Thinking about trying to put in a wood burning stove in my house, and obviously this is the best place to ask for advice 😉

I’m in a smokeless zone so need a DEFRA approved stove?

I have recently taken out (moved) a gas boiler and the flue is in almost the perfect position to be used for the stove, just behind a partition wall from where the stove might go… however the flue is only 5″ (inside diameter) so does that mean its not useable? Will I need to upgrade it all to 6″?

Its going in the middle (on the long wall) of a large open plan living / dining room 5x9m so I guess I need something quite powerful but its only going to be a secondary heat source, so…??? Budget is very tight so probably going to go smaller…

There is a possibility that we will move in a couple of years time, but so would be trying to set it up so it could be taken with me to a new house if needed. I’ve got a parquet floor, and so I guess I have to put in some kind of stone? base for it?

Any recommendations or advice gratefully received!!

Thanks

Z.

Hi, you will need a new class 1 liner, existing one is most likely made of aluminium, if you fit a stove which is DEFRA approved with a 5″ outlet you can use a 5″ liner, but best to go 6″, as for trying to do it on a budget get a good quality liner and best budget/chinese stove is firefox 5 or 8, fit to document j regulations, get signed off by building control and jobs a good’n.
By the way, this is probably the worst place for advise on stoves apart from mumsnet.

With a name like twinw4ll, I guess he knows his stuff but in my recent experience the so called “professionals” are as inept as the advice on here…or worse. If you get the right stove, you could get away with a glass hearth if that took your fancy. Easier to take with you and leaves the new occupier with more options.

Get an affordable stove that you can leave if you sell up, it makes for a good selling point and people remember things like that when they are deciding which house to put an offer on.

I was recommended a Firefox 8 off 3-4 different installers and I must admit it’s an absolute cracker

Always err on the side of a smaller stove, that way you will be burning it hotter and therefore cleaner.

Get a proper chimney sweep in to survey and set it all up for you – he will recommend what’s best and make provision for sweeping. Make him your best friend.

I would read the part J of building regs here, and then have a good conversation with your local building control officer. I recently had a HETAS approved guy insist that the law was that I must have a fully insulated liner in my chimney, despite me and him agreeing that the chimney was sound and did not leak. I checked with building control who disagreed, and referred me to the part J document that does not even mention insulation and only requires a liner if the chimney does not leak. So just be aware that some people push an agenda that will result in them making money.

Thanks.. I’ll check out the Firefox… and good point about smaller is better, if running hotter.

My faith in the endless knowledge of singletrackworld remains!

I’m hoping that if the chimney was ok to run a large gas boiler then it should be sealed enough to vent a wood burner… presumably both have to be sealed?

I’ll have a search around for 5″ vent burners

I would read the part J of building regs here, and then have a good conversation with your local building control officer. I recently had a HETAS approved guy insist that the law was that I must have a fully insulated liner in my chimney, despite me and him agreeing that the chimney was sound and did not leak. I checked with building control who disagreed, and referred me to the part J document that does not even mention insulation and only requires a liner if the chimney does not leak. So just be aware that some people push an agenda that will result in them making money.

same here – they all wanted to fit a liner despite me telling them I didnt want or need one. Did it all myself apart sweeping/testing chimney from a good company Wigan ish way then had it signed off.

Some log stove manufacturers use a 5 inch flu, such as my defra approved Fireline stove.

This HETAS were happy with ( two years ago anyway) who said the manufacturers specification came above building regs and HETAS guidelines

Worth giving HETAS a call, as things can change

If you want good advise from people who know their stuff, best call the solid fuel advisory service, imho.

Well my 5″ flue apparently is no use for a wood fire as its an old asbestos thing… ;(… so would need replacing totally and couldn’t take the temperatures of a wood burner anyhow. So I’ll need a complete new flue, chimney and build a fireplace to house the fire… First quote came in a £7k…. 2nd quote is in a 3k which sounds like it might be about right for the work involved, but is lot higher than I was hoping for…. I’ll start to look to see what parts of the work I can do myself.

If you are fitting a defra approved stove in a smokless area then it has to be lined with a stainless steel flexible liner and then insulated with leca or vermiculite to get it signed off by hetas/building control.

Also Dunsley highlander solo stoves are fantastic

Apologies for hi jacking. Is it possible to install a burner in a 1970’s house with no flue/chimney?

If you are fitting a defra approved stove in a smokless area then it has to be lined with a stainless steel flexible liner and then insulated with leca or vermiculite to get it signed off by hetas/building control.

On what infomation do you base that on ? as my stove was fitted with a liner and signed off by HETAS.

Manufacturers instructions do not over rule building regulations when it comes to solid fuel.

The stricter of the two options is taken, this is different to both oil and gas where manufacturers instructions take overide building regulations.

However you can use a flue of a different dimension providing that you have done the relevant calculations first.

If you are fitting a defra approved stove in a smokless area then it has to be lined with a stainless steel flexible liner and then insulated with leca or vermiculite to get it signed off by hetas/building control.

