Scrap it and use the money saved to encourage women to stay at home for at least the first five years of the child’s life. At a stroke you’ll cut down on family break-ups and thereby give the kids a much better start in life.

And yes, I know there are plenty exceptions, but by and large it’s generally agreed that it’s important for a child to have its mother there in the early years. Might also encourage some of the more feckless dads to take a bit more responsibility too.

And if it decreases the birth rate, well the world has far, far too many folk in it already. No need to encourage any more than is sustainable.

Personally I think you should only have children if you have the time and finances to cover the costs of bringing them up, if that includes having to take 12 months off and not getting paid, so be it – the father should be paying for this. If the mother is the sole breadwinner and the family cannot afford a child if she is off work surely they shouldn’t be thinking about having one, thats the choice she made when she chose a career and left the dad at home (or not a choice if the dad left, but tough luck). Seems like common sense to me, I’m not sure why the business should be forced to foot the bill. Having children isnt a universal right, its a responsibility that needs to be taken seriously.

I’m not sure why the business should be forced to foot the bill.

Maybe because otherwise business would lose a lot of very talented people.

Glad to see MC-piggery is alive and kicking!! 😉

Maybe because otherwise business would lose a lot of very talented people.

No they wouldnt, they’d just be glad of having a guaranteed job to come back to afterwards.

People want their cake and to eat it. I’m very much a family person, and would want time off to be with my kid, but I’d find it a joke that I got paid for it.

A colleague of mine went skiing, damaged her knee and had 20 weeks off work on full pay.
I had a child and had 19 weeks off work, 10 of these weeks on half pay!

………and your point is ?

Presumably it was your choice to have a child. Do you really think you were equally deserving of payment for making that choice, after which you chose not to work, than someone who was physically unable to ?

The country would be screwed without child birth being encouraged, we have an ageing population and this is a long term time bomb. It’s not a perfect system, but few things designed for the masses are perfect.

*chuckles to self*

Get over yourself Woody!! 😉

I am over myself.

I merely wondered why you appeared to think you were more, or equally deserving of payment by virtue of producing a child than someone who was injured in an accident ?

I got two issues really. No problem with maternity.

First of all if we’re in the mood of saying ‘get more kids, they have to pay our pensions!’ what happens when they get old? With this thinking there would be a geometric explosion of people to keep the elderly well-cared for. At some point it breaks down.

The main thing I find disagreeable is that child benefit is universal. I know of people on > £100k getting it. They don’t need it. The people who are trying to make ends meet do. Greedy feckers should not be given it. And that “get a kid and we’ll set up a savings account with a couple of hundred quid” thing. And child benefit should start reducing as you have more kids. Those people who consider themselves baby-making-machines after two kids should get no child benefit unless they have triplets.

Bah, humbug!

Woody, your last sentence was a statement, not a question.

Same oold STw – Loads of bell ends with over inflated baseless opinions. If it wasn’t for kids/parents none of you would be here – actually as this place is full of {One and only warning on avoiding the swear filter – Mod}

Daily Mail-o-matic

First of all if we’re in the mood of saying ‘get more kids, they have to pay our pensions!’ what happens when they get old? With this thinking there would be a geometric explosion of people to keep the elderly well-cared for. At some point it breaks down.

You don’t need a geometric explosion to avoid an ageing population and the problems with pensions etc., you just need people to be born at the replacement rate. If women had to give up careers, this would probably go down even further.

Joe

FoxyChick

No matter which way you look at it there was at least one question but if you don’t want to respond to it I couldn’t give a monkeys and I am certainly not about to start arguing over semantics 🙄

Hope you enjoyed your time off with your baby and your colleague is fit and well again 😆

Woody, I just think that if you want to look like a pompous ****** you should at least do it in a grammatically correct way!! 😉

PML

Sorry. I shall stand in the naughty corner and study my grammar for future postings 😆

3 posts and still no answer to a perfectly reasonable question. Ho Hum…….

People take paid time off work for a whole host of reasons.
My colleague who went skiing, had aleady injured her knee previously, but she CHOSE to go skiing again. IMO she should not have been paid for the time she took off. Just my opinion.

I’d be interested to know how many of the people who are against maternity pay have benefited from it (because their partners have had it) – in my experience at work, lots of the people who complain have actually directly benefitted.

Anyway, regardless, my view is that while it’s a PITA for companies, it’s something that most of us benefit from at some point in our lives and I see it as a good thing – particularly speaking as someone whose wife is currently on maternity leave… The fact is that life nowadays is expensive whether that’s because we have higher expectations or not the fact remains. I’m lucky enough that we’d saved enough that we could have lived without maternity pay but it certainly means digging less deep into our savings. Besides, as above, my son will most likely be paying for our pensions at some point so it’s not as simple as simply saying that kids are an outgoing cost only.

TJ I’d be interested to know if you really are the total hypocrite you seem to be or whether you really believe in everyone for themselves which seems very Thatcherite for someone who often seems to be strongly socialist in every other matter (or maybe it’s just when it benefits you). Presumably you think that we shouldn’t pay any taxes at all but should have to pay only for every public service that we use and better off people shouldn’t pay tax towards supporting others who aren’t so well off.

