Helping out a family member. Have a 10yo business application now unsupported (we called the company) which had been running fine on an old computer which has now died. I have tried putting the drive in another machine as a slave and drive seems fine as all files visible but I cannot boot from it as it wants an activation code for XP (it recognises its in a different box ?). As a slave I can’t run the application as drivers etc not correct and old copy protection seems to spot that its not the same computer or we didn’t boot from that drive ?

As the business software is no longer supported we cannot get a reinstall code so I think we must boot / recreate the original hardware by putting the disk in another box as master ? We have another old computer we can put the drive in, its the old style with the wide / many pin data connection fitting

So, help / suggestions please.

Do I need an XP activation code and where can I get one ? I imagine Microsoft have no interest / ability to give one as its XP. Are these codes hardware specific, I am a bit surprised we cannot boot off the old drive without a code.

Thanks in advance.

depends how well it was tied to the old computer really..

ok first thing. i’m assuming old HDD is small. back it up right now to someething else. file by file and sector by sector if possible.

backing up is more important than anything else, even getting it working right now.

what i’d try.. its easy to get a dodgy xp iso off some torrent sites.. create a VM in virtual box on a modern machine, COPY from the backup the software folders and settings and try to get it running.

do you know what brand the copy protection is? (i’m a software engineer, and worked that business for 15+ years)

other thing to try with the XP. put the network card from the original dead machine in the machine you’re trying to run the XP on (XP uses several things to tie its activation against, network card MAC address being one of them)

final thing. how “dead” is the original machine? fixing it properly may be easier.

or.. claim “i don’t know computers”, i say “i write code, i don’t make em!” 😉

Give MS a call and ask them to activate Windows XP- the OS will have recognized that there have been significant hardware changes

Are you wanting to continue to use the old software or just collect data, it’s not clear. If it’s just data, are the files created by this software specific to that software?

If the former, is that wise, as youll always have a potential issue – would it not be better, if possible to harvest the data required, and and find a new software solution?

Thanks all.

Yes the drive is a whopping 40GB ! BIL says he has all the data he needs (ie none), we did ask. Its the application he wants. We have coped the app and driivers etc but it won’t run when copied to a second machine and I am a bit cautious aboit overwriting drivers/etc in windows/system32

I think the old machine has been binned sadly !

We need to continue to use the software. Sorry no idea about brand of copy protection/access control other than that it seems to exist and software co cannot (won’t) give us an activation code as its no longer supported.

Happy to call MS not sure what we will tell them regarding ID’s etc if they ask as old machine is gone.

Could we find some original CD’s with an XP code and could they work ?

I recently had to call MS for an activation issue, albeit with Win 10. The service I got was what prompted me to suggest calling them – they were friendly and helpful and got the issue sorted out. I would think that XP is a revenue stream that they are rather relaxed about these days and you won’t be the first to call them with a business critical machine that has long ago lost its certificate of authenticity.

Giving them a call should be the easiest first option.

What’s so special about the software? Even if you get it working now, there’ll be a next time when something else goes wrong. Isn’t there anything a bit more modern your BIL can use?

Sounds odd, I didn’t recall XP not booting if unregistered. It would at least start and then whinge like a good one. Did a couple of PCs in a similar way when hardware failed. It’s several years since I had to do anything with XP so this may be vague.

There used to be a link that would pop up advising you must activate to continue using Windows. If you chose Telephone then you’d get an automated service you entered your Windows Key, should be on a sticker on the old PC or at least provided with it.

The automated thing would then read back some numbers for you to type in and then it would all work (hopefully).

XP is out of support now so M$ may have turned the registration off now. You may have to do an internet search for dubious activation keys.

I had a clearout of old OSs a while back so don’t have anything to hand to see how it works.

More seriously have a strong word with the BIL, software like that is a risk. Worked in regulated industries where you have to use the same system for years and it’s horrible. Virtual Machines are possibly something to look at of that’s the case, depends if there any weird old interfaces\hardware.

