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Windows Server Experts… (Ours is finally dying!)
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monkey_boyFree Member
Morning,
Sadly aswell as my main job I have been lumped in as the ‘IT Guy’, my IT days were back in the world of NT/Windows 2000, I set our old faithful Dell Poweredge 800 up in 2004 and the old dear is starting to die..
Its the domain controller so it was chaos earlier, i think its a major hardware fault with her, anyway the boss has given me free reign to buy a new shiny server…
Am I correct in saying Domain controllers/AD still exists and still the main
Ive gone to an old Dell contact (we have an account) to get prices on new servers, it seems theres server 2012 and SBS Server is still knocking about.
Thing is we only have 23 users so we dont need anything mental, just a means of security and permissions to folder etc like the old days.
Cheers
PS- I did consider the new fancy cloud/google docs/apps or whatever its called but we only have a 5mb internet connection (on a good day) so i guess it would poop itself if i went this route?
MilkieFree MemberA whole 5mb connection. I can only dream of such things! We have 0.1-0.2mb connection.
I would suggest SBS, as it’s easy to setup and run. Runnning SBS 2003 here, want to upgrade but cannot be bothered yet.
monkey_boyFree Membercheers,
been reading up on it all, CLOUD scares me… our internet does drop now and again and if it was down for a long time you can’t do anything.
they do a new version of SBS now called server essentials, just the licensing is the killer
simon_gFull MemberThere won’t be another version of SBS beyond the current one (2011).
There’s an “essentials” version of SBS 2011, and this continues with Windows Server 2012 Essentials. These are meant for doing the in-house stuff (domain controller, file/print server, etc) with email and the rest being elsewhere, such as Office 365.
Caveat though: both “essentials” products have a 25 user limit – which may be a problem for you if you get a few more staff. On 2012 that means going to Standard edition.
CougarFull MemberWhat I’d do based on what you’ve said (ie, assuming it’s ‘just’ a DC and file server) is,
Buy a new server. Personally, I’d go HP.
Dcpromo it into the existing domain and allow it to replicate.
Move the FSMO roles to the new server.
Then worry about decommissioning the old one, or leave it ticking over as a backup DC if you can trust it not to eat the AD.
Crucially, if you want to retain your current security, you want to get the replacement in before the old one dies completely. Otherwise you’re looking at starting again from scratch or recovering the AD, neither of which is usually overly pleasant.
simon_gFull MemberAssuming it’s SBS you can run into a mire of complexities, especially around licensing – your new one needs to be a “full” Windows Server. If there’s two SBS domain controllers in the same domain for more than a week (ie. to move hardware), they start doing things like shutting down every hour.
Make sure you’ve got system state backups at least – as long as you have that (as well as any data you’re holding) then it’s pretty easy to recover if it completely dies.
monkey_boyFree Membercheers for replies….
still waiting for the prices from Dell, i quickly read up on Dcpromo to be honest i think i’ll try and set the new server up with all new users from scratch on the weekend when nobody is in and demote the old one.
good shout about number of users though as we are looking to get ‘new’ people in over the next 6 months.
xiphonFree MemberIs the server still alive???
Then I *highly* recommend ‘acquiring’ another server license and making a DC2 – even if it’s only a temp solution…. even an old spare PC would work!!
Means you can easily keep the current domain config, and don’t need to re-configure every workstation/laptop/desktop in the building…
And FWIW, I migrated our company from a single SBS 2003 to Server 2008 R2 standard domain.
We have 2 DCs, couple of file servers, couple of DBs, etc.
FuzzyWuzzyFull MemberOne server isn’t enough – you should have at least one main server and preferably a second decent one as well but it can be much lower spec if it’s just going to be a second domain controller.
I really wouldn’t rebuild the domain from scratch if you can help it, 23 people is a fair amount of admin hassle to recreate and then you’ve got user permissions to worry about, if you have any NTFS/share permissions in place you’ll need to recreate it all which is a complete PITA
Dell are a good choice for a new server(s), which model are you looking at specifically?
As you allude to, licensing the software is usually more painful than the actual hardware so consider carefully what you need. Besides file & print are you doing local email or anything as well?monkey_boyFree Membercheers all,
i’ll give more info…
current servers
Server 1 -Dying Dell poweredge 800 – It is still running but has flashing orange light which indicates power/fan failure – Main job is the DC with SAGE accounts installed and one other departments data combined only about 40gb of data on a mirrored 120gb RAID –
Server 2 – Dell NX200 Storage server 2008 – all other files 1tb drive loads of spaceI can easily move SAGE over, the reason i didnt was not to keep all eggs in one basket.
i think your right, my idea of settings everything back up on the new DC
will take alot longer than i have in my head, everything is NTFS with about 50 shares.and also agree dont think i’ll go the SBS route, just a standard server
I’m good on backups as ive been burnt years ago , you can never have enough backups!
Server i had quote back last year were..
PowerEdge T310 Tower Chassis,
Intel Xeon X3430 Processor (2.40GHz, 4C, 8M Cache, 95W TDP, Turbo),
DDR3-1333MHzxiphonFree MemberOur hardware is as follows. I did the migration at Xmas 2011..
