GrahamS you appear to be mixing up The real world with some ideal.
/Dream…
Kid I need a computer for School Dad…
Dad OK I’ll buy the parts and install Fedora and open Office for you. it’s safe secure and will do almost everything you need school wise.

I know plenty of folk that would/could do exactly that if it was practical. Judging by the number of people on this forum interested in Raspberry Pi I suspect so do you 😀

/Reality….
Kid I need a Computer for School Dad…
Dad hops in car off to PC World!

But wasn’t your point that you had to cater for low incomes as well. Surely such folk would be far better going down the 3rd hand laptop + Ubuntu route, rather than splashing out on a new PC from an overpriced retailer.

I can’t recall seeing any learning platform in use that relies on ActiveX controls.

Fair enough – it’s been a good few years since I had a look at anything like that. I know my mates wife is a teacher and he had a few issues with a non-Windows setup for her. Perhaps things have improved. (If you can call Java an improvement 😕 )

But wasn’t your point that you had to cater for low incomes as well. Surely such folk would be far better going down the 3rd hand laptop + Ubuntu route, rather than splashing out on a new PC from an overpriced retailer.

Indeed my point was. You’re assuming IT literacy here. A large amount of the populous doesn’t even know Unix exists. They will just hock themselves up to the eyeballs on the Visa/Provi and buy what is easy to get and in the shop.

God help us the Reliance on Java is bloody awful and the sooner people start developing properly, drop Java and embrace HTML 5 the better.

pretty pants for kids level serious work. think equations etc.
?? Pretty sure iPads can do sums.

Equations in documents. Dead easy in Word with the built in (and jolly good) equation editor, a pain in some other word processing things.

Things like equation editing are part of why completely web based things aren’t quite there yet. Google docs has an equation editor, but it a)is dead hard to use and b)isn’t compatible with word doc files (it just puts them in as images in the doc file).

The thing about anything other than office that is conventional software (eg. openoffice, apple pages or whatever), is that it’ll be a pain to implement and support currently in a world where probably 90% of students have access to office already, and only a tiny minority have the alternative software installed. The obvious future thing to do is move towards some kind of web technology based thing that will just work anywhere on any device, but we are still way off having a decent web based word processor or page layout package, let alone a decent spreadsheet. Which is a bummer. Maybe in 5 years or so, google docs / drive will be good enough, but right now it isn’t even near a really old version of Word, let alone the quite polished current versions.

As long as they can copy and paste from wikipedia anything will do. That is the usual standard of work I have handed in to me each week for homework – and I am an ICT and computing teacher!

Also, about Linux. I work in a Computer Science department, at an okay university. We do a lot of development and most people are quite techy to say the least. There are certainly projects using Linux for development and most of the servers are Linux, but I can’t think of anyone who I work with regularly who runs a Linux machine as their main desktop machine. I’m sure there are a few people dotted round the lab, but almost everyone seems to be either Windows or Mac.

Equations in documents. Dead easy in Word with the built in (and jolly good) equation editor, a pain in some other word processing things.

Well if they can’t even be bothered to learn LaTeX joe… 😀

Yeah I see what you mean now. This video suggests using the MathBot app to enter equations into Pages on iPad, which looks okay (even in the painfully slow hands of the presenter), but they do get rendered as images as you mentioned.

I do IT in a school. I’ll have you know that all of our computers boot into Linux
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that is then used as a platform to host a Windows XP VM.

I’d echo the comments already made about the iPad … It’s a content consumption device which it’s very good at. It’s harder to create from scratch on it though. I’d love to use it more to create stuff, but there is just too much workaround to the steps of doing it.

I’d say go the laptop route .

God help us the Reliance on Java is bloody awful and the sooner people start developing properly, drop Java and embrace HTML 5 the better.

Yes, whoever thought that Java is a proper programming language with sophisticated JIT compilers behind it must have been crazy – markup is the way to go for flexible development.

Why not get an apple laptop ?

If it all goes pearshaped you can run Windows in a VM.

My friends daughter does all her homework on an iMac without problem.

Why not get an apple laptop ?

Show me one I can have for £300-£400 please 😕

They will just hock themselves up to the eyeballs on the Visa/Provi and buy what is easy to get and in the shop.

