Just heard wind that there may be an opportunity for me to get a permanent contract within the company with one caveat – transferring to Switzerland, either Geneva or Basel.

What's the tax situation like there for people working abroad (I'd being a Swiss taxpaper, I assume)? Living costs? Things that are unexpectedly different from the UK? I speak French, but assume that I'd need to learn German too.

Cheers,

Dave.

In Geneva you're handy for Verbier, Dorenaz etc etc – really that's all you need to know.

Diatribe coming up, sorry!

Hi Dave,

I moved over here (Basel) 3 years ago with my family (wife and young kids), and, first comment, we absolutely love living here. It is ridiculously safe (crime, cycling, kids etc etc), very high standard of living, very nice countryside (biking and skiing are obvious standouts!).

I am on a local contract (i.e. swiss).

It is not for everyone however. It seems to be a bit marmite. Compare it to running a 29er rigid SS. Not for everyone, but for those who like it it is great. Others hate it.

I suggest you look at http://www.englishforum.ch/

Also if you have any Qs, feel free to email me. I am sure others will chip in also.

Tax = much less (I think about 16% for me, but it varies canton to canton. And if you are a super high earner you can negotiate your rates with cantons to choose where to live) 🙄

However – 👿

Cost of living = ridiculously high. You do not ever think 'oooh, I've got low tax and loads of free cash. Everything costs ALOT more. First is health insurance, which pretty much negates any tax savings. You can get cheap insurance, but you will 'pay' for it at somepoint.

insurance in general is not cheap, car, household/house, personal are expensive and I think personal is a legal requirement.

They giveth with one hand, and taketh away with the other! 😆

It is very dificult to find ways around any of the systems e.g. tax, housing, and you ahve to accept they are totally infelxible (with very few exceptions). However they are noramlly very fair.

Big standout for us recently has been dentist costs. Holy-f'ing-moly. 5K for root canal and a crown. Jesus. My wife needs three done, so we're flying the whole family back to the UK to get it done as it's about 1/5 the price.

Everything else from groceries to cars are comically more expensive.

Langauge – German in thenorth, French in the south west, Italian in the south east. English is 4th language, but if you speak french you'll be laughing. Also, and no offence to German speakers, it is a most unpleasant languge to speak compared to French!

It is very strange moving to another country, this being true of moving anywhere I guess, and it takes you a while to stop thinking 'british' (if ever!), but you will adapt to the Swiss rhythms and then you start to really 'get it'. There will deffo be a bit of a culture shock.

Can I now say some of the wee things I love (that some might hate!), and this is certainly true in Basel but often most of CH:

It is not a 'showy' culture – they say the swiss also wear fur coats, but have the fur on the inside

It is not a big consumer culture. Most shops closed at 4pm Saturday, some open Monday (not all), NOTHING on Sunday (except bakers). Almost everything stops for lunch. This takes a while to get used to, but as everything is so frickin expensive it might be blessing! We also love this as it means you spend most of your free time doing family stuff. Initially this was forced as there was nowt else to do, but now it is something I absolutely treasure and hope they never change.

Gartenbads- these are the 'Garden Swimming Pools' that up here almost every village has, and they are almost indescribably beautiful. Wonderful places that we spend much of our summer.

Pulic transport – I drive like once every 3 weeks. ride to work, we use the trams, buses and trains for most everything else. Amazing value.

Groceries tend to be mostly local, even in supermarkets, which means stuff is fresh, still muddy, and very tasty. very little flown round the world produce.

The alps. End of.

😀

Kev

Just escaped after a year in Berne. I would recommend avoiding that city, it is more like a large town.

Generalisation such as Swiss are dull, unimaginative, conservative and narrow minded seem fairly accurate although obviously there are exceptions.

I was commuting weekly so didn't really get the whole living there experience but as B S N says, it is stupidly expensive. 9CHR for a Toblerone in Switz and 3 for £9 in Tesco in the UK. I was sat in a bar opposite the original Toblerone factory when I discovered this.

The group of people I met and got on with in the local bar in the evening were Bulgarian, Finnish, Hungarian, French and Swiss French.

Generalisation such as Swiss are dull, unimaginative, conservative and narrow minded seem fairly accurate although obviously there are exceptions.

erm, yes, that is definitely also true. One might even go as far as to say 'comically right wing'.

Should mention, that as BBB says, there is a large an vibrant ex-pat community of all flavours. Feels a bit like being a fresher at uni as you are a bunch of people all thrown into the same melting pot.

Kev

(Partial Hijack)
I don't live in CH but have similarly talked to lots of expats from several countries in Basel and all seem to enjoy it, as does Kev / BSN.
It's conservative but liberal, IYSWIM.

Are you in pharma, Kev?

I would take what BBB says with a pinch of salt but – as he says he never actually lived in Switzerland, just in hotels bars and airports and seemed to spend all that year on here whining about it.

anyway…I live not that far from Lausanne – been here also 3 yrs and I personally wouldnt go back to live in the UK.

if you're in Geneve then french & english normally suffice..Basel and you'll be needing the german.