Thanks again. Will try MS for sure.

If we find another XP machine can we give MS the ID off the back of that one ?
Is there a machine ID saved in a file somewhere on the old HDD ?

I think the issue is if the software doesn’t work the lab analysis kit is pretty useless too so overall replacement cost is many £1000’s. I am guessing a more modern piece of software won’t work with the old kit.

That might work, though some keys were fixed to certain manufacturers (e.g. Dell keys not working on non-Dell machines)

If the old machine was still up and running the you’d have been able to run some keyfinder utility to retrieve it but it’s encrypted in the registry and I don’t think you’ll be able to get it now.

Thanks again. Old machine died (I have an incling the fan failed and they just kept using it 🙁 ) and has been thrown out.

What was the make / model of the lab instrument?

the cd key I always used for xp began w7xtc. I do know the whole of it, off by heart, after about 15 years, but broadcasting it on here is probably a bad idea. If you google those 5 digits, I imagine you’ll find the rest though 🙂

There used to be a link that would pop up advising you must activate to continue using Windows. If you chose Telephone then you’d get an automated service you entered your Windows Key, should be on a sticker on the old PC or at least provided with it.

The automated thing would then read back some numbers for you to type in and then it would all work (hopefully).

‘s what I’d have thought.

When it “cannot boot”, what’s it actually doing? Be specific and verbose.

When it “cannot boot”, what’s it actually doing? Be specific and verbose.

The pc is long gone, apparently.
OP is trying to get the software working on something else.

verbose

😀 😀 😀

With the disk as slave and fhen picking it as the boot drive via startup options (F-whatever) we get the blue screen requiring us to enter a key or the menu options inc calling MS. The first screen shows the username of the one user setup on the machine, that part we like 🙂

We can’t type in a machine id as the dead box ex disk has been binned. The machine was 14 years old (hdd says 2002), there is no “key” info just lying around or in a drawer somewhere.

Totally agree about the backup suggestion. Copy the lot first so that you have a backup you can resort to.

As for Xp, you can still buy activation keys on line Through what appear to be reasonably kosher sources. But I’ve also found ms to be helpful when you explain the situation.

I strongly recommend you don’t download any old ISO file torrent as an installer for XP. It will have a virus in it . . . Been there with that.

I’d say you have your priorities wrong here.

Surely if you want to run this “business software” you should be looking for an install exe/iso for that that rather than trying to resurrect an operating system that gets flakey at best after many years of constant use never mind a complete personality transplant?

On the XP front though, what version is it? And what hardware did it come off of?

enter a key or the menu options inc calling MS.

Is there a telephone option? It’s an automated service, see allan’s post.

Indeed, I’d rescue the data first of all. I don’t know why anyone would want to run obscelete software on an unsupported operating system, that’s just storing up trouble. What software is it?

Xp itself is easily cracked, even officially by phoning them and blagging it.. I don’t think Microsoft give a damn about it anymore.

Is your “family member” called Queen Elizabeth?

http://m.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/15/windows_xp_royal_navy/

Install exe needs a licence key which is long lost and we called the software supplier who said they stopped supporting the software 2 years ago so cannot give us a replacement key for a re-install. I tried to say as much above.

I would also imagine the software wouldn’t run on something like W7 or 10, no ? We’ve had experience of previously functioni g hardware not working after upgrade from W7 to 10 despite drivers being available. In general I have found Windows software often does not work if you upgrade the OS. The whole VM idea is fine in theory but isn’t going to work here in practice imo.

On the XP front though, what version is it? And what hardware did it come off of?

No idea, it won’t start. No idea the BIL threw it away. 😉

Anyway here is a picture of the disk as threads are always beter with pictures 🙂

Thanks for those that have taken the time ro post

I think you’re shit out of luck.

Licence key will be stored sonewhere in the registry probably or displayed somewhere in the software, if you can get XP to run those would be my first ports of call. Provided he has the installer it should be easy enough from there.

