An interesting radio debate the other day which I thought might be worth continuing on STW.

So, it would appear to be a generalisation in the UK that employees consider/feel they have to working some amount of “free” time, or time not dictated by their contracts in order to fulfil career advancement, a raise or the respect of their peers and/or managers.

One side of the argument states that as such we are giving our precious time which could be spent with our families and on our hobbies to the higher echelons who actually do not always work in the same ratio of time worked vs take home pay/benefits. Why then would you work a free hour to line someone else’s pocket?

In addition, there is possibly a negative perception on those that do work to contracted hours – the typical comment such as “half day then?” or promotion of one employee perceived to be working longer than another.

Certainly as we grow up and have families out time becomes more valuable to us but equally although money is not the answer to everything, more of it can help life be more pleasant in some circumstances.

Discuss…

I always took the position of if I work then you pay me, didn’t go to work for the fun of it

I am paid to do a job I get the job done.

The hours are not what matters.

I am senior enough I have to work extra over contact regularly but also I get an informal flexibility in return.

I am lucky I have an excellent working relationship with my masters who recognise results not hours.

You’re rather chatty for someone that’s just annihilated their sphincter.

Krypton do might want to edit the above as some of it is hard to understand

If you are paid by the hour then I understand working contracted hours only or if not then a modest amount of extra time only.

IMO if you are on a salary there is really on such concept as contracted hours. Those that work longer will most likely get more done and have more time to spend on career advancing activities like getting to understand other parts of the business and/or doing some self learning. As such those employees are more likely to get promoted and/or get paid more. The same applies to working at weekends. We’ve all heard and experienced people just doing “facetime” in the office but most people whom work longer hors do it productively.

If someone else is working harder than you and gets ahead by doing it don’t expect legislation to bale you out. If its not someone at your company out-working you it will be a competitor be that a domestic one or international

If I’ve committed to doing something by a certain time then I’ll work the hours to do it. Other than that I hate a routine long hours culture – I’m definitely in the “work to live” camp.

bearnecessities – Member
You’re rather chatty for someone that’s just annihilated their sphincter.

. Just because today I’m unable to talk out of my arse is no barrier to posting on stw…

I had an argument with a manager who stated that I was obliged to go over my allotted work hours on a daily basis. I asked him to prove I was contractually obliged, he couldn’t. I dont work any extra hours unless i am able to do so (working day off) or minivader is getting picked up from school.

This isn’t about me btw. I was just interested in the debate/opinion, whilst working actually and waiting for iTunes to reinstall….

IMO if you are on a salary there is really on such concept as contracted hours

Of course there is – I’m on a salary and am contracted to work 35 hours a week

Only mugs do extra.

I work about 7:30 to 4:30 plus extra at weekends and on some days work 7:30 to 7:30. I also worked 2 full days during the easter holidays in school and two days of marking at home. None of which I get paid extra for. Its expected. Might explain why we cant get enough staff.

99.9% of managers and staff I know work above their contracted hours, go the extra mile and so on, try to offer some flexibility but that is becoming harder with HR policies and procedures.

My job is pretty easy much of the time, and I get a lot of flexibility. For example if I’m not on a project I can stay at home and no-one chases up what I do really.

However, when the team has its back to the wall I need to help out. For example in London a load of my mates are trying to get something working urgently, and our company’s success and reputation is on the line, so I’m ready to help, however late it gets. I can’t leave them in the lurch, they need me.

This doesn’t happen very often though.

i used to fall for this for years until i sussed that an hour before i finished my contracted hours each day i approached my line manager and asked how he’d like me to spend my final hour that day.. worked a treat i got respect and off home circa two hours earlier than i would have previously

I’m contracted to do 25.5 hrs a week and thats what i do, other employees are paid a salary and end up doing daft amounts of hrs for no extra money. I’m too long in the tooth to have the p1ss taken.
I value time over money, days off are spent walking the dog, blasting on the bike, sitting in the pub drinking ale and i occationally do some diy.

It’s not always a mug’s game.

In some jobs, people who work hard and are committed to the task are valued. If you’re valued, you get reputation as a good worker. If you’re a good worker you can progress to more senior jobs. And these are not only better paid but much more interesting and challenging.

I need an interesting and challenging job far more than I need extra money.

One of our higher managers pretty much lost the respect of all but the brown nosers when in a meeting to ‘debate and discuss’ non project related targets for the next year (i.e. stuff like updating corporate standards, design manuals etc) he basically said “we don’t anticipate them taking any more than 10-20 hours a year, surely you can find that time?”, which is impossible to do in work time as it’s booked to clients by the hour. When challenged as to whether this extra work was optional the response was “yes it is, but so is promotion”.

So that’s 10-20 hours (yea f****** right), and a minimum of 4 to count towards your performance review, that’s 40-80 hours. That’s 2 working weeks of free work!

And the reason this pissed us off? The management (who want this work done) signed an opt out of overtime in return for a substantial raise. So they’re expected to do that work. We’d be paid this work as overtime, if there was a booking code!

Its expected.

Should it be though? Most of us will fall into the category of doing “unpaid” extras when needed i suspect and we are lucky if we have understanding bosses who then allow flexibility with time around family commitments.

Me? Well, I work for what I’m paid for. It’s retail so it goes with the job that you have to be 10 mins or so early and you leave 10 mins late, that’s just the way it is. Other than that, in every job for the rest of my entire life, if I’m wanted to work extra hours, someone will have to pay me overtime for it. I would, and have a couple of times, just walked out when my time was up…..