SBS = HP DL380 G2 (from 2006 era) (Old dying server)
DC1 = HP DL120 G7 (Core i3, 4GB RAM, Server 2k8 r2) – brand new
DC2 = Dell SC1425 (Xeon 2.8G, 4GB RAM, Server 2k8 r2) – purchased in 2006..Both have single PSU, but as I have 2 DCs, PSU redundancy was not on the list (cost was too high for a dual PSU box)
Server1 (Main box) = DL380 G7 – brand new. (dual PSU)
Step 1 – join DC2 to SBS domain as member server
Step 2 – promote DC2 to DC status…. but NOT GC (yet)
Step 3 – join Server1 to SBS domain as member server
Step 4 – Move all user data from SBS to Server1 (i.e. new file server)
Step 5 – Join DC1 to SBS domain as member server.
Step 6 – DCPROMO DC2 to GC (which _demotes_ SBS)
Step 7 – DCPROMO DC1 to GC
Step 8 – upgrade Forest and Domain Functional Level to 2008 R2
Step 9 – Decommission SBS box…
Step 10 – Have a beer!GC = Global Catalog server
mossimusFree MemberWhat is your current domain 2003?
With 23 users and 50 shares I would be v tempted to just go for a brand new 2012 Domain, doesn’t seem like it would be too much work. There is a lot to be said for a nice clean AD.
monkey_boyFree Membercheers all ‘again’.
In layman’s terms…
If i was to do it the lazy way…..
1 – New server arrives
2 – Shut down existing old Poweredge 800 (the DC)
3 – Set-Up the NEW server as the DC, giving it a brand new DOMAIN name, install AD, DNS etc etc.
4 – Set-up all users again on the new AD
4 – Go to all PC’s join NEW domain.Would all PC’s still connect to their shared drives on the Windows Storage server? I guess not as the storage servers permissions on each folder would be linked to the ‘turned off’ original DC’s AD?
I know there is in theory a much easier way as stated above but… I’m scared 😳
cheers
monkey_boyFree MemberWhat is your current domain 2003?
With 23 users and 50 shares I would be v tempted to just go for a brand new 2012 Domain, doesn’t seem like it would be too much work. There is a lot to be said for a nice clean AD.
hi, yep its server 2003, i dont think DCPROMO will even be that easy?
mossimusFree MemberIf i was to do it the lazy way…..
1 – New server arrives
2 – Shut down existing old Poweredge 800 (the DC)
3 – Set-Up the NEW server as the DC, giving it a brand new DOMAIN name, install AD, DNS etc etc.
4 – Set-up all users again on the new AD
4 – Go to all PC’s join NEW domain.You should also configure another machine with following roles DC, DNS, DHCP (if you use it) and GC then should your new machine die your network will still function correctly
xiphonFree MemberWhat are you going about email?
SBS includes Exch…. Standard does not.
We moved to Google Apps Mail.
CougarFull Memberi quickly read up on Dcpromo to be honest i think i’ll try and set the new server up with all new users from scratch
Sooner you than me. I wouldn’t relish creating two dozen users and trying to recreate all the file security from scratch, along with DHCP / DNS and all that jazz.
Is the old server SBS? That’s a whole other can of worms. I assumed it was ‘just’ a DC / file server.
Just so you’re aware, dcpromo is deprecated in 2012, you do it through the GUI instead; you only really use dcpromo for disaster recovery. I’ve not done a 2012 migration but dcpromo is straight forward in 2k3/8 with an existing domain, you just point it at the old controller and wait a few hours.
I still think I’d want make DC2, replicate, decommission and then raise the functional level of the domain (assuming 2012 can talk to 2003, I’d have to look it up). Unless there’s a reason to abandon the old domain anyway.
CougarFull MemberWould all PC’s still connect to their shared drives on the Windows Storage server? I guess not as the storage servers permissions on each folder would be linked to the ‘turned off’ original DC’s AD?
Correct. The permissions are based on GUID, so even if you were to create a new domain with the same name and user accounts with the same names, they’d be “different” as far as the network’s concerned. Anything that’s locked down will be inaccessible.
Your call ultimately, but I wouldn’t do it unless I had to.
CougarFull Member(assuming 2012 can talk to 2003, I’d have to look it up)
I just did; the lowest domain functional level 2012 supports is 2003, so as long as it wasn’t originally a 2000 domain that you’ve never elevated, you’re golden. (If it was, you’ll need to do that first.)
CougarFull MemberIncidentally,
Yell if you want me to hook you up with my tame server supplier.
monkey_boyFree Membercheers guys/girls…
the poweredge is starting to make that horrible ‘chugging’ fan noise…
i have the system state backed up from last night and all files from it, boss has been sent the Dell quote and its his shout.
really dont know what to do until he decides… did warn him there was a chance of this happening..
another stupid question…
i could make everyone log on locally to their PC’s then just copy their files into a folder on their C:, trouble is what about the shared drives only for certain users?
sh*Te!!!
FuzzyWuzzyFull MemberDo you have a spare PC to hand? If the server’s making noises I’d just stick Windows Server on a PC and use that as a temp second DC (you don’t have to buy a licence for 120 days).
It’s well worth preserving the current AD IMO, you have enough users that it’s a hassle if you rebuild (for them as well as you) but not enough that you should have a bloated AD that could get any benefit from a fresh start. It’s not like you’ll have a complex replication topology or something going awry as you’ll just be a single site.
Our main UK domain started in Windows NT 3.51 days and has been upgraded through NT 4, 2000, 2003, 2008 and it’s now native 2008 R2 (with up to 400 users and 8 sites), it’s only recently we’ve had to spend any time tidying it up really (replication issues mostly).monkey_boyFree Member😯 found a spare pc, found the original windows 2003 server standard disc,just put serial key in…….
update to follow…
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