV… getting oil from the tar sands is brutal on the environment and any work done to mitigate this is for the good.

Yes, oil money is paying your way but what of it? I must admit I don’t quite see where the problem is…

Jobs are like women, you’ve got to be with some wrong uns so you appreciate when the right un comes along.

some pay really well but the hours blow goats.

I think the others pretty well summed up your dilemma, but what about the practicalities – do you really want to live in Ft.Mac?
In my experience quality of life is location, location, location. The amount of money you earn is secondary.

A happy underpaid Vancouverite.

As a first job offer it sounds great. You don’t have to do it forever.

i’m not wanting to brag, or sound condescending

Yeeah right.

have you ever taken on a job that leaves you with a sense of guilt?

No.

Youisyoungtwat.

Having just today handed in my notice and accepted a job in mining on the other side of the world I know that it’s a massive decision.

What you have to think about is: what are the other options?

Back in the UK work is more scarce for engineers and researchers alike.

My view would be as a first job if it gets you good experience in your field then it’s invaluable. As others have said you don’t have to do it forever. However the experience and how it looks on your CV could be the difference later on of getting a job you really want.

On the moral said at least its the mitigation aspect and less the exploitation aspect. You can always do it get the experience and training and then use that to do something you are more morally comfortable with.

If the money is that good, then use it wisely, don’t look at it as suddenly being rich (which I can understand after years in education). Take the money be frugal, save and use it to move / relocate / do something you ARE really passionate about.

As I said to myself today before I signed the contracted and handed in my notice before I went crazy thinking about it:

Its better to regret something you have done, than regret something you didn’t do and always wonder.

This isn’t one of those joke allegories that people post up is it?

Anyhow, taking it at face value your quandary seems ridiculous. You’ve purposefully trained in a degree related to the oil industry, interviewed for a job and been suitably skilled and motivated to actually get it. And the problem is what? Remediation of tailing lakes presents moral questions due to the global oil industry? That’s the lamest moral pickle I’ve ever heard. It’s not like you’ll be mining blood diamonds.

not a joke no, i formally trained in hydrology, although i found the technical aspects more enjoyable than the base science itself. working in the oilsands never came into it when i started, i was offered a masters, somehow qualified for funding so i took it, i graduated undergrad just as shit hit the fan and all my friends who graduated the year before had their graduate job offers recinded. the thing is i wasn’t motivated to apply for the job, i thought i had the worst interview ever, but they didn’t seem too bothered. it just happened that alot of my own research work in a completely unrelated topic crosses over with what they’re trying to do.

richpips – thanks, but no i’m not, but thanks again for reminding me why i rarely post on here, my sister has just lost her job after the LEA she works for was told it had lost 50% of it’s budget, and my other sister has taken on the workload of two other teachers who were ‘urged’ to take early retirement because of budget restraints. thanks for being a dick all the same.

Is the damage done by oil mining in the Canadian sands morally wrong? Probably.

Is it going to continue to happen anyway? Definitely.

Is offering you, a qualified person, a good wage to work to help repair some of the wrongs a good idea? HELL YES!

As someone in a position of intellectual property and moral high ground, you should be happy to accept the job on a pittance of pay, knowing you’re helping to put right some of the wrongs. The fact they want to pay you loads of money… Well, do you need a slap round the face?

Really wishing I’d done some kind of geology or geo-technology degree now, knowing people as I do with interesting jobs, earning lots of money, and travelling the world right now.

It has been said here – this will happen anyway and you are going to play a part in reducing the damage done. Morally good. Fill your boots and don’t look back.

It’s a difficult decision and one that I had to make a few years back.

Yes, it’s working to mitigate the effects of oil extraction & production which is all good.

But, and it’s a big but, it’s still working in the industry and working for an oil company. I worked for a large norwegian company in their health, safety and environmental management team. The only reason the majors take these issues seriously is because it costs them money and reputational damage if they don’t. No more, no less. It’s easy to be cynical I suppose but I found it impossible to square away my personal opinions in relation to my work. So I left and went into the public sector (great move eh?) where I felt that my efforts would directly benefit people rather than shareholders. Whatever job you decide on will benefit someone else, it’s a case of deciding who that is and whether or not you are comfortable with that.

I reckon you should steer well clear to be honest.

It doesn’t matter if you take the job or not: we are all morally implicated in the destruction of the world’s ecosystems, as all us westerners use copious amounts of oil in every aspect of our lives. That needs to fundamentally change, and I’m afraid I don’t think your new job is going to sort that essential problem in the slightest.

Not read all the previous posts but heres my 2p
You are putting the sands back as near to normal so why are you having a moral dilemma.(surely its better to have someone like you who cares about the planet than someone who is only qualified but does not really care) Besides if you do not do it someone else will and if the jobs shit stick it a few years till you are established and then move on.

A more polluting way of producing oil products has yet to be found. The energy needed to extract the oil gives oil-sand oil a huge carbon footprint.

Most people have to prostitute themselves to earn a living. This job is the equivalent of being a rent boy when it’s not that difficult to find work massaging female athletes.

as a geologist working in the oil business I can honestly say that I have zero problem taking money from Oil companies.

do the job, take the money, try your best and if it sucks leave after you have got some good experience.

take the job.

you’ll be helping to repair the damage that the rest of us are responsible for.

(we all want oil, but most of us don’t care where it comes from, i live in the uk but the damage done to Canada is as much my fault* as anyone who works for the oil companies)

(*and everyone elses)

Do the job, get the experience, get out of canada into the desert and get some real tax free money.

Go for it, at least you’re involved in repairing the inevitable damage. Do a few years and then decide if you have enough saved up to do something else if you feel strongly enough about it.

Do you want to make a difference?

Can you do it without working in the industry?

These are the questions that I asked myself before taking a job with a massive corp in the oil industry. That job sucked, as I realsed that all I was doing was maintaining the status quo. So I quit, worked in the public sector for a year (that was rubbish too) and then went back into oil and gas, only working for a small company developing a product that will (hopefully) make a massive change to HS&E in the industry, and I love it.

I guess what this rambling post is trying to say is: Take it if you want to make a difference and will be in a position to make a difference.

mrgibbons . I can understand your dilemma . My first reaction went with the majority on here take the money and experience and help put right some of the damage. The more i think about this though the more i side with the opposite view .

How much real difference will this post actually make? Will you have the power to make the environmental impact neutral or substantially redress the ballance or will your post just amount to green-wash?

My worry would be whether or not the post would be a fig leaf for the company to continue in an ultimately devastating direction.

Nice reply to Richpips, MrGibbons. Made me laugh. 🙂

Can you get me a job in quality management when you’ve been there for a few months please. 😀

Just remember why you are doing it and don’t allow yourself to get so fat and comfortable in the job that you wouldn’t be prepared to walk when they ask you to do something that you feel crosses the line.

Sounds awesome… why on earth are you even thinking about not taking it?

The only way to save this world from your carbon footprint is to top yourself… and even then there will be a carbon legacy

Student ideals versus reality, ho hum

Maybe take a gap year feeding orphans instead

Someone I used to work with worked on missile guidance technology. He slept fine at night knowing he was reducing the number of accidental deaths. I’d say this was a similar situation and I’d be fine working in it, it’d going to happen without you but you’re ideally placed to help reduce the damage.