If you ride a steel hardtail, what made you choose it over Ali/carbon,ti etc. What do you like/ dislike about it? What are the differences between the materials?

I chose a steel H/T (Dialled PA) because of the design and the fact I wanted to support a small local business run by what seems to be an enthusiastic and hepful guy.

I’ve found that choice of forks, wheels, tyres and to a lesser extent bars/seatposts make more difference to the ‘feel’ of a bike than the choice of frame material and I think the design is more important than the material and that good frames can be made from any material.

However, I’ve not ridden the same frame in different materials so can’t specifically compare the properties of titanium, steel, aluminium or composite…..

…but, steel is real 😀

Nice ride feel. Not that other materials can’t be made to ride like that, but they tend not to be.

There’s elements of understatement and nostalgia too, also NOT buying the latest thing that will be “improved” and out of date next year.

I bet most high end steel ht owners are middle class and 30+

I owned a Kinesis Pha5e Al HT it was STIFF!! So stiff that it rode really well when you wanted it loved how it was but then I tried Steel on a 456 and just the removal of the trail buzz and that little give made all the difference and really helped when my back was bad

Aly – I like a stif flex free frame. Having said that, I loved my Dave Yates back in the day so go figure!

I sold my carbon race bike last year and bought a steel Singular Hummingbird – the race bike was nice, fast and light – but i wanted durability, a bike that will last.

However the primary reason for buying the hummingbird for me was the geometry, i wont go into it to much but the hummingbird is 96’r (29″ front wheel and 26″ rear), which can also be run with sus forks and 26″ wheels. this means that the top tube is a little longer than a standard 26″ hardtail. I’m 5.10″ an like to ride smaller, 16″ bikes but have found that they are always to short for proper xc rides so a medium hummingbird was the answer.

As well as a standard rear mech mount, it also has a EBB, which you dont see on bikes made from other materials. This means i can run it singlespeed or with an internal hubgear (alifine 11 as it is now).

Like hilldoger, i like the fact singular are a small UK based firm, the owner, Sam, is very helpful and has great customer service – a facebook page which he must check every dayand responds to questions, hes very much a ‘face of the company’ and this helps. It feels like when you buy one of his bikes you buy into a family of owners – when ever i see an other singular owner out on the trail we always stop and have a chat – i’ve never had that with any other bike. Its bit like owning a mini – other mini owners wave at you when you go past.

As for ride, it is different to the carbon bike – not better or worse just different. its very quick on the clibms when i put the power down, but its just not as ‘springy’ as the carbon bike.

Now as for downsides, the only one i can think of is weight. My bike gained 2lbs by changeing the frame, this obviously is the main advantage of a crabon bike. But, thats the only disadvantage i can think of. You may be able to argue that steel bieks get effected by rust, but with good maintanance i dont think thats a case that can be argued..

monkeyboyjc, what makes you think a carbon frame won’t last 20 years?

Just realised recently that all my mtbs are steel – it’s certainly not deliberate and I’d happily have alu/Ti/carbon instead.

The main reasons I’ve got them is that they’re good value, I tend not to break them (which I’ve done to several Alu frames after 2-3 years) and it just happens that the frames I wanted had steel frames.

i ride steel because eveyone on this forum says you have to if you want to be a “real” mountainbiker

😉

Nice ride feel. Not that other materials can’t be made to ride like that, but they tend not to be.

There’s elements of understatement and nostalgia too, also NOT buying the latest thing that will be “improved” and out of date next year.

I bet most high end steel ht owners are middle class and 30+

Totally agree. I also think it can be a bit of a culture thing (like anything bike related really).

I’m middle class (though not over 30!) and have had a couple of steel hardtails. I enjoyed them, particularly the 853 as there wasn’t as much weight penalty, but when I tried an alu ht (admittedly a women specific one with ‘lighter tubing’), I realised that it was just as comfortable for me…

I had though steel was more ‘forgiving’ and ‘springy’, but at my weight, I don’t think I ever put enough force in to actually get those ride characteristics. Of course, with my hubby (who’s twice my weight) it’s a different story as he was clearly flexing his steel frame…

But yeah, for me, I realised there’s no advantage in the ride characteristic and although I love many of the designs and the whole small UK company thing, being such a lightweight, it’s just not worth the weight penalty. (Plus Kinesis are a great UK company who’s customer service is ace and who have a couple of brilliant women’s specific frames, so I’m happy!)

