Just looking for a quick survey for those on here who are employed, (self employed don’t count).

My employer has stated that they would like to introduce what they call a work back/pay back scheme for un-certified/self certified sickness, which basically means that for every day of sickness that you have you either have to give back one days pay or leave or come in and work on one of your days off.

Now i have canvassed my friends and haven’t found anyone whose employers do anything similar at all, nor have any of them either heard of such practices, many questioned the legality of it.

Naturally senior managers within the organisation i work for are all for it, going as far as telling us that it is being widely intoduced in the private sector (I work in the public sector).

Be interested to hear from anyone who has this at their work. Thanks.

never heard of that at all. private sector. I’ve worked at places that don’t offer very much sick pay, but that’s different

I’m not sure about the legallities but I’ve never heard of it for staff people, contractors are obviously a different case. What it actually sounds like getting a doctors line for any sick day which sounds to me like a right pain and will likely involve people taking more not less time off.

Never heard of it.

Forcing you to trade holidays for sick days sounds a marginally legal.

Given you’re public sector what do the unions say?

Never heard of this (I am in the private sector). However my employer doesn’t automatically pay company sick pay (just SSP after the waiting period). In reality they do pay it – but let it be known that it is at their discretion and if they feel that you are taking the mick they would withdraw it.

In my view ‘work back’ would be preferable to no pay at all.

IS this excluding statatory sick pay then, as it sounds as though you’re employer wants to cash in… And no, never heard of it. It’s typicla cost cutting, penalising a workforce due to a few taking the pee, it will kill morale which i don’t think they quite understand.

Sounds like absolute nonsense, I’d agree with some of your friends with regards to the legality of such a scheme.

Are the company saying that they are withdrawing company sick pay (the pay back bit), but that you can work an extra day in lieu (the work back bit)? I know companies that don’t pay sick pay.

I assume that SSP is unaffected as the OP is talking about un-certified sickness.

Sounds a bit fishy but i’ve been in the same job for 8 years and am lucky to have a reasonable employer.

https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave – Only mentions that for periods under 7 days that the norm is for self certification. It does mention that over 7 days you might be classed as ‘may be fit to work’ by your doc and that you should chat with your employer.

If anything, it sounds like a relatively crude way of getting round ‘duvet days’ rather than just addressing the problem members of staff.

Plus I bet you they aren’t offering more time off if you have to work more than your contracted hours either!

I’d be trying to get as many people as possible to give a unanimous middle finger to the management!

Is sick pay in your contract? I have 8 days of sick pay per year.
I could understand for days over that allowence. All depends on the contract.

I could understand for days over that allowance.

except company will no doubt claim SSP for the days off above that and still make you give up holidays as well.

except company will no doubt claim SSP for the days off above that and still make you give up holidays as well.

That would depend if the 8+ days were taken as a lump (when SSP were paid) or as 8 separate occasions when the company won’t get any SSP.

I used to be a union branch secretary in the public sector and this, along with a number of other weird and wonderful “blame sick people for being sick” schemes were suggested – almost always with the aim of “bringing down sickness” and “helping people be more healthy”.

On the basis of the data the employer provided – it was easy to see that time off sick was only over the national average in one area – management – and that all other employees did very well at being healthy and coming in to work. It’s one area where data can be very good at uncovering the nonsense pedalled by prevaricators in HR.

In general, it’s an emotive subject, and one where campaigns from the union side (the local press can often be useful and on side) can be very effective at impressing upon the employer the need to maintain decent levels of sick pay – no one benefits from a sick workforce, and making people come in when they are sick (which is the aim of such schemes) will only make this worse. If there is a question over the honesty of someone’s sickness, then there are proper processes to deal with that.

never heard of it

just sounds like they dont trust their employees

It sounds unworkable really – in that a self-certified/un-certified illness would be a short one – shorter than the waiting times for appointments at you GP, it can be at least a couple of days for me to see a GP, but sometimes its take me a week or more to get an appointment.

I don’t need to certify anything as I’m self employed but unless the OP’s employer is offering to supply their own GP service specifically for certifying minor ailments of their staff then I think GPs in their workforce catchment and (and the rest of their patients) might prefer it if the health service appoint system wasn’t clogged with people having their brief dose of the squits confirmed in writing.

Thanks for the replies, i’m not wanting to start a huge debate about this, as i said just looking for a wider audience to see where this scheme may already be implemented, but to answer a couple of the questions,

not sure how SSP would be affected, this is more of a stated aim rather than a policy ready to be launched,

unions are obviously very anti, however they/we were very anti shift changes, pension changes and a whole raft of other detrimntal changes to our working conditions, didn’t make sod all difference though!

[management head]
I think this is a wonderful opportunity for both sides. The company is not obliged to pay sick pay however it compassionately realises that people losing money due to unplanned sickness is not pleasant.

This scheme allows the genuinely sick time to recover knowing that they will still get paid and can make up the lost time later. It will also act as a deterent to the small minority who current abuse the sick pay system.

Is summary – the sick do not lose money each time they cannot come to work so they can plan their finances better and the company does not get exploited by the work shy

[/management head]

[normal head]
That sucks and I think they are trying it on. Never heard of it in any of the companies I have worked with/for.

Sounds like ballocks to me. I’m in the private sector, never heard of it.

1) This will make people come in when they’re sick and share their germs. I don’t want other people’s germs, I want them to stay home.

2) How productive are people when they’re sick? I’ve “soldiered on” a few times, only to be sent home because it was pointless me being there. I only did it because the employer had a “blame the sick for being sick” culture.

3) People will stay off for a week or more in order to get a doctors cert to get around it, therefore more lost productivity.

They could, at a push, introduce this on a voluntary basis – if they don’t pay company sick pay and it’s only SSP, then if people WANT to trade holiday/work extra in order to still be paid, then that could be an option open to them, but I think that to force it is probably not legal.

I worked for a charity that didn’t pay sick pay, only SSP, and I was on flexi, so they did allow me to work extra to make up small periods of sickness if I wanted to, but I had a flexi hours contract, so it was much easier for that to happen.

a company I know has introduced a policy of not paying sick pay for the first 3 days.

at the same time, monday morning stomach bugs and friday migraines have dropped significantly

a company I know has introduced a policy of not paying sick pay for the first 3 days.

at the same time, monday morning stomach bugs and friday migraines have dropped significantly

I’m surprised the rate of people having a Friday migraine followed by a Monday stomach bug didn’t rise to compensate.

If we have a day off sick we either take it as holiday or take it unpaid.

Sucks because if someone has a cold they come in rather than spend a days holiday and infect everyone else in the office.

Thanks for everyone taking their time to reply, hopefully it’ll never get off the ground, and i am a little boosted to hear that it is almost un-heard of among the great and good of STW 😀