What you mean £300 for a laptop with Windows 7 pre installed. poor attempt at a straw man.
Whats your alternative? a older laptop and Ubuntu? The fact is that running Ubuntu (or any other version) on an old low spec laptop is not the great experience you infer. If the laptop is slow Ubuntu will run only a tiny amount faster than XP and I know because I have experience of it.
Put on the esoteric applications that are pretty crap (because if they were any good people would be charging for them) and then try to get your kids to use them when they are surrounded by their peers all using MS.
All they will do is waste time learning apps that are rubbish to everyone but the fanbois instead of concentrating on learning and using standard applications that add value and will be in use in the environment they will experience when they join the workforce.

Yes, whoever thought that Java is a proper programming language with sophisticated JIT compilers behind it must have been crazy – markup is the way to go for flexible development.

You misunderstand me. Java in itself is excellent. Javascript Excellent. However the Java VM as a browser plugin should be ditched as soon as possible. Just my opinion and it’s likely to stay that way 🙄

Show me one I can have for £300-£400 please

plenty of the older style white macbooks for that sort of money and less on ebay.

we have one that is about five years old and still works great.

Show me one I can have for £300-£400 please

Second hand Macbook. I saw a MBPro 13″ go for £400 on TalkPhotography forum.

Bought a Lenovo i5 Desktop as per the reality above. Then installed Open Office as per dream. About £350 with full memory upgrade, I think. Get a Desktop, they are faster, fixed and cheaper.

Caveat; Son2’s homework was saved as a ppt presentation to be read at school, and he didn’t realize that they are running Open Office so couldn’t work out how to open it.

I don’t view tablets as work generation devices. Notetaking may be the exception.

One last point, is MyMaths a flash site? it’s almost certainly the defacto goto for maths homework inmany schools.

The iPad version of Excel is pretty much unusable to anyone other than a diehard Apple fan who would be prepared to overlook any shortcomings and perceive them as features. The Word processor is better but the tablet format is never going to be conducive to real data or text input.

Can I ask why? We’re at the stage we need to replace our household computers and are thinking of going down the Apple route, but aren’t hugely knowledgeable on the subject. We’re looking for a straightforward word processor, straightforward spreadsheet, systems that are reliable and easy to use, good for browsing the web and with good back up facilities. We’re thinking of going the whole Apple-hog ie i-Phones, i-Pad etc. Smart move or dumb?

I’ve got iPad and laptop.ipad for browsing and playing a few games anything serious like excell word or photo editing has to be the laptop no contest.

kennyp – Member
The iPad version of Excel is pretty much unusable to anyone other than a diehard Apple fan who would be prepared to overlook any shortcomings and perceive them as features. The Word processor is better but the tablet format is never going to be conducive to real data or text input.
Can I ask why? We’re at the stage we need to replace our household computers and are thinking of going down the Apple route, but aren’t hugely knowledgeable on the subject. We’re looking for a straightforward word processor, straightforward spreadsheet, systems that are reliable and easy to use, good for browsing the web and with good back up facilities. We’re thinking of going the whole Apple-hog ie i-Phones, i-Pad etc. Smart move or dumb?

Nothing wrong with an Apple PC or laptop, the question originally asked was about the iPad and its use as a homework device which is questionable and depends very much on the schools own IT system and demands, they tend to be PC based and for a long time didn’t acknowledge or support Macs. Nowadays the two platforms are pretty easy to swap files between Office programmes (with the exception maybe of the MS Access database which shouldn’t be a problem).
So, if you have a desktop or laptop Mac, then it would make perfect sense to go the whole hog and get ipad & iphones, since they sync together very easily and you can swap files between them all.

Can I ask why? We’re at the stage we need to replace our household computers and are thinking of going down the Apple route, but aren’t hugely knowledgeable on the subject.

Then I would suggest you think hard about the cost. I use and iPhone for work and I think its great but I wouldnt have an iMac over a PC for me there are no benefits over a standard laptop.
Borrow an iPad and as others have said it is great for sitting on the couch surfing, watching movies or using apps for fun, it is not an input device and you will see that for yourself.