Tell your BIL to sort his obselescence management out, between that Canon printer and this software he should have learnt a lesson or two by now.

Two different BILs. It’s fair to say neither follow my approach to tech, even my 2009 Mini is cutting edge in comparison.
“Obsolescence” ? It had been running 14 years with no problems, not connected to internet or network so no viruses etc

Still not sure what the ideal end game here is.. you can build an xp box if you really want to, you can get data off the drive if you wanted to.. why the fixation with running this mysterious ‘business’ application?

Yep work out the end game.
In the short term windowns allows you to create a VM from an old install. That would be my first port of call.
Next what is the software, what does it do and why is there no alternative?
If the data is out or not needed take the opportunity to replace the software with something modern.

“Obsolescence” ? It had been running 14 years with no problems, not connected to internet or network so no viruses etc

It’s very limited, wont update and your screwed if anything at all goes wrong. All very good reasons for moving along.

Yup Virtual Machine all the way.

We use Oracle Virtual Box, VMWare is another one I’ve used in the past, but I’m not sure it’s free anymore.

You should be able to use the old HDD as an image to exactly recreate the old machine.

Windows will most likely whinge at you, but I you can find an XP key it should come to life.

If the original software won’t license due to IP/MAC changes, then you’re looking at a dodgy cracked version or just biting the bullet and buying the newer version of the software if it exists.

Shit happens, if your BIL hasn’t being paying his service/maintenance, then that’s just a risk he’s been running 😉

Ah, lab instrument controller.

My first few IT jobs were in labs, moved into supporting the IT stuff from being in the white coat doing the lab work as IT paid more.

Virtual will probably be difficult as the instrument interfaces often give problems.

Sounds like you’re most of the way there, if you’re getting into XP and the activation prompt is popping up it should be simply getting he key in.

Fuzzy memory of XP licencing so may be wrong. M$ introduced the hardware checksum but I don’t think there was any other online check other than is it a genuine key, so the key from one of the other machines should work. Doesn’t sound like you’d have a volume licence so it would be either an OEM from a major manufacturer or a retail licence. I’d suspect OEM.

You may have to Google changing the key as it could be wanting confirmation of the one that was originally put in and seeing as BIL chucked that out you’d be a bit buggered.

Professional opinion, stuff works until it doesn’t, often for years. The trick is to know how quickly you can recover if it stops working and how screwed will your business be if you can no longer run the instrument.

If you absolutely have to run the risk of using old hardware, unsupported software and unsupported OS then never throw anything out. Keep the software, not just original media but back it up in case the media formats change and you can’t read the media in 10 years time. Keep the licence info, physically and backed up. Has he got a Fireproof Safe?

Keep hardware, if a PSU blows, keep the rest. You never know what spares you need.

There are IT companies that specialise in supporting really old kit. Older than XP sometimes, Z80 processors (that’s the ZX Spectrum processor) are still running more things than you realise. They usually cost though as they’re paying people to be experts on 20 or 30 years of hardware and operating systems.

So it’s possible to run old kit, your BIL hasn’t really made provision for managing his risks so is relying on your help and a bike forum on the internet.

Back to professional opinion, invest in an upgrade. Lab instruments are niche market things and support is specialist.

Good luck.

Get some pics up of exactly what is going on when you boot up the machine with your original 40Gb disk as primary. If it just needs activating due to hardware change then click the ‘activate over the phone’ option and it’ll generate a massive code, phone the number & enter the code on the phone, it’ll read another massive code back – type that into PC and you’re done. No human involved, no massive life story required to MS to explain circumstances, just 5 minutes pressing keys.

Once that’s done and you’re logged in, (and if it hasn’t blue screened by now) then get some drivers sorted for it and hopefully you’re done.

I look after a network of ~200 XP and Server 2003 machines – my days are filled with crap like this, it’s a bundle of laughs.