This appears to be untrue as I am fitting a defra approved stove in a smokeless area. Building control have advised me that my plan to fit it with a 500mm long flue, and register plate in my leak free victorian chimney is fine.

toys thats how i installed my stove, just register plate and flue, got a Chimney sweep to clean and check the chimney and away you go. Cost very little and is an easy DIY job as long as you do your research and install to the instructions on your stove.My Dad did the same all good. Been perfect for 3 years and draws very well.

ah yes bone_idle, but have you got building regs approval? My insurance seems keen..

If you are fitting a defra approved stove in a smokless area then it has to be lined with a stainless steel flexible liner and then insulated with leca or vermiculite to get it signed off by hetas/building control.

Not true unless Part J has changed radically since I installed mine a few years back.

Having said that, unless the existing chimney draws very well, a liner, with or without insulation may well improve the efficiency of the burner and reduce the amount of tar building up.

Having said that, unless the existing chimney draws very well, a liner, with or without insulation may well improve the efficiency of the burner and reduce the amount of tar building up.

IS there a measure of draw? Mine draws very well, but whats good or not?
Also what function does the insulation provide, I think I want to warm up my chimney breast and get some heat into the house don’t I.

Wouldn’t it be best to contact a HETAS approved installer rather than taking advice from STW know alls, well they think they do?
Lots of factors to consider when fitting a stove, stove output and ventilation is a good one!

An old asbestos liner?

Be VERY wary about getting that knocked about! Additionally, asbestos will cope with any temperature that a stove can kick out, so maybe sme additional research needed here.

insulation keeps the flue gas temp up, which goes toward improving the draw and reducing tar buildup.

better draw is always good.

otherwise you have to use up heat, from the fire, to get the chimney to pump air through the stove, and if that happens most of that heat goes straight out the top of the chimney (not warming up the chimney breast)

i.e. better draw = more efficient = more heat for your money

just that all that saved heat will come out of the stove rather than chimney

HTH

The insulation stops heat loss into the chimney void/brick, which again may affect the performance of the stove if draw was marginal in the first place.

I have a liner but no insulation – our stove goes like a train, so no problems, but the chimney breast in the upstairs bedroom gets pretty hot after a few hours.

If you’re not sure, best thing is to get it swept professionally, and get the sweep to assess your draw with a smoke test while they’re at it. If you get a HETAS bloke in, the suspicion will always be that they will tell you you need a liner and insulation regardless (although they may well be right!)

You’ll need building control sign-off, definitely, or your buildings insurance will be void in the event of a chimney fire.

If you get a HETAS bloke in, the suspicion will always be that they will tell you you need a liner and insulation regardless

This has been my experience so far. If you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail..

I’m doing it myself, My step dad did my mums, my plasterer did his.

No liner needed in any of them (my mums house is 400 years old)

smoke test with proper smoke pellets, if you don’t get smoke in the house (worth checking with next door as well, if you live in a terrace) then you don’t need a liner!

register plate circa 80 quid, make that as airtight as possible with fire cement, job done.

Well 2nd quote came in today, was 3K when he visited but somehow seems to have gone up to almost 6k… ;(

Looks like no fire for me, feeling a bit glum about it now…

“You’ll need building control sign-off, definitely, or your buildings insurance will be void in the event of a chimney fire.”

is that a fact. doesnt that depend which country your in ?

What I should have said was that if you don’t go down the HETAS route, you’ll need sign-off. HETAS can self-certify in E&W. Not sure if even HETAS can self-certify in Scotland and NI.

or your buildings insurance will be void in the event of a chimney fire.”

How set in stone is this? surely build up of soot over the years is more likely to start a fire? what difference would it make that the appliance was signed off x amount of years ago?

and anyway, wouldn’t you just say, the stoves been in since I had the house, prior to these rules coming into force?

and anyway, wouldn’t you just say, the stoves been in since I had the house, prior to these rules coming into force?

This is something I’d like an answer to (won’t get it here though). How do they know when the stove went in?
Also, seeing as open fire are send more crap up the flue AND get the flue hotter (thus increasing the risk of a chimney fire), how are the insurance companies dealing with the millions (?) of houses with open fires installed 50/100 years ago.
Seeing as a stoves are 80% of the time fitted into existing open fireplaces, and stoves are safer than an open fire, shouldn’t the insurance companies being jumping on the owners of homes with open fireplaces?

if my memory is correct the efflux from a wood burner is hotter than an open fire also the volume of air going up the chimney(liner) is a lot lower which is why a liner is recomended. If you google it there are some excellent sites which explain the pros and cons

I suggest folks in scotland read for them selves exacty what work needs a warrent and thus sign off.

Fwiw direct line didnt give 2 hoots i had a solid fuel stove in the living room

I have yet to find an insurance company (in england) that does not expect hetas/building regs sign off for new installs. I guess a switched on insuramce investigator, in the even of a fire caused by a chimney, may well be able to track the provenance of your stove..

That is because its part of your law

Surely, in the event of a chimney fire, receipts to prove you’d kept the chimney swept would be what was required?

if my memory is correct the efflux from a wood burner is hotter than an open fire

How does this sit with the fact that a stove is 80% efficient (20% of the heat up the flue) while an open fire is 20% efficient, so 80% of the heat up the flue – 4 times more than the stove?

Liners are primarily recommended for flues because the flue gasses are COOLER (because more heat has gone into the stove body) and therefore need help getting out which leads to less deposits

More so , you want your flue hot so that the shite doesnt condense in the flue.