Using choice as a justification is debateable – IIRC you work for the NHS and are a strong advocate for unions. I guess that with your opinion on choice, for example you presumably believe that drug addicts should all be left to fend for themselves (and presumably should pay for treatment), people who hurt themselves doing recreational activities (eg mtbing) should have to pay for treatment and in fact, that the whole concept of the NHS should be scrapped and replaced with private heath insurance. And then presumably unions shouldn’t be necessary since anyone has a choice in who for/where they work so can just move if they’re not happy.

agree seems odd, just had a guy at work take 2 weeks maternity leave , i mean come on, i agree keep the job open for say 6 months after the sprog is born.must be huge drain on small business.i have 2 kids , both grown up.

tj is just a {and there we go… time to hang out in the cooler for a day – mod}

Maybe we could have a system whereby child benefit was only paid to working fathers in an effort to stop the feckless underclass from breeding. I’m not talking about the folk who are made unemployed for a while through no fault of their own, but instead the “get a baby; get a free house” lot who end up producing the next generation of neds.

That’s a totally separate issue Kenny – the sort of people who do that typically wouldn’t have a job anyway so wouldn’t be getting maternity pay…

Every one gets ssp just like every one gets smp and sap so the state does pay. What an employer choses to offer on top of this is up to them but it is seen as a benifit just like extra holidays.

Good point clubber; hadn’t actually occurred to me.

How much is SMP? Fully support it myself but would like to see parity with paternity leave really. The benefits to society are obvious, but you can see why lots of businesses are scared of employing women likely to have children soon. Don’t agree with them, but then I don’t run a business.

Foxychick, surely if you think your colleague should not be paid then you shouldn’t either! After 20 weeks off, wouldn’t they be close to SSP anyway? If they were continually off sick this would be held against them. Hopefully your pregnancy would not be held against you (although I accept that it might be by some idiots!).

smp is approx 110 quid per week for 9 months

smp is approx 110 quid per week for 9 months

Wow, that’s not enough is it!

those that are self employed get diddly **** squat from their employer. i don’t know if the state gives you money for being off work coz you’re up the duff. would be glad to be informed on that one.

here in germany workers are so over-protected its crazy. if i was to have a business here i would be employing everyone on a self employed basis. employers have to fork out so much (prob much like uk NI payments) and its very hard to get rid of anyone. even leaving my job of six months they wanted me to work six weeks after handing in my notice. i left after two leaving a trail of paperwork behind me.

anyway, back on topic. the GF went for a job interview and the interviewer asked if she had plans for kiddies and how that would work out with her job. she said that they ought to make sure they pay her more than me, that way i’d stay at home and [strike]play frisbee, go riding, sleep in[/strike]……….er, i mean look after the kid and she’d go to work. bloody love my GF…..

although maternity pay here is very generous for both mother and fathers
J

As an employer and a childless person i sort of sit on the fence. One bit of me gets irked that I am via my taxes paying for maternity leave, the other thinks that it probably encourages intelligent individuals to breed. More often than not its the dole bludgers and fecwits that have time to breed inbetween daytime TV programs.
But then as has been said before its a choice – you choose (more ofthen than not) to start a family. I have chosen not to, yet i don’t get paid time off work. Its inequality in my opinion for childless couples. But that panders to the ‘blame culture’ i suppose. Paid sick time is another gripe of mine but i’ll leave that for another day. And as said before i would not hire a newly married woman in her 30’s over a guy in the same position as i know it would more than likely cost me money. I hire someone because i have the demand to fill a position, paying for it twice could lead to the business failing. Extreme but could happen.

No they wouldnt, they’d just be glad of having a guaranteed job to come back to afterwards.

You seem to be missing the point that the principle cost to business isn’t paying their staff during maternity leave (the government covers most of that as mentioned previously) but keeping the jobs open. If you agree the jobs should be kept open then you’re agreeing to most of the costs to businesses.

FWIW SWMBO is going off on maternity in a couple of months having only been in her current job for <18 months at that point. However given she started there when first born was 8 months old, they must have known there was a good chance of her going off on maternity again. It’s a small company and will impact them, but given current economic circumstances they’re not too upset to be down a member of staff for 9 months – a member of staff who will come back very committed afterwards (she’s also the only senior female employee, and main USP seems to be being a bossy woman who keeps the blokes in line – note that is something she first suggested was the case!) We’re also trying hard not to take the P – she’s going to voluntarily be giving up nursery vouchers which could cost the company lots and be free money to us.

those that are self employed get diddly **** squat from their employer. i don’t know if the state gives you money for being off work coz you’re up the duff. would be glad to be informed on that one.

Yes, there is Maternity Allowance which you claim if you are SE and paying the relevant NI, or if you are employed but not eligible for SMP. IIRC it’s the same amount at SMP (which is **** all anyway).

I have been looking after one of our twins for a few days whilst the other is in hospital with mum having an operation. I have also been able to maintain about 30% productivity at work too. So I don’t see why maternity leave couldn’t involve some kind of home working incentive for women?