I’m salaried and contracted to work 40 hours a week.

Most weeks I work 30-35 hours (and get paid for 40) with the full knowledge of my employer.

If I work more than 40 hours, I get paid overtime (at x1.5 hourly)

The brown nosing comes from asking, “is there anything else you want me to do ?”

The answer is pretty much always “no that’s fine, you get on your way, thanks for offering though”

Forget that. What about this:
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/feb/28/primary-school-teachers-work-60-hour-week
60 hours a week? Boofuckinghoo. I’m busting 65 right now without half a year of holiday.

I’ve you’ve never had to engage and control a class of kids you have no idea how draining it is all day every day.

I would, and have a couple of times, just walked out when my time was up.

Did your colleagues mind about that?

FTFY

I think it starts in a pretty simple place, if you expect people to work for free, you lose the right to expect people to work when you’re paying them.

The thing I find really weird, is the “it’s expected” or “everyone does it” line. In my last office in the bank, there was one woman that worked unpaid overtime constantly- worked through lunches, came in early, left late. If you asked her why, she genuinely told you “everyone does it”. But none of the rest of us did. I did overtime for time off in lieu (at a time that bloomin suited me btw, none of this “You may take time off when we choose nonsense- I’m working when you want me to, don’t think I’ll be getting my part of the bargain on your terms too). Others did it for cash. Nobody else worked for free but Bridget insisted “everyone does it”

It just seems to be a thing people do to themselves, there was no management pressure to do it in that office. I’m sure there’s workplaces where everyone does do it, and in those workplaces they won’t think it’s unusual, they’ll tell themselves everyone in other workplaces also do it. There’ll be industries where it’s standard, and those industries won’t think anything of it either.

I get paid X money to do Y hours. I’m expected to achieve Z in those hours. I have a contract and a bit of independent free will, and when I get recognition it’s because I’m pretty bloody good at my job, not because I stayed back late (while often achieving ****-all, let’s be honest). Because my boss is sound, if he needs a little extra, I’ll give it, and I’ll get something back of equivalent value to me.

Have you changed jobs Neal, as well as location? Thought you were s/e?

Have only ever worked in a long hours culture – law – where my longest ” days” in private practice were up to 40 hours. Not so bad in house – rarely more than 50 hours a week, sometimes more and often less.

No idea what my contracted hours are.

Fourbanger, the holidays are contracted for teachers. We have 4 vacancies for teachers in my department if you want a job. Loads of holiday and a gold plated pension.

I work in software and in some places working overtime is expected. On my 1st week I noticed I was arriving late and leaving before/after others, despite doing my allotted hours. Just to test the waters I stuck to my hours. Nobody has mentioned a thing yet.

Now, if they gave me a development machine less than 10yrs old I might actually get something done at work and maybe go home earlier.

http://xkcd.com/303/

If you need to work long over your contracted hours then you can’t be very good at your job 😉

I almost always leave on time, most of the time I actually get to leave early because I work quickly and run out of stuff to do before my rostered hours are up, so I don’t mind the odd few days staying a bit late if a load of stuff gets dumped on us last minute. I’m contracted 160 hours a month with no set pattern and it suits me fine. Never have a case of the mondays as every week is different 🙂

Do extra hours when required, get paid for them (except the first half hour for the Queen, but I always make up for that by reading the paper on the crapper before I go home), prefer to go home on time but it’s just not that kind of job.

You have to pay me do extra. I often end up working 60 hour weeks due to let finishes as it is. I do acquire time by answering staff phoning me at home and checking emails but I gain that back easily.

In the past, I’ve had management positions where extra hours were sometimes needed, but flexibility was available in return. Those terms, and the salary I had then, made the trade off worthwhile.

Now, I’m paid less than the average wage to work 37 hours a week, and that is what they get. (Flexitime helps off set the drop in wages and fits in with child care)

Have you changed jobs Neal, as well as location? Thought you were s/e?

Yes to both.

I’m still self employed as a part time sideline. My employed working hours give me plenty of flexibility.

The terrors of performativity.

I work in a job (private practice commercial law) where working contracted hours is pretty much viewed as shirking. But I don’t go overvoard. I know how many hours I’m prepared to put in for how much I get paid and I try to stick to that. It’s not 9 to 5 but my pay isn’t 9 to 5 either.

In an ideal world I’d take a pay cut for a better balance (and I am looking) but until that happens I’ll stick to my end of the bargain with the devil…

Fourbanger, the holidays are contracted for teachers. We have 4 vacancies for teachers in my department if you want a job. Loads of holiday and a gold plated pension.

When you add in the holidays, how many hours a week is it on average? I might be interested.

@hjghg5 unless you’re at a US or magic circle shop, you’ll find your pay isn’t all that for the hours you’ll clock up.

Remember, it’s a pyramid scheme….

i am paid to work 8:30 till 5 why should i work more. I am not getting training, no overtime, i am not getting appraisals, i spend my days looking at the management and thinking WTF!

If the company wants more out of me without paying me then i want something else in loo, which isn’t going to happen.

Instead i ride my bike lots and have a personal life.

When you add in the holidays, how many hours a week is it on average? I might be interested.

No idea I dont know what my contract says or how many I do. Plenty of jobs though.