adam, mike an retro are right guys

correct me if im wrong but dont microsoft use linux servers

😉

You’re overstating it heavily. The vast majority of users use only one OS and it’s Windows. A higher percentage of MacOS users are using a different OS, and I’m sure an even higher percentage of Linux users are.

Windows may not be the best OS, but it’s the most useful and versatile because it’s the most widely supported, in turn because it’s the most popular. This isn’t really controversial is it?

correct me if im wrong but dont microsoft use linux servers

We’re talking about desktop users – the server environment is a totally different debate.

many linux users use muliple distros
i use mint most but i like puppy linux too
an ive used maybe 15 diffrent linux os

i have heard quite a few people say they want windows 7 back as they hate 8 an 8.1

each to there own, but if i take my brother as an example he bought a windy 8 machine he hates it but he now
wants win7 on it and 8 so he can use the os he likes an also say an show to people hes got the latest trendy new os
even though he hates it 😆

Nope, unless the Windows team – that need Windows to manage their Windows servers are also tautologous.

It is. That’s the environment dictating the choice of OS, it’s not indicative of how one or the other is fundamentally “better.” To borrow our erstwhile colleague’s analogy; if you’re servicing a Ford Anglia, you’ll need a box of Imperial spanners. You’re describing very specific circumstances, and whilst I was being flippant for comedic effect when I said “no-one” I was really talking in the context of home users.

Look how many Mac OS users run Parallels, Fusion or VBox to run some Windows software they can’t get on OSX.

Look how many Windows users use virtualisation to run OSX software… oh.

When you’re talking thousands of servers you can’t log into each, you need a good regime with trusted servers (note: not windows).

Of course. But that’s apples and oranges compared to a desktop PC in someone’s living room.

an ive used maybe 15 diffrent linux os

This always makes me laugh. Bemoaning Windows for having a monthly patch schedule and then spending half your life formatting and rebuilding with a different version. What’s wrong with the one you’ve got?

I’ve been using Microsoft operating systems since DOS 3.3. So in, what, twenty years, I’ve been through five incarnations of Windows on my home PCs. (3.1, 98, XP, Vista, W7.) 3.1 aside as it was made of cheese, I think I’ve formatted and reinstalled twice.

Linux is great in a lot of ways, and I use it semi-regularly by nature of my job (live CDs is Linux’s “killer app” for me), but if the best thing you can come up with as a discussion point is a variation on “Windoze” (and the fact that you appear to be related to an idiot) then you’ve already lost the argument.

Apart from me. I don’t own a copy of windows. I don’t need one.

I do, however, have a chromebook and it does everything I need for day-to-day home needs. I regularly create documents, browse, email etc. That’s why PC sales are dropping in favour of tablets (which usually run a form of *nix 😀 ) as PCs are generally major overkill for a lot of stuff.

I do, however, have a chromebook and it does everything I need for day-to-day home needs.

<nods> there is a bit of a paradigm shift going on at the moment in the way people do things. Folk used to go and splash £1500 on what was in all but name a gaming rig in order to send email, surf the net and write the occasional letter. I did it myself.

These days, people want to spod in front of the TV, play a couple of intellectually devoid games, and not have to wait five minutes for a half-kilowatt PC to whirr into life. And technology has finally caught up, computers are powerful enough – hell, phones are powerful enough – to scratch that itch without spending a fortune. Lightweight, portable, instant-on, it’s not hard to see why this stuff is gaining ground.

I wonder how long it is before home PCs are seen as an anachronism outside of “home office” and teenagers fragging each other. Why would you have a ‘big box’ PC sitting there when the iPad does everything you need? I had a play with a Surface last week; it’s surprisingly good technology, really nice thing. Suddenly, even a netbook seems like a clumsy solution.

you’ve already lost the argument.

you assume to much, that a debate is an argument?,
im just saying my point of view

ive been with linux mint since version 10 i think but ive tried lots of os via usb an live cd, i thought that 15 was ok but i love 16 so for the 1st time in a long time ive installed it on 3 pcs

spending half your life formatting and rebuilding

now you must be thinking of windows not linux

With 8.1 there is no little to no interaction with tile-based Modern interface (formerly known as Metro) in daily use. Pinning most needed programs to task bar and removing most of the tiles (leaving desktop, weather and a news tile) solved most of the interface clumsiness for me.

There are plenty of annoying features left (duplicated but differing control panel features, network selection stuff etc) but most are one-time problems. Although I admit +20year IT career might have already killed any feelings capable of getting annoyed by any OS.

With 8.1 there is no little to no interaction with tile-based Modern interface

It is a more polished turd, but that isn’t much of a recommedation.

The sad fact is that Windows 8 was designed and built with the sole intention of making money for Microsoft. Between the crappy app store and the deliberate attempts to make it unlike previous versions they managed to break Windows and create a ( relative ) flop.

