Viewing 33 posts - 1 through 33 (of 33 total)
  • Work moan
  • molgrips
    Free Member

    I don’t normally do this, but I could do with some perspective.

    I’m an IT consultant, and there’s a team of techies and a different team of sellers. As you might imagine, orders are down – now they are pinning some of the blame on us techies for not ‘selling ourselves’ well enough.

    Apparently, the hope is that by collaborating with the sellers we can get them to invite us onto their sales trips, and get (internal) revenue that way. But there are four of us on this team, so in order to go on their sales trips I have to go in place of a colleague.

    Now we’re all under the same pressure, so this is going to end in us shouting louder and louder to get these engagements. To make matters worse we are all quite good friends, and we don’t want to be fighting each other.

    Anyone else been in a similar situation?

    honkiebikedude
    Free Member

    Take turns to go on sales trips ? If you go on a sales trip tomorrow , then you don’t do another till the other three have done their stint ?

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    I have been.

    I joined the sales team after realising the one I “helped” got a new job / rise / etc and my boss is basically looking after his own career instead of helping me with mine. But I was invited to the position by being the “best” sales support colleague.

    The moral of this story – help yourself or move to sales. Its where the reward is higher, yet usually so is the risk.

    More specifically for you – its in your own group interest to sell your services is it not? Who wants to be here next year?

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    bigG
    Free Member

    The fact that you’re even asking the question shows how you’re not made out for anything to do with sales.

    Accept your fate pond life and watch the pushy ones prosper. There’s no place for “nice” or “friends” in modern thrusting successful workplace.

    Alternatively, take turns. Bet you get fourth place.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    Write an App to schedule the sales trips.

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    I have seen many similar situations in my work (sales consulting, sales force effectiveness). There is a general trend to get the technical experts to develop client skills and then accompany the sales person more regularly on sales trips; in the bigger consultancies this is already a formal role, e.g. pre-sales consulting.

    Now we’re all under the same pressure, so this is going to end in us shouting louder and louder to get these engagements.

    I guarantee you if that’s the approach you take you won’t get the appointments. You’ve got to be of value to the sales person for them to want to take you, so you need to find out how you can be of value, which means asking questions of the sales person around the client, the meeting, objectives, value potential etc.

    At the very least, I would be asking your management for some kind of development around sales skills so that you can develop your client facing skills. The worst thing you could be in front of a client is a techie with no client skills (and I see that constantly!)

    I’m also not sure what this means:

    e can get them to invite us onto their sales trips, and get (internal) revenue that way.

    What do you mean by internal revenue? I would have assumed you’re aim is to help the sales process and thereby close more deals.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Take turns to go on sales trips ?

    Hmm.. yeah.. well we also have a resourcing team, whose job it is to place us techies on appropriate assignment, either sales or actual billable engagements.

    So the sellers are supposed to ask for a techie, and resourcing decide who’s available. However now they are in effect officially asking us to bypass that process and get sellers to request individuals specifically.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    The fact that you’re even asking the question shows how you’re not made out for anything to do with sales.

    No argument there. Let’s just clear this up – I’m NOT tech sales and have no desire to be – there’s yet another team for that. They support the sale of licenses. The sellers I’m talking about are trying to sell our consultancy services. Our role is to provide expertise to help clients get the most out of the software on short or medium term engagements.

    However we can be hired out to the tech sales team, for a price, and since the services sellers are a different team if we work for them to help secure a sale of our own services, we can charge them.

    Having typed that out, it seems utterly bonkers..!

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    The sellers I’m talking about are trying to sell our consultancy services

    In which case your role is critical. You can’t sell consultancy of any kind unless you as the client can see the IP that you’re buying, which is you Molgrips (I mean that in a complementary way you understand; you’re the brains they are buying). But it does make your development of client engagement skills all the more critical.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    True. I’m pretty good in client meetings, I just don’t get asked very often, because there aren’t that many meetings where we’re required. I don’t know why management don’t just tell the sellers to invite us more.. for the exact reasons you describe.

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    The sellers won’t do it unless they can see the benefit to themselves (we’re selfish creatures at heart and we also tend to be quite controlling). Even if management mandates it they’ll find a away around it or an excuse for not doing it.

    You need to sell yourself by showing the value of you being there early in the process. Ask questions, try to understand the situation, offer ideas about areas that should be explored, highlight the value potential, suggest that if they (the sellers) took you with them you’d be able to reduce the sales cycle, increase the chances of closing the deal and at a likely higher dollar value etc.

    If you’ve got good client skills already then all you need to do is treat the sales person like your client.

    igm
    Full Member

    Yep. Bonkers.

    Your company has too many separate teams and too much internal billing.

    Are you by any chance in a business that did very, very well pre-recession and hasn’t had to cope with troubled times until the last few years?

    Very 1990s feel to that structure and I can already hear a troupe of management consultants bearing down on you to sort it out and get you into a leaner fitter business structure.

    Half tongue in cheek, but only half.

    brakes
    Free Member

    we’re selfish creatures at heart and we also tend to be quite controlling

    controlling until there’s actual work to be done at which point you drop it and leave everyone else to pick up the underpriced shitty pieces. but you’ve got your sales credit so WGAF right? salesman, bah!

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    controlling until there’s actual work to be done at which point you drop it and leave everyone else to pick up the underpriced shitty pieces

    Sooooo true. It’s less WGAF and more NMFP.