The main reasons I’ve got them is that they’re good value, I tend not to break them (which I’ve done to several Alu frames after 2-3 years)

Eeek, really?! 😯 Just how many alu frames have you snapped then Clubber?! Were they only 2-3 years old? Or just that old to you? I’m not worried, it’s just interesting! 🙂

I like the look of skinny tubes.

Well you’ve met me – I’m not exactly small so they’ve tended to lead a fairly hard life. I have snapped several alu frames – and fwiw a couple of steel ones too…

Age 2-3 years though all either road bikes or full sus mtbs.

For me it was the whole steel package.
It’s unique ride characteristics.
Price.
Infinately rebuildable/repairable and cheap to re paint.
Tough, or at least they let you know before failing.
Aesthetics.

Sold my last steel frame when I went back to racing and lost 1.5lb straight away.

Never really found carbon a worthwhile option off road, alloy has been just as good – talking racing purposes here.

As for Ti could never be bothered with it, any values it has are lost in the price IMO. And I don’t buy into the bike for life thing.

I like boingy bikes – and there ain’t many of them in steel!

Well you’ve met me – I’m not exactly small so they’ve tended to lead a fairly hard life. I have snapped several alu frames – and fwiw a couple of steel ones too…

Age 2-3 years though all either road bikes or full sus mtbs.

Fair enough! Comforted to know they’re either road or full-suss! I haven’t heard of that many alu hts snapping, thankfully!

If you ride a steel hardtail, what made you choose it over Ali/carbon,ti etc. What do you like/ dislike about it? What are the differences between the materials?

i chose a steel blue pig over the aluminium mmmbop (how many ‘m’s?) because steel is harder, and so more durable.

my bikes often get racked up on the back, or in the back, of cars, wedged up tight against other bikes.

bikes are quite good at scratching the hell out of other bikes, i can live with paint scratches, but i’ve seen many deep gouges in aluminium frame tubes, i like a frame that can stand up for itself in the scratchy world of pedal pins and chainrings, etc.

ride quality? – my road bike is steel, and it’s lovely, but on my mtb i like big tyres and bouncy forks, i don’t think i need much frame-flex.

my pig might just be the heaviest hardtail frame i’ve ever owned, but it’s also the best, by miles, especially on technical climbs.

My hardtail is steel. My previous hardtail was Al (mid 90s marin nail trail).

The alu frame had a fantastic responsiveness – Every little bit of power you put in went straight to the rear wheel, and the back end followed exactly where you wanted it to go. However, it was very buzzy and harsh – it had a big diameter seatpost (ie pretty stiff) and took its toll on my rear end.

The steel frame, although not a spindly, lithe xc frame, is more forgiving and more comfortable. I like the ride feel more for the sort of riding I do.

On long, smooth, hardpack trails an Al frame can feel amazing. On rougher, rockier stuff, steel is more forgiving.

On rougher, rockier stuff, steel is more forgiving.

Only some steel frames. None of mine are particularly forgiving. It’s a myth that all (or even most) steel frames are springy. IME, it’s only the more expensive and thin tubed ones that really offer anything more than a talking point benefit.

EDIT – just realised that I have broken an alu mtb hardtail frame! My Pace RC303 but loads of those broke – more a design fault than anything else IMO. And FWIW, I reckon the Pace was more compliant if anything than the steel hardtail that replaced it…

Because I’m middle class and over 30yrs old. I had to as it’s in my tittle deeds to my suburban home.

I’ve had several steel HTs, one titanium, one carbon, and a couple of alloy ones.

I’ve snapped/broken more steel than anything else, but then I’ve had more of them.

Anyone who thinks there’s a big difference in ride or durability due solely to frame material is living in cloud-cuckoo land

🙂

Too true PP, it’s all frame this, frame that, but the biggest absorber of trail buzz/vibration/comfort is the tyres. By a mile.