Scotia – I did say that I was only there during the week. I had an apartment for the last 6 months there. The reasons I whined were 1 – Missing wife and family, 2 – the points made in my post

English is 4th language

I thought it was Romansh?

I spent some time living in Schweitz and found the experience a positive one overall. The fact that it was at 1600m and at the foot of the Matterhorn may have influenced this though.

Generalisation such as Swiss are dull, unimaginative, conservative and narrow minded seem fairly accurate although obviously there are exceptions.

sounds like STW

yes bbb i remember why you whined…nobody could miss it..

If you've not been for more than a few days before I would suggest an extended visit if possible to try and get a taste of the culture. Having been there a bit my view is that is a nice place to visit but I would not want to live there, the culture as described does not really fit with me very well. Very anal, to the point of (IMO) madness.

Could you live in France? Not exactly far from Geneva and would perhaps make the cost of living a lot cheaper. If you have a choice it has to be Geneva though surely, as the lifestyle that the surrounding terrain and weather provides is amazing.

Live in France like willsimmons says. 20 minute drive to the border.

When my mom was transferred to CERN for a little while, she lived in France because the cost of living is so much lower. But then again, she didn't have to pay the French taxes…

We where in Geneva for over a year, and overall was a positive experience, and yes of course the mountain biking is amazing. Not to be too negative, but in the end the simply eye bleeding cost of living got to be too much, and we jumped at the chance of a transfer to cheaper shores…

I just couldnt quite get my head around the fact that despite earning serious money in shipping, along with all the stress that comes with that, we where living a very basic life and would probably never buy the kind of house we wanted, for example; where we rented, the next door neighbours had been given CHF 350,000 by their parents as a DEPOSIT on the house…

CHF 350,000 is about £220,000 for anybody watching in black and white…

And yeah, I lived with a tooth ache for weeks once until the next UK visit, as I could buy a new bike with the change compared to getting it fixed locally!

So keep on renting, I couldn't buy a house in Britain, I now can't realisticly buy a house here in Germany, but here I am not presured to buy.

scotia: Where abouts? I live in Rolle and work in Ouchy. Drop me a line at robert(dot)hamiltonsmith(at)gmail.com

Flaperon. Do it. Uk sucks, europe WINS. You'll miss the banter at work maybe but everything else is better. Happy to chat so drop me a line

also in CH there is no real outstanding reason for buying a house. Tax is funny. You can borrow money against your deuxieme/troixeime pillar to put money down for your 20% deposit.

If you come to Switzerland don't expect it to be like the UK ok…Thats why most brits whinge…brits whinge about most things (See STW :))

RHSno2… agree to a point… but paying CHF thousands a month in rent gets old, and no getting away from the fact that even a very small house will cost millions…

Aye, tis different. House thing hasn't bothered me as they do not really accumulate value much either. Prices pretty stable so it is not an investment like the UK, but you do get tax breaks as mentioned above. Swings and round-abouts really.

We are thinking about buying in France now, just over the border, as it is getting a little frustrating paying the eye watering rent. Not for investment reasons, just because we really want our own place again.

I'm sure this is true of lot's of places in the UK, but it is also a really 'outdoorsy' culture. weekends in the forests with the kids at a grillplatz (council run picnic areas in the middle of nowhere with big permanent BBQs and freshly chopped dry logs) grilling some cervelas. Even in winter this is great fun.

anyway, as I said above, it is a very 'marmite' place, and you won't know till you try it, and if you don't you'll may regret never finding out.

Do it!

Again, two words: the alps.
😀

Kev

'but you do get tax breaks as mentioned above'

No, i thought you get penalised! i.e. taxed on its rentable value?

Millions. Maybe. But depends where you are looking? As I say, you can borrow from your LDP or whatever it is for deposit and then rest of 80% is cheap 'renting'…HOw much cheaper over in France? I agree about having own place though…I want a place up nr jura. Road biking, spot of MTB, xc ski in winter and a short drive to Proper mountains on weekends.

NOt Just the Alps btw…Jura and Pre-Alps AND Lac Leman AND a half days drive to a gazillion places such as Italy, Med, Provence, Austria, Eastern part of Switz…oh and the UK if you would ever want to return

BBB: Thanks for insulting myself and my entire family with your first post! or perhaps we fall into the exception category!

theyEye: if you mean income tax, then it is cheap in France compared to the UK. A very common brit misconception of France.

If it was me, id' go for 'french' switzerland rather than 'german' switzerland.

'Generalisation such as Swiss are dull, unimaginative, conservative and narrow minded seem fairly accurate although obviously there are exceptions.'

I concur…

I'll run that by my family next week and see what they come up with regarding the british 😀

You wanna read it again? Add in 'easily offended' ….

Been a CH taxpayer for 9 years now.

The people narrow-minded?… I can see why Brits say that about Swiss but a harsh over-generalisation IMO.

Conservative? … no more than Britain… and if you think I'm wrong, come and spend some time here in Kleinbasel.

As in all countries, there are a broad spectrum of people. Seek out the types that you want to mix with. Easy.

p.s. to the original poster, do it, it's better than the UK in the majority of respects