Will self determination ultimately undo Alex Salmond?

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  • Will self determination ultimately undo Alex Salmond?
  • Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    Will self-determination be taken to the logical conclusion of allowing the Orkney and Shetland islanders to vote separately on what part of the Union, if any, they want to be a part of?

    If the article in today’s Torygraph is to be believed, they do not want to be governed by Edinburgh. They prefer either (1) the Union or (2) independence themselves. At the very least, they want to extend Salmond’s principles further along the curve to say that they should have a much greater portion of oil and gas revenues for themselves.

    Why should Salmond be the only politician who is able to use oil wealth to argue for self-determination?

    Or maybe, they should rejoin Norway (based on the same historical arguments put forward by the SNP) and they could have the revenue!!

    Interesting irony to all of this!!

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    If the article in today’s Torygraph is to be believed

    Its not.

    there is no significant independence movement on the islands.

    should Glasgow get a separate vote? Berwick?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    They could set up an ‘Arc of Prosperity’ with the Falkland Islands 😀

    wrecker
    Member

    Its not.

    Well that’s that sorted then!

    there is no significant independence movement on the islands.

    Not yet

    The british govt will be encouraging the S&O isles to push for this. If the islanders decide that they want a vote, then they should absolutely get one.

    hora
    Member

    Class, 2 mins after posting and TJ’s there! 😀

    jota180
    Member

    The biggest issue will remain the EU

    They will have to go into the referendum without knowing whether or not they’ll stay as an EU member, have to re-apply, take the € or stay with the £
    The EU have already said they can’t make a decision until after any referendum

    Too many unknowns IMO – it’s going to end up like a Rumsfeld speech

    hora
    Member

    have a much greater portion of oil and gas revenues for themselves.

    One day its going to run out…..what will happen then if they stand alone? Be a Golf resort?

    wrecker
    Member

    Be a Golf resort?

    Is it hilly? I may have an idea…..

    ohnohesback
    Member

    They’ll fall for the Great Windpower Con…

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    One day its going to run out…..what will happen then if they stand alone?

    They’re going to put 7 wind turbines in everyone’s back garden, and supply the rest of Europe with renewable energy

    Oh…. and shortbread. Don’t forget the shortbread exports

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    TandemJeremy – Member
    If the article in today’s Torygraph is to be believed
    Its not.

    there is no significant independence movement on the islands.

    Ah, Sophism isn’t dead, phew!!

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    should Glasgow get a separate vote? Berwick?

    Scotland, Cornwall….?

    Very convenient for Sturgeon to categorically state that the islanders are, “not a nation” (even though the SNP had previously recognised their right to decide their own future). Hmmmm……

    Given that it takes less muscles to smile than it does to frown… is it possible that there is an untapped energy source here?

    konabunny
    Member

    ha ha ha @ tsy!

    They will have to go into the referendum without knowing whether or not they’ll … take the € or stay with the £

    As an aside, it would of course be open to an independent Scotland to form its own currency or adopt a foreign currency that is neither the pound nor the Euro. On a practical basis, I doubt that would happen.

    druidh
    Member

    teamhurtmore – Member
    If the article in today’s Torygraph is to be believed,

    That’s your problem, right there.

    BikePawl
    Member

    And to go one better than Braveheart, the Scottish Government are promoting a Disney film

    I think we’ll all have to wear government issue “see you jimmy hats” in the future

    jota180
    Member

    As an aside, it would of course be open to an independent Scotland to form its own currency or adopt a foreign currency that is neither the pound nor the Euro

    I guess that would depend on the terms of any EU deal [possible compulsory €] – which the good folks of Scotland will be unaware of until after the referendum

    druidh
    Member

    International law suggests that the Orkneys and Shetlands would be treated as an enclave on the “Scottish” continental shelf and would only have mineral rights over an area some 12 miles out from their coast – i.e. an area which currently contains no oil or gas fields.

    http://www.ejil.org/pdfs/12/1/505.pdf

    wrecker
    Member

    So everyone is wrong about the S&O’s oil/gas entitlements then?
    I don’t think so.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    International law suggests that the Orkneys and Shetlands would be treated as an enclave on the “Scottish” continental shelf and would only have mineral rights over an area some 12 miles out from their coast – i.e. an area which currently contains no oil or gas fields

    Ah – so Scotland is actually an enclave on the UK continental shelf – it seems they’re a bit stuffed.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    Thanks for posting that druidh, but not sure about your conclusion. This is one person’s interpretation of IL, not IL itself surely?

    (page 104?)

    druidh
    Member

    thm – law “is” opinion 🙂

    The “in my opinion” comment seems to refer to the possibility of extending the O&S rights beyond the minimum in order to safeguard some rights for them and to prevent a dispute with Norway and Denmark. Or have I read it wrong?

    konabunny
    Member

    International law suggests that the Orkneys and Shetlands would be treated as an enclave on the “Scottish” continental shelf and would only have mineral rights over an area some 12 miles out from their coast

    That’s not what the article says – it says there are several models which might be applied and that the enclave model wouldn’t necessarily be 12 miles. See p.103.

    wrecker
    Member

    I wouldn’t take it too seriously anyway. It’s one paper written by a scottish based lawyer with more expertise in religion than in international boundaries.

    konabunny
    Member

    I wouldn’t take it too seriously anyway

    Did you actually read it or just google the author’s name?

    druidh
    Member

    konabunny – Member
    Did you actually read it or just google the author’s name?

    If he read it after I first posted the link then he has some pretty impressive fast reading skills.

    Kit
    Member

    I’d like to know how oil and gas will support Scotland beyond 20-30 years, to be honest…


    Production Data by Ginger F0x, on Flickr

    (2011 data only to June)

    wrecker
    Member

    Kit seems to like female midriffs……. 😀

    Kit
    Member

    Kit seems to like female midriffs…….

    You’re not wrong there 😉

    druidh
    Member

    It’s the bits above and below he’s uncertain about.

    jota180
    Member

    You seem to need a yahoo acc to access that graph

    Kit
    Member

    jota – you can basically read it from my post – volumes of oil, gas, associated gas and gas condensate produced from the UK North sea from 1976 – 2011, in millions of cubic meters. The trend is downward with only around 20 years worth of production left at current rates. This assumes no significant new discoveries (highly unlikely) and no CO2 enhanced oil recovery (still too expensive).

    jota180
    Member

    jota – you can basically read it from my post

    Not with my eyes you can’t 🙂

    anyway, I guess it’s much the same detail as in the link I posted earlier

    Kit
    Member

    Not with my eyes you can’t

    Sorry about that 🙁 And yes, the Bloomberg report cites DECC data, from which my graph was drawn.

    Premier Icon bigjim
    Subscriber

    Well, there will be a lot of money in decommissioning oil fields, so that’ll provide some income for a few years, though the work is already under way for some fields. Some fields are having their lives extended and new areas like the deep west of shetland waters are being moved into, so there is some life in oil yet, but not much.

    Independance would be a disaster for Scotland and would set our ‘poor man of europe’ status in stone for generations.

    ditch_jockey
    Member

    Independance would be a disaster for Scotland and would set our ‘poor man of europe’ status in stone for generations.

    Bollocks.

    Premier Icon bigjim
    Subscriber

    Bollocks.

    I know, its scary innit!

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