Cougar your a Moderator an your calling me an idiot for having a point of view
fair enough, yeah rubber keys spectrum , an acorns bbc i think were my 1st machines
ah the good ole days 🙂

no, I think your just coming across as an idiot 😉

live CDs is Linux’s “killer app” for me

Linux killer apps, for me:

Servers
Customisation for specific use
Low resource consumption
Security (although that doesn’t stop my company from making me run AV on Linux 🙁 )

Windows killer apps:

Desktop experience
Hardware support
Software availability

I wonder how long it is before home PCs are seen as an anachronism outside of “home office” and teenagers fragging each other.

Not long at all, about as long as it takes everyone’s current PC to expire.

To be fair the W8 kernel/system is pretty fast on modern hardware. I just hate the metro interface where it isn’t needed. I shouldn’t have to put in fudges to make the machine work the way I want (Classic shell etc.). The forcing of the metro interface on just about anything with Microsoft code on it is more an exercise by management bods. They could have killed all the hate by simply giving a choice – metro or classic, and attempted to coax people to the metro interface as time went on.

It took me ages when I first started a W8 machine to work out how to turn the damned thing off! I hear the next version of W8 will actually have a button on the metro interface for shutdown/standby. Why they didn’t do that in the first place is a mystery to me, as Toyah would say. 😀

no, I think your just coming across as an idiot,

thank you for your 1 fantastic bit of input in this thread,

do you use windows or linux? do tell us 😮

i dont mind being singled out for abuse based on nothing,
insults only come from people who hate an all haters are stupid

molgrips an adam have said what needs to be said an there 100%
correct,an by the sounds of it, its there job to know

mac an windows serve there purpose as tools for what there good for, native gaming an music software, I’ve used linux to save lost data from hdd’s from machines running windows os never the other way around though,

those fancy effects in Hollywood movies are mostly made on linux machines,
everyone thinks its all done on macs. xbox360 games were made on macs though.

if you choose to shop an online bank on windows over linux well good luck with that, each os has its strong point
an windows security is week, hence there being a large market for
3rd party security software.

I’ve never had a virus or any other security issues on linux
how many windows users can say that ? 8)

thank you for your 1 fantastic bit of input in this thread,

cheers I’m glad you enjoyed it as much as I did 😈

no, I think your just coming across as an idiot,

+1, learn to use quotes properly for a start…

I shouldn’t have to put in fudges to make the machine work the way I want

But the way you want is the way that’s been forced on you the last time Windows was updated..

so are you going to talk about the subject or just nit pick
about how some text looks in a forum?

z1ppy

.

19 words of nothing in 2 posts
you must have lots of spare time on your hands

so are you going to contibute or just b1tch like a sissy 😀

LOL sticks & stones, I’m not the one making himself look stupid, keep diggin!

I’m scared of change so I still use a quill.

Seriously though, there’s an update in a few weeks that will allow apps to run from the desktop and instate the old minimize/expand/close buttons to apps, so now no need to go near Metro at all. I think any advice to go out and buy Windows 7 instead of 8.1 is very bad.

your the only one who looks stupid zippy

Try 8.1 set to boot to desktop and with the start button turned on before you go through the hassle of going back to 7. I actually prefer it to 7 set up like that

Cougar your a Moderator an your calling me an idiot for having a point of view

No, I called your brother an idiot. Do pay attention.

i dont mind being singled out for abuse based on nothing,

I really don’t think that’s what’s happening here.

an windows security is week, hence there being a large market for
3rd party security software.

I’ve never had a virus or any other security issues on linux

There’s a large market for third party security software because a) Windows anything is by definition a large market and b) companies like to make money.

Windows is targeted by malware writers for the same reason. Say you’re writing a virus; do you aim it at the platform with 90% of the market share, or 2%? You want Linux to compete with Windows, all I can say there is, be careful what you wish for. Outside of the server market, Linux’s single biggest security feature is obscurity.

By a country mile, the single biggest cause of infections on modern Windows platforms is user error, with out of date copies of Flash and Java being the biggest source of technical exploits (which is arguably still user error). Windows is comparatively secure and stable these days, though Apple / Linux fanboys do like to talk as though we’re still all running Windows 95. I can’t remember the last time I saw a virus alert on any of my own machines (except when actively testing an infection), it’s almost certainly pre-Vista days for me.

Just because you aren’t aware of security issues and bugs in Linux doesn’t mean their isn’t any. What do you think all those files are for when you run apt-get?

Back on subject, HAPPY BUNNY, why I hear you all shout.

Well after a year of putting up with Windows 8, even upgrading to 8.1 I’ve had enough.
Now the proud owner of “Classic Shell”

But the way you want is the way that’s been forced on you the last time Windows was updated..

Oh excellent! So I have a start button that doesn’t take me to metro any more? That’s how I want to work. Or is it just a button that does the same as the physical windows button that takes you to the mess that is Metro?