I’ve got a steel HT, because it looked nice and was cheap. I’ve got a Carbon HT because it looks nice and was cheap. The only reason I don’t have two Carbon HTs is that it would be weird to have two bikes the same, one SS, one geared. The steel one rides a bit different, due to TT length and geometry, but is 3lbs heavier FFS!

Love both though.

have recently swapped my 10 anthem x2 fs bike for my new 11 charge duster mid.nothing wrong with the anthem (was fantastic),was partly cost of servicing,but mostly wanted to go back to a simpler type of bike again (i started off on a dawes ascent 501 tubed fully rigid back in 1988.then progressed up to a 1992 marin eldridge grade bike (awesome bike!) 😀 i have owned a few bikes through the years (2002 cannondale f800 alu ht,loved it!) also a few specialized full sus bikes (as well as an s works carbon ht frame/swapped parts over to it from a full sus)have been very happy with almost all of them. since seeing charge bikes though,from when they came out,i must admit to having wanted to go back to a steel ht again.since seeing my current bike (on tinternet,looking at pics of it e.t.c) i thought why not.i can honestly say that i am not regretting my decision for a moment.i just love how it feels to ride (as i do not live/ride anywhere very technical) also how it looks as well 😉 will be sticking with steel from now on 😀

I got my steel 456 ebb prototype because I wanted a frame with an ebb for a low maintenance build I had in mind and some fella was selling it.

Was an easy choice as I had an inbred and liked it and had read here enough stuff that I didn’t think I’d be suddenly hating the ride, added bonus is that the frame is a little bit different.

The inbred I got because I’d snapped a FS and brant sold me it at crash replacement price because he was drunk and felt sorry for me.

I’m not a good enough rider to be able to tell you how much the frame bends or owt, I just get on my bike and have a laugh.

I have only ever owned steel frames. I tend to keep my bikes a long time (unless they are stolen; gits) my current bike is a Cove Handjob which I have had since 2005 and I hope to have it for a long time to come. Longevity is important.

The ride quality is good but geometry is the most important feature which obviously isn’t material specific.

I also like to make major purchases on products made in the Western hemisphere (the Cove was made in Canada then) so that limits material choice to steel & Ti.

I had been riding ali for year (mainly old school Cannondale and Santa Cruz) and in 2000 bought a steel Kona Singlespeed and just loved it.

So a few years later I had a frame custom made in 853, it is gorgeous (fillet brazed), timeless and just plain lovely. I would do it again, though I would also consider Ti – but harder if not impossible to get British made (I have a Burls CX – thats fab – but russian made)

I reckon the Pace was more compliant if anything than the steel hardtail that replaced it…

Really???

I’ve got a 305 and that is so stiff that you feel every tyre nobble

My only current steel framed bike is an old early 90s Columbus ELO framed road bike.

A real thing of beauty (in my eyes), but not light for a roadie, and it always takes a while to get used to the ride.

Geometry is very steep, so handling tends towards scary sharp… but when used to it it does feel almost lithe and fluid.

PeterPoddy – Member
I’ve had several steel HTs, one titanium, one carbon, and a couple of alloy ones.

I’ve snapped/broken more steel than anything else, but then I’ve had more of them.

*Anyone who thinks there’s a big difference in ride or durability due solely to frame material is living in cloud-cuckoo land

I’ve owned various types of all 4 materials too (I need to count but probs 30+)

Of course one can say this* but it misses the point – carbon and alloy frames tend to be built light and stiff, high-end steel & ti twangy, so it’s fair to say that certain frame materials tend to ride in certain ways.

Tyres may well absorb more shock than frames but different frames DO feel discernably different – even if that only matters in the rider’s head, it still matters.

I got a 456 as it was cheap and the design and geometry suit how and where and when I ride.

Another Singular fan here.