Your BIL may be surprised at the cost of replacement S/W and H/W. Tech has got cheaper over the last 15 years, plus he’ll have something that will work.

If it just needs activating due to hardware change then click the ‘activate over the phone’ option and it’ll generate a massive code, phone the number & enter the code on the phone, it’ll read another massive code back – type that into PC and you’re done. No human involved, no massive life story required to MS to explain circumstances, just 5 minutes pressing keys.

That’s the one, couldn’t remember if you needed the software key or not, but it generates something for you to put in over the phone.

All comes flooding back.

Of course once you sort the XP licence issues, you might still have issues with the copy protection on the application as it could be linked to the original hardware.

Running on Win 7 or 10 is a maybe if running in compatibility mode, but as you suspect the drivers will likely be the issue.

VM would run the software under XP without the hassle of trying to keep a machine running XP, but again the driver issue is likely. If the hardware is connected via USB then you may have a bit more luck if it’s relatively standard (but probably not). Serial port type of connection and may be better if the app just uses standard port comms.

Windows ‘pro’ editions come with Hyper-V which is a good VM, built in and free. Relies on newer PC hardware. Older versions of Windows have Virtual PC available.

That licence key for the lab software as said will likely be in the registry. Without booting the OS that’s hard to get at, but I think there are recovery tools/CDs you can use where you can boot into a recovery environment with the old hard disc attached and it may be able to access the Windows partition and even query the registry. Don’t know exactly what you need off hand though.

Of course once you sort the XP licence issues, you might still have issues with the copy protection on the application as it could be linked to the original hardware.

Not typically on lab software that old, stuff we supported used to be simple install, often with a key and usually written in real assembly language and compiled by some strange IT\Lab boffin on an industrial estate near Cambridge, we did get a few start to appear that needed USB licence sticks to be present.

Depending on the instrument you’d just spent 10s to 100s of thousands of pounds on the box that does the work, the PC and software is pretty useless without the instrument so there’s usually no real need to worry about licencing.

Thanks all.

The end game is clear (perhaps my original post wasn’t clear). All he wants us to run the instrument software. If we could have got a re-install code we would have just done that but supplier stopped giving codes 2 years ago – we called and asked. Have tried copying it / drivers to another xp machine but it won’t run.

The automated phone codes we will try. As usual there are youtube videos showing that.

As above not keen on VM and not sure that would work anyway with the app.

BIL isn’t relying on me, the topic came up in a conversation on holiday and we offered to help out. Mrs B likes this stuff too and was intrigued to see how you just run the disk as a slave for example.

OK, good to know – hope it goes well.

Shame they binned the original machine. IMO it would have been far easier to fix

I don’t know why anyone would want to run obscelete software on an unsupported operating system, that’s just storing up trouble. What software is it?

two things 🙂

1) i’m still in the computer security sector, just not copy protection any more. minimum support O/S for the software projects today is still XP, which makes things fun as newer versions of Windows have introduced new APIs which you have to jump through hoops to use because of XP compat. Also, latest development tools (Visual Studio) won’t 1) compile for XP by default anymore you have to turn that on. 2) will not remote debug XP anymore.

(stats for our software show that 90% of people are running Win7 X64, but win10 is on the up)

2) one of our bigest banks has a system that STILL runs on Windows 3.1 (not not even Windows For Workgroups / 3.11) apparently fail they have to scour eBay for certain 286 era hardware to keep enough spares to keep this stuff running!

😯 Holy cow.

I saw an ATM reboot a few months back. It was running OS/2 Warp.

We had DOS 6.1 on 486 up until a few years back. That still worked. Shame about the NT3.51? stuff (although tbf that was more the office macros than the OS).
Sometimes when we buy kit it has to be operational for 5 years development phase plus 15 years production.
The Unix/VMS stuff got one hardware and one 32-64bit migration in that time. The M$ stuff, sod it. Easier to keep old kit running until there’s none left.

Can’t help with the OP problem though.