There really have been a bunch of missteps over the years. Windows generally really needs a “this is the thousandth time I’ve installed Windows, stop asking me dull questions” option. A simple “export Setup settings” function would be ace. “Welcome to Internet Explorer,” yay, I’ve never seen IE before. **** off.

Windows 8, fundamentally, needs an “I don’t have a touchscreen device” button.

I wish one of you lot had been with me when I bought this pile of crap.

Signed, Backward 57 yr old of North Yorkshire.

Cougar – Moderator
Look how many Windows users use virtualisation to run OSX software… oh.

So? OSX cannot be virtualised (easily) due to licencing/compatibility issues.

Under your definition Windows has completely failed as an OS because as per my example some obscure genetics programme is not available or is not fast enough on it, and therefore the users have to use Linux to perform that particular task instead. I don’t understand what point you are trying to make?

I don’t understand what point you are trying to make?

The point I’m trying to make is that for all the claims from some camps that “windoze is the shitzor,” you quite often find users of other OSes still want to dual-boot / VM Windows for things their favoured OS can’t do. The reverse is almost universally untrue *for typical users*.

Actually, that’s not my point. My point is that I’m getting increasingly bored with hearing “facts” trotted out that haven’t had any bearing in reality since Windows 98 / NT4 days.

Windows is targeted by malware writers for the same reason. Say you’re writing a virus; do you aim it at the platform with 90% of the market share, or 2%?

What about Macs? You hear that they’re so secure, my boss is a district councillor and they’ve all been told to buy, or rent, an iPad for council work. Are they inherently more secure than Windows or is just the fact that nobody bothers to write viruses for them?

Cheers,
Jamie

As soon as Google Drive is supported natively in Linux I may well put Debian on the main laptop at home. I’m sure the wife won’t mind…

Cheers,
Jamie

The iPad is much more locked down with apps having restricted access, which does make them more secure, but nothing is 100% secure.

Cougar – Moderator
The point I’m trying to make is that for all the claims from some camps that “windoze is the shitzor,” you quite often find users of other OSes still want to dual-boot / VM Windows for things their favoured OS can’t do. The reverse is almost universally untrue *for typical users*.

Actually, that’s not my point. My point is that I’m getting increasingly bored with hearing “facts” trotted out that haven’t had any bearing in reality since Windows 98 / NT4 days.

You’ve not heard it from me, I like W8, aside from the Interface-Formerly-Known-As-Metro-Which-Literally-Nobody-Aside-From-Molgrips-Likes.

Your original point which I disagreed with was that if a particular piece of software or functionality is not available and the user has to dual boot/use virtualisation, then the OS is a failure. This is obviously not the case, but it sounds like I missed some context from earlier in the thread.

Well, I’m thinking of going to Linux for my main work OS. Mostly because Windows takes to long to stop faffing around and start working when I start up, and hibernate isn’t working.

Now both those things are almost certainly not MS’s fault, but I’m just going to switch and see how I get on. I will be using Windows in a VM though.

Your original point which I disagreed with was that if a particular piece of software or functionality is not available and the user has to dual boot/use virtualisation, then the OS is a failure. This is obviously not the case, but it sounds like I missed some context from earlier in the thread.

I may not have been entirely serious. Where I was going was that if you need to reach for another tool to do a job, then (assuming you’re not doing anything specialised) you have to question whether you’ve got the right tool in the first place. “some obscure genetics programme” isn’t really regular use, it’s a fairly atypical requirement.

Putting that the other way around; if Linux (or OSX) is going to challenge Windows for desktop supremacy, it needs to get to a point where this hybridisation is no longer necessary. I’d genuinely like to see that happen.

Cougar – Moderator
I may not have been entirely serious. Where I was going was that if you need to reach for another tool to do a job, then (assuming you’re not doing anything specialised) you have to question whether you’ve got the right tool in the first place. “some obscure genetics programme” isn’t really regular use, it’s a fairly atypical requirement.

No but just because a particular tool cannot help every situation, doesn’t make it any less valid as a tool.

I don’t think it’s atypical either, a lot of people have an application or bit of hardware that they seldom use but does not work on their OS of choice. The scientists were just one example that sprung to mind.

My Dad uses VMWare Player to use his slide scanner which only runs on XP and not 7 or 8. My wife dual boots 10.5 and 7 on her Macbook because her interactive whiteboard software only runs on XP or <10.6 but some other stuff she uses day to day needs a recent Windows build (her VPN client or something).

Cougar – Moderator
Putting that the other way around; if Linux (or OSX) is going to challenge Windows for desktop supremacy, it needs to get to a point where this hybridisation is no longer necessary. I’d genuinely like to see that happen.

Well in a roundabout way it’s already happening via iOS, Android, and ChromeOS. Virtually all of my company’s products now have a requirement to run well on iPads for example.

Compatibility Mode not work?

This looks like a best of both worlds approach! VM Win or Mac but boot ChromeOS. I’m in!

http://www.engadget.com/2014/02/13/google-vmware-chromebooks-windows-remote/