Reason for going to steel – had 2 x Gary Fisher RIG 29er SS (Alu frames), in quick succession – snapped the frames at the top/seat tube junction within 12 months of use. When the 3rd frame was supplied under warranty, that went straight on ebay. The Singular Swift steel frame is much more durable, available in a very large size which I wanted (nearly 22″ seat tube!) and has EBB for singlespeed/hubgear. The ride to me does appear to be much less buzzy than Alu.

Imagine a musicians steel tuning fork, how twangy that becomes when bumped against a hard surface – that’s how I would describe steel frames, without the buzzing noise of course! 😉 Probably a pretty cr@p analagy but hope you get the drift……

How left field is that!

cos i’m a tart! but also, it can be very cheap to buy – carbon and ti are just unrealistic for me. for many years i’ve also been drawn to the idea of a frame that can be welded by almost anyone with a blow torch – and i’ve always fancied toruing in places far removed from welders who can do aluminium!

carbon and alloy frames tend to be built light and stiff, high-end steel & ti twangy, so it’s fair to say that certain frame materials tend to ride in certain ways.

Re-read that bit and make a mental note of how you contradict yourself….

🙂

monkeyboyjc, what makes you think a carbon frame won’t last 20 years?

well it was 3 years old and there were signs of delaminating at the dropout junctions and on one section of the down tube — it was a 1400g ‘race’ carbon frame and about 4/5 yrs out of date buy todays standards.

I’m not saying i’d not buy another carbon frame or that steel is better than other frame materials, just that for my current needs carbon doesn’t suit me and steel does.

However if you were buying a frame to last 20 yrs i bet carbon (or Ali) wouldnt be your 1st choice either – and steel, possibly ti would.

There’s elements of understatement and nostalgia too, also NOT buying the latest thing that will be “improved” and out of date next year.

I bet most high end steel ht owners are middle class and 30+

totally agree – im in my early 30’s – its defiantly the ‘mid life crisis’ of mtb….

PP I must need more coffee…how?

skyhigh_71 – Member
Another Singular fan here.

Reason for going to steel – had 2 x Gary Fisher RIG 29er SS (Alu frames), in quick succession – snapped the frames at the top/seat tube junction within 12 months of use. When the 3rd frame was supplied under warranty, that went straight on ebay. The Singular Swift steel frame is much more durable,

If that’s a comment on alloy frames, it’s well known those Rigs all snapped there!

I’m 30+ and middle class.

But I bought mine when I was 21. Had my Cannondale Beast of the East nicked, and with some money saved up from summer jobs, walked into Recycle in Penge where there was a 1 year old, mint condition Dekerf Generation for about half the price it would cost new. Exactly the same setup that MBUK had reviewed it in a few months previously, lime green Z2 bombers, LX, Suntour thumbies. It looked flippin’ fantastic, a bloody good deal, and I was probably swayed by the MBUK review as well: “Does anyone actually need a rear triangle this strong? Probably not, but it’s nice to know it’s there.” “The Dekerf is like a faithful fountain pen ocompared to any number of alu ballpoints”

Loved the way it rode, felt like it was smoothing things out, kept urging me to click up a gear or two and ride faster and harder.

I’ve changed a lot on it (thumbies and front mech are the only survivors) respray, ovalised the headtube and had it repaired and reinforced. It’s due for another respray and I’m torn between getting it discyfied and keeping it as is.

I’ve ridden bikes that have been a better at some things, but as a cross country bike, it’s still ace. It does feel like a faithful old fountain pen.

And it’s all about xc anyway, isn’t it? 🙂

I like the fact that it’s quite easy, and not too costly to find a frame builder to put in a new tube on a steel frame, should you break it. It worked well for me when my Thorn busted, got my bike back again!

Oh, and I like the look of skinny tubes!

totally agree – im in my early 30’s – its defiantly the ‘mid life crisis’ of mtb….

Really? I see it as the opposite – cannot be bothered with constantly moving trends etc. I used to change by bike yearly, maybe ever two. I have ridden my current steel ss for 6 now and no plans to change.

Agree with you ericemel, could be a bit of a mid-life crisis thing or just knowing what you want. My Thorn is now six years old – I did buy that for my 40th though! 🙂

i’m old money aristocracy and I ride steel exclusively – I thought Al was just for the masses 🙂