    To be honest, this isn’t me and it’s not any other top performing sales person either unless the company structure encourages it.

    I get paid on profit, not revenue and that makes things very different as I have to price right and I have to make sure we can deliver effectively and efficiently as that determines profit.

    Rewarding on profit not revenue makes a big difference in the outcome. It doesn’t always mean you sell at the highest price or even the right price, but it does make the sales person part of solving that problem, not just creating it and then walking off in a NMFP induced flounce.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    You need to sell yourself by showing the value of you being there early in the process.

    That sentence really helps clear up the situation. I’m going to try and set up meetings with sellers, see how I get on. I think they are quite keen to talk to us more, but don’t seem to have the channels.

    Moving from a developer to a consultant is quite a big jump in this outfit, it seems.

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    Moving from a developer to a consultant is quite a big jump in this outfit, it seems.

    It’s a big jump for anyone in any outfit but if you’re good with clients and you enjoy it it’s hugely rewarding and not just from a job satisfaction point of view.

    Some of the most valuable people inside any organisation are those who can combine high technical knowledge with great client skills. In technology especially it’s relatively rare.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Some of the most valuable people inside any organisation are those who can combine high technical knowledge with great client skills. In technology especially it’s relatively rare.

    Very true – not one to blow my own trumpet but this is how I’ve stayed in a job for many years. As mentioned early I’ve now moved to Sales / Account Management. As geetee1972 says, its not always atypical, I’m finding it very hard work. I came from professional services supporting the sales team to sell Services and increase the services revenue (molgrips I can help for a fee 😀 ) as a Solution Architect.

    Now I’m on the other side (recently, as of March) of the fence making sure I sell more software & service revenue relevant to the customer so as not to give me an account management nightmare, AND trying to make an annual target.

    Trust me, the role you are talking about Molgrips is highly prized if you can make it work – a lot can’t.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    I would aspire to do just that. I’m good at working with people and technology. The only issue is when it comes to sales. I love to solve difficult problems. Some of them are technical, and some can be solved by enlightening people.

    I’m currently not happy with current management letting all this shite fall onto our shoulders. Other people who’ve been here longer seem to think it’s normal, but there are threats this time that look like being enforced, based on failing to do things that I don’t think are reasonable.

    So if any of you have jobs to offer with better management.. 😉

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    This:

    The only issue is when it comes to sales.

    plus this:

    I love to solve difficult problems.

    Only needs this word adding to it:

    client’s

    In order for you to be home and dry.

    Anyone claiming to be a sales person who does not solve their client’s problems is NOT a sales person.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    You mean difficult clients’ problems, or clients’ difficult problems? 🙂

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    You mean difficult clients’ problems, or clients’ difficult problems?

    Man you’re a freakin natural!

    molgrips
    Free Member

    😆

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Two axioms of business:

    All customers are morons.

    All Salespeople are scum.

    😉

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    footflaps – Member
    Two axioms of business:

    customers pay your wages
    customers pay your wages

    FTFY

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    Or alternatively:

    Customers pay your wages
    Sales people get you customers

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Fortunately, I don’t work in the area that does the projects that need bidding on. That would be much worse. Here the sellers just sell 6 weeks of me, and I turn up and work for 6 weeks.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Here the sellers just sell 6 weeks of me, and I turn up and work for 6 weeks

    Right there is your issue. To keep working, you need to ensure they keep selling you. In order to do so – give them the material they need to do so.

    Imagine a new Saleman joins, he/she knows nothing about you, you have no work and are worried about getting made redundant. Now, what would you tell him/do to ensure he sells you enough so that that doesn’t happen?

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    Now, what would you tell him/do to ensure he sells you enough so that that doesn’t happen?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Ah yes, there’s the real issue I think. The sellers don’t really know what we get up to and what we can do. I’ve never met any of them, and only spoken to one on the phone.

    Fortunately, in this job, you can organise your own stuff to fix problems like this. Perhaps it ought to be the management’s job though but still.

    PimpmasterJazz
    Free Member

    I’m an IT consultant, and there’s a team of techies and a different team of sellers. As you might imagine, orders are down – now they are pinning some of the blame on us techies for not ‘selling ourselves’ well enough.

    Sounds like my place. Sales go down, so naturally Sales blame other people who aren’t in sales for not selling.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    The sellers don’t really know what we get up to and what we can do. I’ve never met any of them, and only spoken to one on the phone.

    Road to nowhere ^^.

    Are you located near London? If so tell them I’m a 10year+ experienced professional in this area, 20 year+ industry expert with a track record of professional services revenue growth year on year, solutions and technical enablement expertise as well as sale experience and a loyal national and international customer base. I’d would be happy to work with your company to ensure you achieve revenue growth overall and are able to communicate your technical excellence and business solution expertise to your customer’s to maximise retention and customer growth. whats more I’ll agree to an appropriate base salary package with a bonus element based on an 18 month growth plan.

    There you go, that wasn’t hard was it…? Copy, paste and change the words molgrips, send me a cheque for £5000 in the post would you….

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Lolz 🙂

    There are several reasons why you are unlikely to get any business from us, Kryton, sorry 🙂

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    molgrips – Member
    Lolz

    There are several reasons why you are unlikely to get any business from us, Kryton, sorry

    You didn’t wait for the finale…

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1Qy0U5RpCc&feature=player_embedded#t=17s[/video]

Viewing 33 posts - 1 through 33 (of 33 total)

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