If you must have a tablet, and he must be able to do homework on it, buy the Asus Transformer Prime. It comes with a keyboard dock for when you need to type (which rather cutely increases oomph and battery life when used) and stomps on every other tablet for spec and functionality, and costs less than an iPad.

That said, when you’ve got the point where your kids expect a specific 5-600 quid noddy toy computer for their birthday while trying to con you that it’s “for homework” (an xBox would be as much use) then a sound thrashing and bed with no tea seems more in order. Homework is done with chalk and slate, or if you’re ridiculously modern – quill and paper!

just bought one these for my ipad. been using it for an hour or so now and really impressed.

keynote is good.
pages is ok.
numbers is guff.

My laptop has one buit in, as well as USB ports a CD writer and a HDMI port.

i’m pleased for you.

My laptop has one buit in, as well as USB ports a CD writer and a HDMI port.

My car has wheels, and seats and a radio. What was your point again?

I think his point was that jam bo has bought add-on wheels for his car which didn’t come with them, but it still doesn’t have seats or a radio.

Oh noes – do we really still have to glitchy bump?

igrf and surfer……thanks for the replies. I’ve spoken to someone who has an i-Pad so am going to have a play about with it.

When you say it’s “not a good input device”, what exactly are you meaning (apologies if that’s a daft question)? Are you talking about the ease of typing something? Or…?

The appeal of Apple is the thought of various devices that easily integrate with each other and are straightforward to use. Also I’ve heard good things about the way they back files up, which is important to us. Not overly fussed about cost if we get a good product, as long as it isn’t silly money.

Are you talking about the ease of typing something?

Just the use of the on screen keyboard which is so poor for typing anything more than an E:mail or tweet that people go out and buy external ones. see above. Not specific to Apple as its the same on other tablets and phones and they are good at what they do but if you want to write a longer document its very frustrating.

devices that easily integrate with each other

PC’s integrate very easily as well and it is easy to integrate between PC’s and Apples so you don’t need to be tied to one platform.

but it still doesn’t have seats or a radio.

I am sure Apple will sell them soon and their will be no shortage of customers. 🙄

Just the use of the on screen keyboard which is so poor for typing anything more than an E:mail or tweet that people go out and buy external ones

Cheers, that puts my mind at rest a bit. I don’t mind getting an external keyboard.

Enjoy

We have a number of tablets ipad PlayBook and an Archos and my new purchase an acer transformer prime. You can do homework on all of them but the transformer prime is definitely the best and it come with a keyboard too. The prime is a DROID tablet and is the best tablet I have used ok there isn’t the number of applications but it’s growing everyday. Try the prime and see what you think.

kennyp – Member
igrf and surfer……thanks for the replies. I’ve spoken to someone who has an i-Pad so am going to have a play about with it.

When you say it’s “not a good input device”, what exactly are you meaning

We bought her a bluetooth case/keyboard combination which sorts the input issues out, the iPad just becomes a screen, it cost about 60 quid, there are a couple of types with varying keyboards.

I’ve been a committed Mac person for thirty years, and have always found their stuff reliable, innovative and intuitive, have never been one for manuals, I don’t know anyone who switched to Apple then went back unless forced by work constraints.

I don’t know anyone who switched to Apple then went back unless forced by work constraints.

I stopped using Apples in 1993 after 6 years use, it was very good but didn’t have the software I needed.

mefty – Member
I don’t know anyone who switched to Apple then went back unless forced by work constraints.
I stopped using Apples in 1993 after 6 years use, it was very good but didn’t have the software I needed.

I could fully understand anyone giving up Apple in ’93, I guess that was the Gil Amelio period, horrible beige boxes that did nothing particularly well, not sure when it was but they did have a half decent docking laptop with a track ball and the motorola chip they were using I think was technically still ahead of whatever ’86 series pc’s were running, I can’t remember it was a long time and lots of techy changes since then, it wasn’t until the Blueberry iMac that they really turned the corner, wish I’d bought shares back then.

Another funny story as a coincidence, I recently met the former owner of computer warehouse who was the biggest Mac dealer back then, he’s just entered the bike business, has bought Velorution in London and is getting into electric bikes, small world Macusers from back then.