duirdh: Point is, (for the OP) just ride your **** bike..

Wouldn’t hurt for you and Brant to also follow this advice.

We’re all different mate. That’s what makes the world interesting.

Some folks like to leave design to the designers and just ride the finished product. Others like to try and understand why a bike feels the way it does.

Live and let live.

Point is, (for the OP) just ride your **** bike..

Wouldn’t hurt for you and Brant to also follow this advice.

Personally I’d rather that those who design frames thought about it as well as rode their bikes (and probably did a lot of thinking before, during and after bike rides).

Trail matters most when riding rough ground at speed – it matters far less when hitting and landing big jumps and matters nought when you’re in the air.

Hand forward offset vs steering axis (stem length minus bar backsweep) gives a self-centreing effect from the rider, so shortening stems reduces that effect counterbalancing the increase in self-centreing from the wheel when you increase the trail.

Riding my BMX I notice how you can have much bigger steering angles whilst still going in a roughly straight line, compared to my MTB. Presumably this is due to the smaller contact patch of the small high pressure tyre allowing much larger scrub angles?

Already been out for a couple of hours this morning thanks 🙂 I don’t see what your problem is with people wanting a discussion about the finer points of bike design and handling, if it doesn’t interest you, or you don’t think it matters – don’t post.

Nowt wrong with trying to understand why Sam, Brant et al take certain elements into account when designing a frame is there? Its also one of the more interesting threads as we’re getting input from those who know what they’re talking about rather than the usual finger in the air guesswork.

Discussion does interest me Sam, Reading absolute bollocks not so much, (yes, that does include you chief)

Gotama, for Brant, it’s 99% sales.. Sam seems to genuinely want to progress in his particular slant on how his bikes ride.

I have set of these. They have a cock in the dropout (and two rake options)

…that is all.

Perhaps that is the case but maybe, just maybe they both also like contributing to something which they’re obviously keenly interested in. As a byproduct of posting insightful comments regarding design, Sam to use your example, will increase the public respect for the Singular brand and hopefully along with it sales. As a swift owner i certainly appreciate the thought he’s put into the frame. Same goes for Brant really. I’m trying to bodge together a fat front in the style of the Jones for a frame that’s probably not suited to it and the fork rake of 55mm on the On One fatty, which matches the Jones, piqued my interest. Question was asked and answered which has potentially added more food for thought. To be honest i would rather pay beers/cash etc to someone that knows what they’re doing to have a look at the frame i propose using and tell me if its going handle like a pig but that’s besides the point. Your presumably unqualified hissy fits about other comments and vitriol towards designers don’t really help anyone though do they?

blimey, the vitriol is strong in duirdh this morning.

Has the art of thinking for ones self truly died?

Has the art of thinking for ones self truly died?

Is it thinking that led to this?

Wouldn’t hurt for you and Brant to also follow this advice.

?

And if we really want to muddy the waters, maybe should also consider how the bike works as a whole r.e. saddle position, weight distribution between the wheels, chainstay length etc…..

I’ve got my own views and handbuilt them into frames I’m very happy with (e.g. 69 deg head sagged on a 100mm mid-rake fork or 70 rigid on a 55mm rake, 16″ chainstays etc). Unfortunately too busy at work to get dragged deep into this discussion 🙂

The art of listening to someone who knows what they’re talking about, is clearly dead.

I found these two vids an interesting watch:

Brant and Sam have both designed and sold bikes successfully, that others like to ride. I think their thoughts on the matter hold more weight than most…

Agreed hippy

Some angry puppies on here this morning 😉

I guess my one off-topic post was a little disengenuous and rather pointless in a subject I’m quite interested in. I’d also like to say, I’m not trying to pick holes but am interested in your point of view.

@Sam

I have read in a number of places that due to the low weight of a bicycles front wheel (as opposed to something like a motorcycle) the gyroscopic effect was negligible and that it only really affects (perhaps) bicycles while airborne? Do you think differently to this?

The greater gyroscopic effect and longer thinner contact patch (more pneumatic trail) of a 29″ wheel requires less trail for equivalent steering response, all else being equal.

I’m so glad I brought BMX’s into this, and amazed it was taken seriously.

Isn’t part of the reason for slacker angles with suspension about the way the bike will handle the horizontal component of hitting obstacles with the front wheel? And don’t bigger wheels make these forces less prevalent?